Repository, COM servers, Image size

Hello,

Does source code management solution for teamwork using Dolphin, 4.x, 5.x
exists? The one could be trusted, tested in not small projects (say 5 person
and 2-3 years), may recommended by vendor (Object Arts). May be CVS could be
used for that?

I’m playing with Dolphin and find it “ideologically perfect Access”. But
does it scale for business applications? For example app written with 4GL
(Gupta) consists of 400k lines of code. What would be size of dolphin image
for such app? Is it possible to run Dolphin app on Citrix? Gradually,
introduction of Smalltalk could possible if Dolphin can produce in process
COM servers (can it?)

Thank you,

Vaidotas Didzbalis

Vaidas,

> Does source code management solution for teamwork using Dolphin, 4.x, 5.x
> exists? The one could be trusted, tested in not small projects (say 5
person
> and 2-3 years), may recommended by vendor (Object Arts). May be CVS could
be
> used for that?

There are at least two source code management schemes available for Dolphin:

1) Use Gorisek's STS (Source Tracking System). See www.gorisek.com. This may
well be your best option since it provides excellent features almost
identical to IBM Smalltalks code management system (ENVY) but is thousands
of dollars cheaper. We have not used this solution here at Object Arts
(other than for testing) but maybe some existing users can comment on its
effectiveness. One thing I think is true is that STS will not be effective
for remote working where developers expect to connect to the source
repository using a WAN.

2) Here at OA we use a combination of Dolphin's PAX source file format and
Microsoft SourceSafe for the repository. We have been using this solution
for 6 years now with teams of up to 6 people. It is suitable for WAN working
but you will find that SourceSafe needs another product
(www.sourceoffsite.com) to make it effective in this environment. I would
not attempt to use this solution with teams larger than 6 people (ten
maximum). The way that one handles some SourceSafe idiosyncracies is a
little weird (like after each checkin one has to label the project with the
machine name) but one soon gets used to it. This solution is not as powerful
as STS but the source is kept in a "standard" (well Microsoft standard)
database which will allow other files to be archive alongside the Smalltalk
code. I'm not sure whether STS will allow this.

3) The Dolphin PAX file solution was designed to be connected to other file
based source code systems (like CVS). We haven't tested with CVS (well we
did at one point but found that getting CVS working was a bit too much for
our non-unix brains) but maybe someone else out there has such a solution
working.

> I'm playing with Dolphin and find it "ideologically perfect Access". But
> does it scale for business applications? For example app written with 4GL
> (Gupta) consists of 400k lines of code. What would be size of dolphin
image
> for such app?

I would actually expect that Dolphin would scale better than Gupta. With
true Object Orientation and, especially, the fine grained methods in
Smalltalk one typically finds that it is easier to (re)factor an application
so less code is duplicated. I'm not really that familiar with Gupta but I
can say that Dolphin was originally developed (back in 1994) by a company
called Intuitive Systems to replace their current 4GL system, IS/2. IS/2 was
a competitor to Gupta and we were pretty confident that the large IS/2 apps
would be replaceable by Dolphin.

(folr those interested, history records that Intuitive Systems dropped
Dolphin in favour of Java in 1996 and Object Arts took over the development
of the product. Interestingly, the Java project ran for around two years and
was eventually junked without ever coming to fruitition; the Java code was
then replaced by a combination of VB and C++)

Here are some confidence building "facts" for you. The current development
image that I am using is 8.13Mb and when running requires about 16Mb of
memory. The number of lines of Smalltalk code is 265Kloc. So in the
worstcase scenario a 400Kloc app might require twice those figures. However,
I strongly suspect that one line of ST would be more than equivalent to one
line of Gupta and I would also imagine that the coding would be more
efficient (based on better reuse etc).

> Is it possible to run Dolphin app on Citrix?

I should think so. I have often performed remote Dolphin development using
the Remote Desktop product that comes with Windows XP. Indeed I have found
it as fast to develop on my laptop using this connection via ADSL to a
fairly fast server machine than to develop locally on the laptop. The Remote
Desktop  is a Citric derivative I believe.

>Gradually, introduction of Smalltalk could possible if Dolphin can produce
in process
> COM servers (can it?)

Dolphin 5 can now support the creation of inproc COM servers.

Best Regards,

Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
http://www.object-arts.com
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"Andy Bower" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:aoe9la$li7v7$1@ID-> 3) The Dolphin PAX file solution was designed to be
connected to other file
> based source code systems (like CVS). We haven't tested with CVS (well we
> did at one point but found that getting CVS working was a bit too much for
> our non-unix brains) but maybe someone else out there has such a solution
> working.

I have been using Dolphin+CVS for one smaller project (as a test case) and I
am quite happy how it works. For me it is particulary handy since I have CVS
repository hosted on some server on the internet, and I can work on several
machines, and get my snapshot quickly.

Aside from beeing able to get the sources from practically anywhere, hosting
the cvs server also relives one from administering it. I use ssh to protect
the access to the cvs server, and as a CVS client TortoiseCVS
(http://www.tortoisecvs.org) . Tortoise is very simple to use since it
integrates cvs commands into explorer shell.

In the future I plan to use this setup with a larger project (2-3 developers
and much larger app).

One thing I am not completely sure is how meaningfully this setup can handle
massive refactorings. CVS is a bit touchy on adding and removing files, and
some refactrongs can have such results. Also moving a method from one class
to another, can make diffing single files less usefull than it is in
traditional environment.

With all those reservations, I find the pax+cvs to be a great aid.

rush

Thank you,

For us there is no need to develop over Internet. But code refactoring in
concurrent development is a must. I wonder how it is possible
technologically with CVS?

Have anyone else using Gorisek (www.gorisek.com) solutions?

Does Dolphin a success/fail story exists?

Does Dolphin generate COM visual inproc servers or out proc COM servers?

Vaidas

Vaidas,

> For us there is no need to develop over Internet. But code refactoring in
> concurrent development is a must. I wonder how it is possible
> technologically with CVS?

It certainly is possible to use a file-based SCCS and refactor (we do it
in-house with SourceSafe as I said) but it will be easier with somethings
like STS.

> Does Dolphin generate COM visual inproc servers or out proc COM servers?

There is no framework support for creating visual components (either in or
out of process). You could write this yourself but it would be a fair amount
of work. Writing non-visual components is very straightforward though.

Best Regards,

Andy Bower
Dolphin Support
http://www.object-arts.com
---
Are you trying too hard?
http://www.object-arts.com/Relax.htm
---