Roadmap
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Hi,
I've opened a small wiki entry in my gst repository; I propose to everybody to look at the roadmap of gst. It's time to move on and define a clear vision of gst. I've added few ideas I've in my mind; first I want a new website. Some unused tools need to be removed (java, blox). I would like to introduce a simple model view controler framework for a 3.4 release. My ideas are simple I would like to focus on few simple stuffs: ui (mvp for gtk), networking (seaside3, pop, imap, http), scripting. If you've others ideas put them in the wiki !!! https://github.com/GwenaelCasaccio/smalltalk/wiki/Roadmap Gwen _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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Il 15/01/2013 18:55, Gwenaël Casaccio ha scritto:
> Hi, > > I've opened a small wiki entry in my gst repository; > I propose to everybody to look at the roadmap of > gst. It's time to move on and define a clear vision of gst. > > I've added few ideas I've in my mind; first I want a new > website. Some unused tools need to be removed (java, > blox). I would like to introduce a simple model view controler > framework for a 3.4 release. My ideas are simple I would like > to focus on few simple stuffs: ui (mvp for gtk), networking (seaside3, > pop, imap, http), scripting. > > If you've others ideas put them in the wiki !!! > > https://github.com/GwenaelCasaccio/smalltalk/wiki/Roadmap Please use the smalltalk.gnu.org website instead or the etherpad that Holger set up (https://etherpad.mozilla.org/bRWJnDHiUu). Paolo _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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Hi guys,
Any interest to port Aida/Web framework to GST? Cuis guys are just doing that, so in parallel I can help you with a port too. Of course if there will be some maintainer of that port for a long-term ... Best regards Janko Dne 16. 01. 2013 11:29, piše Paolo Bonzini: > Il 15/01/2013 18:55, Gwenaël Casaccio ha scritto: >> Hi, >> >> I've opened a small wiki entry in my gst repository; >> I propose to everybody to look at the roadmap of >> gst. It's time to move on and define a clear vision of gst. >> >> I've added few ideas I've in my mind; first I want a new >> website. Some unused tools need to be removed (java, >> blox). I would like to introduce a simple model view controler >> framework for a 3.4 release. My ideas are simple I would like >> to focus on few simple stuffs: ui (mvp for gtk), networking (seaside3, >> pop, imap, http), scripting. >> >> If you've others ideas put them in the wiki !!! >> >> https://github.com/GwenaelCasaccio/smalltalk/wiki/Roadmap > > Please use the smalltalk.gnu.org website instead or the etherpad that > Holger set up (https://etherpad.mozilla.org/bRWJnDHiUu). > > Paolo -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 01:08:11PM +0100, Janko Mivšek wrote:
> Hi guys, > > Any interest to port Aida/Web framework to GST? Cuis guys are just doing > that, so in parallel I can help you with a port too. Of course if there > will be some maintainer of that port for a long-term ... Hi, I tried to download a MCZ file to check how much work it would be. What I am interested in is how to do you maintain the different versions? E.g. if someone submits a patch does it need to be submitted for ACME VM? How do you make sure that all versions work equal? holger _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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Hi Holger,
Dne 16. 01. 2013 20:51, piše Holger Hans Peter Freyther: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 01:08:11PM +0100, Janko Mivšek wrote: >> Any interest to port Aida/Web framework to GST? Cuis guys are just doing >> that, so in parallel I can help you with a port too. Of course if there >> will be some maintainer of that port for a long-term ... > I tried to download a MCZ file to check how much work it would be. What I > am interested in is how to do you maintain the different versions? E.g. if > someone submits a patch does it need to be submitted for ACME VM? How do you > make sure that all versions work equal? Aida code is pretty portable, that is, if during porting some nonportable code is found, then a least common denominator between dialects is tried to be first found. If not found then the dialect specific method is marked as such in method comment, like "Squeak specific". There are not much such methods. To found them you have a special browser (on VW for now) to find and browse them. Currently main development is continuous on VisualWorks and continuously production tested, then a Squeak/Pharo port is done and released together with VW as public release. Other ports like Dolphin is done later by a dialect specific maintainer. So, a patch would be submitted on GST, later ported to VW and production tested, then down-ported to all other dialects. This is how is a current procedure but this can be changed of course. Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:38:44PM +0100, Janko Mivšek wrote:
> So, a patch would be submitted on GST, later ported to VW and production > tested, then down-ported to all other dialects. This is how is a current > procedure but this can be changed of course. Is this porting a manual process or do you have tools to port from Pharo FileOut to other dialects? And could you please point me to the current MCZ file of Aida? http://mc.aidaweb.si/ is currently not serving any files. holger _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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Hi Holger,
Dne 17. 01. 2013 08:34, piše Holger Hans Peter Freyther: > On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:38:44PM +0100, Janko Mivšek wrote: > >> So, a patch would be submitted on GST, later ported to VW and production >> tested, then down-ported to all other dialects. This is how is a current >> procedure but this can be changed of course. > > Is this porting a manual process or do you have tools to port from Pharo > FileOut to other dialects? And could you please point me to the current > MCZ file of Aida? http://mc.aidaweb.si/ is currently not serving any files. We moved now to SmalltalkHub, team Aida. You can find a project at: Aida project: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Aida/Aida Aida team: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Aida (I just updated this info on http://www.aidaweb.si/community) too. Procedure to port a new version from VW to Squeak/Pharo is briefly as follows: - Fileout the differences from VW (parcel FileOut30 loaded, VW30 (not Squeak) fileout format!) - from File browser in Squeak/Pharo open this file as Code - now manually load method by method while checking parallely the code changes in very nice VW diff browser. Manually do also class changes and any method removals. This takes me few hours per release of work. Much more work is to prepare an actual release, so I think it is not worth to automatize this procedure much more. But user level testing (by tools like Selenium) would help much here. Together with Continuous integration with Jenkins (as we already have for Pharo). Hope this clarifies the porting procedure a bit :) Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek
