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Re: [squeak-dev] Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

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Re: [squeak-dev] Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Chris Muller-3
You showed us this earlier in the week -- and the feedback then was,
"voice-over, please."  When the music started I hoped perhaps you were
going to sing it to us.  :)

It's nice demo, but so far I've only seen the components that are IN
Spoon -- I am interested in seeing an OUTPUT of Spoon.  Anything to
take me to the next-level of understanding and confidence about it..




On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi--
>
>     This is a fly-through of my next presentation about Spoon[1]. I
> hope to present it at the next Pharo conference, 24-25 May 2012 in
> Lille, France.
>
>     http://tinyurl.com/8y2x3rp (wordpress.com)
>
>
>     thanks for any feedback!
>
> -C
>
> [1] http://netjam.org/spoon
>
> --
> Craig Latta
> www.netjam.org/resume
> +31 6 2757 7177
> + 1 415 287 3547
>
>

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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

ccrraaiigg

Hi Chris--

> You showed us this earlier in the week -- and the feedback then was,
> "voice-over, please."  When the music started I hoped perhaps you were
> going to sing it to us.  :)

     Heh. Yeah, all this version adds is the ability to watch it
passively on YouTube. I'm editing a voice-over now for a future version.

> It's nice demo, but so far I've only seen the components that are IN
> Spoon -- I am interested in seeing an OUTPUT of Spoon.  Anything to
> take me to the next-level of understanding and confidence about it..

     Sure; the next movie I'm making is basically the real presentation,
with lots of departures from the slides into the live system. I expect
there will be versions of different lengths for various attention spans,
and the full version will be about an hour.


     thanks again,

-C

--
Craig Latta
www.netjam.org/resume
+31   6 2757 7177
+ 1 415  287 3547



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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Facundo Vozzi


On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 5:08 PM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris--
>
>> You showed us this earlier in the week -- and the feedback then was,
>> "voice-over, please."  When the music started I hoped perhaps you were
>> going to sing it to us.  :)
>
>     Heh. Yeah, all this version adds is the ability to watch it
> passively on YouTube. I'm editing a voice-over now for a future version.
>
>> It's nice demo, but so far I've only seen the components that are IN
>> Spoon -- I am interested in seeing an OUTPUT of Spoon.  Anything to
>> take me to the next-level of understanding and confidence about it..
>
>     Sure; the next movie I'm making is basically the real presentation,
> with lots of departures from the slides into the live system. I expect
> there will be versions of different lengths for various attention spans,
> and the full version will be about an hour.
>

I look forward to the 1 hour presentation :-)



me too
 
Facu


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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Guido Stepken
In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg
Hi, Craig!

Concerning your Spoon demo ...

*nobody* around me has Apple. Would you please make your demo
installable on Windows or better Linux?

tnx in advance ...

Guido

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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

ccrraaiigg

Hi Guido--

> *nobody* around me has Apple. Would you please make your demo
> installable on Windows or better Linux?

     Do you mean the Prezi presentation? That runs on MacOS and Windows
(run prezi.exe).


     thanks,

-C

--
Craig Latta
www.netjam.org/resume
+31   6 2757 7177
+ 1 415  287 3547



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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Guido Stepken
Am 29.02.2012 21:55, schrieb Craig Latta:
> Hi Guido--
>
>> *nobody* around me has Apple. Would you please make your demo
>> installable on Windows or better Linux?
>       Do you mean the Prezi presentation? That runs on MacOS and Windows
> (run prezi.exe).
>

No, meant: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15188004/spoon/Spoon%203%20alpha%203.zip

tnx, Guido

>       thanks,
>
> -C
>
> --
> Craig Latta
> www.netjam.org/resume
> +31   6 2757 7177
> + 1 415  287 3547
>
>
>


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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

ccrraaiigg

> No, meant: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15188004/spoon
> /Spoon%203%20alpha%203.zip

     That's a standard "all-in-one" Squeak release, the bits for all
platforms are there.


-C

--
Craig Latta
www.netjam.org/resume
+31   6 2757 7177
+ 1 415  287 3547



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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Guido Stepken

People like 1-klick Images ... Setup.exe ... No raw ZIP file, no additional installation of unzip, no shell, no "cd" no ".bat"

If you want to really make people try software, make it as comfortable, as possible for them. Even the 1-klick-Image of Pharo is no such one, its a 7 or 8 mousklick Image. When it is advertised as 1-klick, i expect that to be "one klick" if it is advertized "stable" i expect that to be stable, rockstable! Damn! "No half way things!". Lasy attitude by the programmer directly shows up in the install routine.

