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Re: Waves Application Framework Update

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Herby Vojčík

Re: Waves Application Framework Update

Ken Utting wrote:
> carefully. I wasn't aware of your Trapped data binder and I'll
> definitely take a closer look at it. Have you been planning on updating
> it? Do you already have something that does data validation? That's a

Updated it to work in current Amber.

See https://lolg.it/herby/trapped, there are links to try it as well as
the repo itself.

Herby

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Ken Utting

Re: Waves Application Framework Update

Thanks, Siemen. My post was partly to announce a second beta of Waves, and partly to reply to Herby's response to my initial release. You can view that thread here. There's been no other communication between us.

I'm glad you took a look at Waves. Do you use HTML with Amber?

Regards,

Ken

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 3:38 AM, Siemen Baader <[hidden email]> wrote:

Very interesting! Did you communicate off-list, Herby and Ken? I haven't seen Waves or your discussion on the Amber list before.

Very nice that you work with HTML in files Ken, I'm interested in that too because I use dedicated HTML builder software.

cheers
Siemen

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Ken Utting <[hidden email]> wrote:
Herby,
Thanks for taking the time to look at Waves and provide such a thoughtful response.

Regarding Silk vs HTML, I think its similar to the difference of opinions over JSX; some React folks love it, some don't, but either way the framework supports it. And just to clarify, Waves does not favor either HTML or Silk as the default; view methods just return a promise that resolves either to an instance of WavesFormatHtml or WavesFormatSilk. Most of the framework and demo code resolves to WavesFormatHtml, because that is my preference, but it is just as easy to go the other way. In the latest version of Waves, the page footer is now constructed using Silk rather than HTML. I think its cool that both can be intermixed on the page. And if there was a way to load Silk from disk, like your snippets, then the framework could easily support that as well.

If there is anything else I can do to strengthen support for Silk in Waves, I'd be happy to provide it. I did read your article on Silk, which is where I derived my Silk code from, as well as Richard's article that pointed to it.

I hadn't heard of leviroutes before, so I took a look at it based on your response, and I agree its pretty minimal. I think that, even though it is easy to talk to JavaScript libraries in Amber, there is strength in bringing the router into Smalltalk. I also think, as you suggest, there is power to be found in incorporating a router within a more complete platform. The new release of Waves includes a whole set of powerful new features in the router, including redirection, route and feature guards, and the ability to have multiple route sets injected on a page.

I agree that Angular's two-way binding, although still supported, is no longer the preferred approach. But I think this is mostly due to people being unhappy about the digest cycle's negative impacts on performance, especially on complex pages. My version of data binding has no digest cycle (its triggered only by page load, input element changes and explicit calls to the binder). It is extremely simple-minded, it only handles standard HTML elements for input, it is easily modified by subclassing WavesDataBinder, and it can be ignored if you want. That said, this is an area of Waves that needs to be fleshed out more carefully. I wasn't aware of your Trapped data binder and I'll definitely take a closer look at it. Have you been planning on updating it? Do you already have something that does data validation? That's a related area that I need to focus on soon.

I've published a new version of Waves today, and more will follow. The new version incorporates SCSS into the build process, provides support for page-specific stylesheets, and has the enhancements to the router that I mentioned above. I have a website in mind that I want to build, and Waves will be the foundation for it. My target is to build my site by next August. I won't consider Waves to be out of Beta until that site is complete. Over the course of that time, I know that much will change about Waves. Thanks for helping to shape its future. And many many thanks, Herby, for keeping the flame alive. It is so much fun to be programming in Smalltalk again.

The new version of Waves is at https://waves-hgypvdrmfv.now.sh. Note that this is different from the URL for the previous version. Also, I'll mention that due to the (lame but free) way it is hosted, refreshing the page works only if you're at the home page.

Regards,
Ken

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