Refactoring tools
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Hi,
is there actually a way to use Pharo refactoring tools (at least rename class, move method) for Amber code ? Or maybe there's a port in Amber IDE ? Cheers, Laurent
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On 11/12/2012 10:28 AM, laurent laffont wrote:
> Hi, > > is there actually a way to use Pharo refactoring tools (at least rename > class, move method) for Amber code ? I doubt it. Kaliningrad doesn't store Amber code as "proper code" in a Pharo image - but as fat string literals. > Or maybe there's a port in Amber IDE ? Nope. Not that I know of, and I would guess a HUGE undertaking as Amber is a bit different on meta side of things. But don't trust me on this, Nicolas can probably give better answer given his new work which I haven't looked much at yet. regards, Göran |
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In reply to this post by laurent laffont
Hey Laurent,
we should think in doing this kind of thing at the Amber side. Actually sounds like a future feature for Helios BTW you can contribute if you want to On Nov 12, 2012, at 7:28 AM, laurent laffont wrote: Hi, |
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In reply to this post by gokr
Hi! It is planned to port the refactoring enine to Amber, but we're not there yet :) Nico Göran Krampe <[hidden email]> writes: > On 11/12/2012 10:28 AM, laurent laffont wrote: >> Hi, >> >> is there actually a way to use Pharo refactoring tools (at least rename >> class, move method) for Amber code ? > > I doubt it. Kaliningrad doesn't store Amber code as "proper code" in a > Pharo image - but as fat string literals. > >> Or maybe there's a port in Amber IDE ? > > Nope. Not that I know of, and I would guess a HUGE undertaking as Amber > is a bit different on meta side of things. > > But don't trust me on this, Nicolas can probably give better answer > given his new work which I haven't looked much at yet. > > regards, Göran -- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr |
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Hi! I don't see any real sense in copying code to amber ... Why can't Pharo be amber's SDK? regards, Guido Stepken Am 12.11.2012 15:52 schrieb "Nicolas Petton" <[hidden email]>:
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Guido Stepken wrote: > Hi! > > I don't see any real sense in copying code to amber ... Why can't Pharo > be amber's SDK? I agree. In the sense Janko Mivšek probably envisioned it a few weeks ago on twitter, too: develop in Pharo, run in Amber. But, incompatible kernel classes probably make this very hard goal... maybe if Amber could have (self-contained) subset of Pharo, classes could have <restring: amber> or something in the definition, so that they don't use (read: get warnings when attempt to use) classes outside the subset. Herby > regards, Guido Stepken > > Am 12.11.2012 15:52 schrieb "Nicolas Petton" <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>>: > > > Hi! > > It is planned to port the refactoring enine to Amber, but we're not > there yet :) > > Nico > > Göran Krampe <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> writes: > > > On 11/12/2012 10:28 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> is there actually a way to use Pharo refactoring tools (at least > rename > >> class, move method) for Amber code ? > > > > I doubt it. Kaliningrad doesn't store Amber code as "proper code" > in a > > Pharo image - but as fat string literals. > > > >> Or maybe there's a port in Amber IDE ? > > > > Nope. Not that I know of, and I would guess a HUGE undertaking as > Amber > > is a bit different on meta side of things. > > > > But don't trust me on this, Nicolas can probably give better answer > > given his new work which I haven't looked much at yet. > > > > regards, Göran > > -- > Nicolas Petton > http://nicolas-petton.fr > |
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In reply to this post by Guido Stepken
Why can't Pharo be amber's SDK?
Great question. A strong reason I can think of is to keep Amber de-coupled from particular server-side counterparts.