When i see such a lousy packed piece of software i just expect crap quality in it, sorry!

Take EToys Setup.exe, replace the image, re-sfx again. Is it so hard??? Same with Pharo.

Tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken

Am 01.03.2012 05:42 schrieb "Craig Latta" <[hidden email]>:

> No, meant: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15188004/spoon
> /Spoon%203%20alpha%203.zip

    That's a standard "all-in-one" Squeak release, the bits for all
platforms are there.


-C

--
Craig Latta
www.netjam.org/resume
<a href="tel:%2B31%20%20%206%202757%207177" value="+31627577177">+31 6 2757 7177
<a href="tel:%2B%201%20415%20%20287%203547" value="+14152873547">+ 1 415 287 3547



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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Lawson English-2
On 3/1/12 12:29 AM, Guido Stepken wrote:

>
> People like 1-klick Images ... Setup.exe ... No raw ZIP file, no
> additional installation of unzip, no shell, no "cd" no ".bat"
>
> If you want to really make people try software, make it as
> comfortable, as possible for them. Even the 1-klick-Image of Pharo is
> no such one, its a 7 or 8 mousklick Image. When it is advertised as
> 1-klick, i expect that to be "one klick" if it is advertized "stable"
> i expect that to be stable, rockstable! Damn! "No half way things!".
> Lasy attitude by the programmer directly shows up in the install routine.
>
>
It is certainly true that more people are willing to try a package if it
is easier to install, but it is a chicken and egg thing:  developers
underestimate how difficult it is for others to work with what they have
done (since they've been working on it for months or even years), and
without feedback from people who have actually tried to get something to
work, developers have a hard time making things easier for everyone else.


L.

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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

carlo.t
In reply to this post by Guido Stepken
Hi Craig

Guido's email was meant to read: Thanks for sharing your work! 



On 01 Mar 2012, at 9:29 AM, Guido Stepken wrote:

People like 1-klick Images ... Setup.exe ... No raw ZIP file, no additional installation of unzip, no shell, no "cd" no ".bat"

If you want to really make people try software, make it as comfortable, as possible for them. Even the 1-klick-Image of Pharo is no such one, its a 7 or 8 mousklick Image. When it is advertised as 1-klick, i expect that to be "one klick" if it is advertized "stable" i expect that to be stable, rockstable! Damn! "No half way things!". Lasy attitude by the programmer directly shows up in the install routine.

When i see such a lousy packed piece of software i just expect crap quality in it, sorry!

Take EToys Setup.exe, replace the image, re-sfx again. Is it so hard??? Same with Pharo.

Tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken

Am 01.03.2012 05:42 schrieb "Craig Latta" <[hidden email]>:

> No, meant: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15188004/spoon
> /Spoon%203%20alpha%203.zip

    That's a standard "all-in-one" Squeak release, the bits for all
platforms are there.


-C

--
Craig Latta
www.netjam.org/resume
<a href="tel:%2B31%20%20%206%202757%207177" value="+31627577177">+31 6 2757 7177
<a href="tel:%2B%201%20415%20%20287%203547" value="+14152873547">+ 1 415 287 3547




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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Tobias Pape
In reply to this post by Guido Stepken

Am 2012-03-01 um 08:29 schrieb Guido Stepken:

> People like 1-klick Images ... Setup.exe ... No raw ZIP file, no additional installation of unzip, no shell, no "cd" no ".bat"

What else do you see there?

>
> If you want to really make people try software, make it as comfortable, as possible for them. Even the 1-klick-Image of Pharo is no such one, its a 7 or 8 mousklick Image. When it is advertised as 1-klick, i expect that to be "one klick" if it is advertized "stable" i expect that to be stable, rockstable! Damn! "No half way things!". Lasy attitude by the programmer directly shows up in the install routine.
>
> When i see such a lousy packed piece of software i just expect crap quality in it, sorry!
>
> Take EToys Setup.exe, replace the image, re-sfx again. Is it so hard??? Same with Pharo.
>
> Tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken


m(



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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Igor Stasenko
In reply to this post by carlo.t
On 1 March 2012 10:48, Carlo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Craig
>
> Guido's email was meant to read: Thanks for sharing your work!
>
Yes.