Il 16/01/2013 22:38, Janko Mivšek ha scritto:
>>> >> Any interest to port Aida/Web framework to GST? Cuis guys are just doing >>> >> that, so in parallel I can help you with a port too. Of course if there >>> >> will be some maintainer of that port for a long-term ... >> > I tried to download a MCZ file to check how much work it would be. What I >> > am interested in is how to do you maintain the different versions? E.g. if >> > someone submits a patch does it need to be submitted for ACME VM? How do you >> > make sure that all versions work equal? > Aida code is pretty portable, that is, if during porting some > nonportable code is found, then a least common denominator between > dialects is tried to be first found. If not found then the dialect > specific method is marked as such in method comment, like "Squeak > specific". There are not much such methods. To found them you have a > special browser (on VW for now) to find and browse them. > > Currently main development is continuous on VisualWorks and continuously > production tested, then a Squeak/Pharo port is done and released > together with VW as public release. Other ports like Dolphin is done > later by a dialect specific maintainer. > > So, a patch would be submitted on GST, later ported to VW and production > tested, then down-ported to all other dialects. This is how is a current > procedure but this can be changed of course. Honestly, I'd be reluctant to do that because I am still waiting for my Swazoo improvements (both portability fixes and performance improvements) to be committed, after 2 years---even though I did the porting to Pharo myself and submitted nice changesets. Paolo _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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Hi Paolo,
Dne 17. 01. 2013 14:48, piše Paolo Bonzini: >> So, a patch would be submitted on GST, later ported to VW and production >> tested, then down-ported to all other dialects. This is how is a current >> procedure but this can be changed of course. > > Honestly, I'd be reluctant to do that because I am still waiting for my > Swazoo improvements (both portability fixes and performance > improvements) to be committed, after 2 years---even though I did the > porting to Pharo myself and submitted nice changesets. "Don't touch if it works" mentality is in works here, I admit :) That is, Swazoo works, and it was spent quite some time in optimizations by me before. Including input/output streaming support. To include your patches would need quite some time carefully integrating, testing etc.. Are they improve Swazoo so much to be worth spend that time? Not that I won't integrate them, but I really don't have much time these days. That's why only important things like WebSocket support were integrated recently. Janko -- Janko Mivšek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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Il 17/01/2013 14:58, Janko Mivšek ha scritto:
> Hi Paolo, > > Dne 17. 01. 2013 14:48, piše Paolo Bonzini: > >>> So, a patch would be submitted on GST, later ported to VW and production >>> tested, then down-ported to all other dialects. This is how is a current >>> procedure but this can be changed of course. >> >> Honestly, I'd be reluctant to do that because I am still waiting for my >> Swazoo improvements (both portability fixes and performance >> improvements) to be committed, after 2 years---even though I did the >> porting to Pharo myself and submitted nice changesets. > > "Don't touch if it works" mentality is in works here, I admit :) That > is, Swazoo works, and it was spent quite some time in optimizations by > me before. For some of them, the point is that GNU Smalltalk doesn't have the same (Smalltalk-80) implementation of streams as Squeak and VW, so SwazooBuffer almost needed a rewrite. I also made it portable and faster. And when I sent it, it was against top of tree, now it requires a refresh and I don't have time to do it. Streams are very efficient in GNU Smalltalk, so some problems may come up that aren't visible in other dialects. http://smalltalk.gnu.org/blog/bonzinip/optimizing-http-header-manipulation-part-2 "11% of the time is spent converting strings to uppercase. And another 8% is spent iterating through a dictionary. Neither thing seems very cunning; though in defense of the Swazoo authors, these 11+8=19% represented a meager 3% before my optimizations on streams." Also, the other functionality (SCGI) is used by Nicolas Petton. He's using all of it in production. Paolo > Including input/output streaming support. To include your > patches would need quite some time carefully integrating, testing etc.. > Are they improve Swazoo so much to be worth spend that time? Not that I > won't integrate them, but I really don't have much time these days. > That's why only important things like WebSocket support were integrated > recently. > > Janko > _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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In reply to this post by Janko Mivšek
On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:54:40PM +0100, Janko Mivšek wrote:
Dear Janko, > Aida project: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Aida/Aida > Aida team: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Aida I tried to load the code but the snapshot.st inside your mcz looks corrupt. I looked at AdvancedSearch>>#preparedCriteria but after the ifTrue: something weird happens with the encoding? is that on purpose? I don't know if 0x0000000D 0x00000009 is a valid BOM. holger _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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Hi Holger,
Dne 27. 01. 2013 16:21, piše Holger Hans Peter Freyther: > On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:54:40PM +0100, Janko Mivšek wrote: > > Dear Janko, > > >> Aida project: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Aida/Aida >> Aida team: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Aida > > I tried to load the code but the snapshot.st inside your mcz looks > corrupt. I looked at AdvancedSearch>>#preparedCriteria but after the > ifTrue: something weird happens with the encoding? is that on purpose? > I don't know if 0x0000000D 0x00000009 is a valid BOM. Hmm, this version for StHub loaded in Pharo without problems last time I tried. Also the #preparedCriteria don't contain any non-ASCII character as I can see, nor the Can you try to load this .mcz in Pharo first to check it? Janko _______________________________________________ help-smalltalk mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk |
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