if you do not have it coupled with a specific server, you could put in the server: 1. ruby 2. Pharo smalltalk (I'm using this for a couple of apps and it's great!) 3. cincom smalltalk 4. gemstonw 5. nodejs 6. nodejs + some amber framework 7. other stacks? (erlang, python, etc) anything. But if you couple it to a particular smalltalk, you'll make it way more closed/niche/unknown than necessary makes sense? On Nov 12, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Guido Stepken wrote:
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sebastian wrote: > Why can't Pharo be amber's SDK? > > Great question. > > A strong reason I can think of is to keep Amber de-coupled from > particular server-side counterparts. But that seems like misunderstanding. At least I saw it without any _server-side_ counterparts coupling. Just use Pharo as development environment which can work with amber code. All of the below then can be used (dev Pharo being the client, the tech from below as the server). > if you *do not* have it coupled with a specific server, you could put in > the server: > > 1. ruby > 2. Pharo smalltalk (I'm using this for a couple of apps and it's great!) > 3. cincom smalltalk > 4. gemstonw > 5. nodejs > 6. nodejs + some amber framework > 7. other stacks? (erlang, python, etc) > > anything. > > But if you couple it to a particular smalltalk, you'll make it way more > closed/niche/unknown than necessary > > makes sense? > > sebastian <https://about.me/sebastianconcept> Herby |
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On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:
I suppose ideally there would be a compatibility layer between Pharo & Amber so we could load refactoring-tools on Amber, no copy-paste, ... maybe I'm dreaming too much.
I don't see how we can develop in Pharo & debug interactive widgets in the web browser. Or maybe some remote tools would allow to interact with the web browser / Amber from Pharo....
Laurent
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In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík
I would love to have access to the VASmalltalk tools and ENVY code
repository, but there's one little thing that might stop any attempt to bring Amber development to any kind of Smalltalk environment. How do you handle saving non existing classes? Amber can do that! Big hacks in the compilers will be needed and what is the sense of Amber, if you can't see you changes within the browser? That's exaclty the power of Amber. Debug javascript in runtime. But,... really handy might indeed be an environment were one can host Amber from a Smalltalk server and add Seaside or Aida components into play, without having to host two servers. A WASeasideAmberAdaptor so to speak. Sebastian |
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In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík
On Nov 12, 4:07 pm, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Guido Stepken wrote: > > I don't see any real sense in copying code to amber ... Why can't Pharo > > be amber's SDK? > I agree. In the sense Janko Mivšek probably envisioned it a few weeks > ago on twitter, too: develop in Pharo, run in Amber. Me and Nico brainstormed on IRC a possibility to mix Pharo and Amber Smalltalk in the same methods, or to have one method in normal Pharo Smalltalk, another in Amber. Both in Pharo development environment. To develop on Pharo in the sense of Pharo tools and run in Amber being in browsers or on the server. One interim possibility would be to develop not only on Pharo as 'SDK' but also in Pharo Smalltalk, then compile to Amber Smalltalk and send to the browser. Something similar I'm thinking for a while for Aida - to 'emit' Amber code from otherwise regular Aida code, written in classical Smalltalk. > But, incompatible kernel classes probably make this very hard goal... > maybe if Amber could have (self-contained) subset of Pharo, classes > could have <restring: amber> or something in the definition, so that > they don't use (read: get warnings when attempt to use) classes outside > the subset. This is probably the biggest obstacle, yes. But I still think it is a way worth to go. Maybe by modifying Amber to be more classic Smalltalk friendly even more? Best regards Janko > > Herby > > > regards, Guido Stepken > > > Am 12.11.2012 15:52 schrieb "Nicolas Petton" <[hidden email] > > <mailto:[hidden email]>>: > > > Hi! > > > It is planned to port the refactoring enine to Amber, but we're not > > there yet :) > > > Nico > > > Göran Krampe <[hidden email] > > <mailto:[hidden email]>> writes: > > > > On 11/12/2012 10:28 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > > >> Hi, > > > >> is there actually a way to use Pharo refactoring tools (at least > > rename > > >> class, move method) for Amber code ? > > > > I doubt it. Kaliningrad doesn't store Amber code as "proper code" > > in a > > > Pharo image - but as fat string literals. > > > >> Or maybe there's a port in Amber IDE ? > > > > Nope. Not that I know of, and I would guess a HUGE undertaking as > > Amber > > > is a bit different on meta side of things. > > > > But don't trust me on this, Nicolas can probably give better answer > > > given his new work which I haven't looked much at yet. > > > > regards, Göran > > > -- > > Nicolas Petton > > http://nicolas-petton.fr |