>
> On 01 Mar 2012, at 9:29 AM, Guido Stepken wrote:
>
> People like 1-klick Images ... Setup.exe ... No raw ZIP file, no additional
> installation of unzip, no shell, no "cd" no ".bat"
>
> If you want to really make people try software, make it as comfortable, as
> possible for them. Even the 1-klick-Image of Pharo is no such one, its a 7
> or 8 mousklick Image. When it is advertised as 1-klick, i expect that to be
> "one klick" if it is advertized "stable" i expect that to be stable,
> rockstable! Damn! "No half way things!". Lasy attitude by the programmer
> directly shows up in the install routine.
>
You're not in supermarket. You are on pharo-development list. Here the
half-way is norm. And "stable" and "complete"
happens once per year , when new version released, but in fact those
terms are not applicable as well.

If you would know what "continuous development" is, you would never
put "half way", because every release you
get will be characterized as a "half way", because it is only a
milestone we put, after a lot of things done, but there's always more
to be done.
We're not cooking cakes here. We're not selling TV-sets here.

> When i see such a lousy packed piece of software i just expect crap quality
> in it, sorry!
>
> Take EToys Setup.exe, replace the image, re-sfx again. Is it so hard??? Same
> with Pharo.
>
> Tnx 4 understanding, Guido Stepken
>
> Am 01.03.2012 05:42 schrieb "Craig Latta" <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>
>> > No, meant: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15188004/spoon
>> > /Spoon%203%20alpha%203.zip
>>
>>     That's a standard "all-in-one" Squeak release, the bits for all
>> platforms are there.
>>
>>
>> -C
>>
>> --
>> Craig Latta
>> www.netjam.org/resume
>> +31 6 2757 7177
>> + 1 415 287 3547
>>
>>
>>
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.

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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Guido Stepken

> You're not in supermarket. You are on pharo-development list.

Exactly.

Perhaps a auction might help, where Pharo users meet programmers. A "feature wanted" as offer, Smalltalk programmers may secretly offer "their implementation" for €$ (2nd lowest offer wins, see 'swiss auction') and as soon the money is collected (open sponsor bid), the programmer is contracted to implement.

Pharo group just helps implementing a bit, being as well payed, different models may apply.

I have no problem to pay for features that i want to have implemented, but i simply refuse to sponsor Pharo development, not knowing what for and when it will be ready. With open bids for development (anonymous bids for implementation) it will be fun for companies to continuously raise their offer to see a feature implemented soon. The more important it is for their business, the more and the quicker they spend. AND - its cheap, cause cost divide up among investors.

There are lots of companies waiting, who - rather sooner as later - would leave commercial platforms costing them several hundred bucks a year per client. But as long as the Pharo group does not offer them a instrument to steer and control Pharo development, nothing will happen.

Develop the development process!

regards, Guido Stepken

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Re: Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

Schwab,Wilhelm K
Dollars in the hundreds are hardly a deterrent to business, nor enough to make developers here jump through hoops that involve huge amounts of work.





From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Guido Stepken [[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 6:20 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Spoon presentation 2012-02-24

> You're not in supermarket. You are on pharo-development list.

Exactly.

Perhaps a auction might help, where Pharo users meet programmers. A "feature wanted" as offer, Smalltalk programmers may secretly offer "their implementation" for €$ (2nd lowest offer wins, see 'swiss auction') and as soon the money is collected (open sponsor bid), the programmer is contracted to implement.

Pharo group just helps implementing a bit, being as well payed, different models may apply.

I have no problem to pay for features that i want to have implemented, but i simply refuse to sponsor Pharo development, not knowing what for and when it will be ready. With open bids for development (anonymous bids for implementation) it will be fun for companies to continuously raise their offer to see a feature implemented soon. The more important it is for their business, the more and the quicker they spend. AND - its cheap, cause cost divide up among investors.

There are lots of companies waiting, who - rather sooner as later - would leave commercial platforms costing them several hundred bucks a year per client. But as long as the Pharo group does not offer them a instrument to steer and control Pharo development, nothing will happen.

Develop the development process!

regards, Guido Stepken

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