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In reply to this post by Guido Stepken
There's a project I started with Benjamin during ESUG that takes this approach. It's using Pharo's Nautilus and communicates live with Amber through websocket to enable browsing Amber from a Pharo environment. Currently browsing is working as well as compiling from Pharo IIRC. There's also a very basic workspace. The next step would be to enable inspecting of Amber object (we could then inspect live JavaScript objects remotely for free from Pharo... miam!). Using the refactoring engine of Pharo could also be possible, etc, etc. I don't have enough time to keep working on it right now (maybe Ben is willing to put some effort into it, I don't know), but if someone wants to give the project some love, I could show what's working and how. Cheers, Nico Guido Stepken <[hidden email]> writes: > Hi! > > I don't see any real sense in copying code to amber ... Why can't > Pharo be amber's SDK? > > regards, Guido Stepken Am 12.11.2012 15:52 schrieb "Nicolas Petton" > <[hidden email]>: > >> >> Hi! >> >> It is planned to port the refactoring enine to Amber, but we're not >> there yet :) >> >> Nico >> >> Göran Krampe <[hidden email]> writes: >> >> > On 11/12/2012 10:28 AM, laurent laffont wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> is there actually a way to use Pharo refactoring tools (at least >> >> rename class, move method) for Amber code ? >> > >> > I doubt it. Kaliningrad doesn't store Amber code as "proper code" >> > in a Pharo image - but as fat string literals. >> > >> >> Or maybe there's a port in Amber IDE ? >> > >> > Nope. Not that I know of, and I would guess a HUGE undertaking as >> > Amber is a bit different on meta side of things. >> > >> > But don't trust me on this, Nicolas can probably give better answer >> > given his new work which I haven't looked much at yet. >> > >> > regards, Göran >> >> -- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr >> -- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr |
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Hi Nicolas, I`m interested in this project. Could you give more information about it? i would like to work on it.
Thanks, Rustem.
вторник, 13 ноября 2012 г., 1:27:23 UTC+3 пользователь nicolas petton написал:
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Excellent! Sure I can :) What about a Skype call? Nico -- XumuK <[hidden email]> writes: > Hi Nicolas, I`m interested in this project. Could you give more information > about it? i would like to work on it. > > Thanks, Rustem. > > вторник, 13 ноября 2012 г., 1:27:23 UTC+3 пользователь nicolas petton > написал: >> >> >> There's a project I started with Benjamin during ESUG that takes this >> approach. It's using Pharo's Nautilus and communicates live with Amber >> through websocket to enable browsing Amber from a Pharo environment. >> >> Currently browsing is working as well as compiling from Pharo >> IIRC. There's also a very basic workspace. The next step would be to >> enable inspecting of Amber object (we could then inspect live JavaScript >> objects remotely for free from Pharo... miam!). Using the refactoring >> engine of Pharo could also be possible, etc, etc. >> >> I don't have enough time to keep working on it right now (maybe Ben is >> willing to put some effort into it, I don't know), but if someone wants >> to give the project some love, I could show what's working and how. >> >> Cheers, Nico >> >> Guido Stepken <[hidden email] <javascript:>> writes: >> >> > Hi! >> > >> > I don't see any real sense in copying code to amber ... Why can't >> > Pharo be amber's SDK? >> > >> > regards, Guido Stepken Am 12.11.2012 15:52 schrieb "Nicolas Petton" >> > <[hidden email] <javascript:>>: >> > >> >> >> >> Hi! >> >> >> >> It is planned to port the refactoring enine to Amber, but we're not >> >> there yet :) >> >> >> >> Nico >> >> >> >> Göran Krampe <[hidden email] <javascript:>> writes: >> >> >> >> > On 11/12/2012 10:28 AM, laurent laffont wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> >> >> is there actually a way to use Pharo refactoring tools (at least >> >> >> rename class, move method) for Amber code ? >> >> > >> >> > I doubt it. Kaliningrad doesn't store Amber code as "proper code" >> >> > in a Pharo image - but as fat string literals. >> >> > >> >> >> Or maybe there's a port in Amber IDE ? >> >> > >> >> > Nope. Not that I know of, and I would guess a HUGE undertaking as >> >> > Amber is a bit different on meta side of things. >> >> > >> >> > But don't trust me on this, Nicolas can probably give better answer >> >> > given his new work which I haven't looked much at yet. >> >> > >> >> > regards, Göran >> >> >> >> -- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr >> >> >> >> -- >> Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr >> -- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr |
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Let`s try today in evening after 22.00 UTC+3
четверг, 29 ноября 2012 г., 22:55:40 UTC+3 пользователь nicolas petton написал:
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