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Running really old VMs on the Mac

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Stephen Travis Pope

Running really old VMs on the Mac

Hello all,

I'm trying to start up a VisualWorks 2.5 VM under Mac Classic in order to use an image from 1997.

The VM comes up and asks for the file, then churns for a moment and exits (no console messages or anything).

The image file seems OK (I can see the "exec st80VM" header if I look at is with a text editor).

Does anyone have any ideas, or any experience with running old VMs under Mac Classic?

...any reply appreciated...

stp

Stephen Travis Pope -- Santa Barbara, California, USA

http://create.ucsb.edu/~stp http://HeavenEverywhere.com http://FASTLabInc.com

Martin McClure

Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac

Stephen Travis Pope wrote:

>
> Hello all,
>
> I'm trying to start up a VisualWorks 2.5 VM under Mac Classic in order
> to use an image from 1997.
>
> The VM comes up and asks for the file, then churns for a moment and
> exits (no console messages or anything).
>
> The image file seems OK (I can see the "exec st80VM" header if I look at
> is with a text editor).
>
> Does anyone have any ideas, or any experience with running old VMs under
> Mac Classic?
>
> ...any reply appreciated...

Hmm. If you need to run it on a Mac, an older Mac running an older OS
version might work better.

(Marginally relevant note: I've got an old Mac SE30. Every once in a
while I fire it up and run the old Apple Smalltalk, based on ST80
release 1. The GUI response is *amazingly* fast on that machine,
compared to what it was on the 512K Mac I originally ran it on. I
haven't been able to get that VM to run on any machine newer than the
SE30, probably because it expects the 9" 512 x 342 display.)

I know that the VW 2.5.2 Sparc Solaris VM runs on reasonably modern
versions of Solaris (2.8, possibly newer). If you have access to such a
VM and machine, I believe it should open a Mac image.

Good luck,

-Martin

Joseph Bacanskas-4

Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac

In reply to this post by Stephen Travis Pope

Hi Stephen:

On Feb 25, 2006, at 8:11 PM, Stephen Travis Pope wrote:

>
> Hello all,
>
> I'm trying to start up a VisualWorks 2.5 VM under Mac Classic in
> order to use an image from 1997.
>
> The VM comes up and asks for the file, then churns for a moment and
> exits (no console messages or anything).
>
> The image file seems OK (I can see the "exec st80VM" header if I
> look at is with a text editor).
>
> Does anyone have any ideas, or any experience with running old VMs
> under Mac Classic?
>
> ...any reply appreciated...
>
> stp

Here are several suggests:

The VW3.0 VMs will run the 2.5.2 image. It's much newer, try that,
but I don't think that will run with "Classic". If you don't have a
Solaris box handy as Martin suggests, try a x86 Linux box. I have
run VW3.0 on Linux. Make sure you limit the number of fonts visible
to VW, it's a know issue with VM headroom. Lastly, last time I
checked, W2K ran VW3.0. Try that option, too.

Cheers!!

>
> --
> Stephen Travis Pope -- Santa Barbara, California, USA
> http://create.ucsb.edu/~stp http://HeavenEverywhere.com
> http://FASTLabInc.com
>
>

Thanks!!
Joseph Bacanskas [|]
--- I use Smalltalk. My amp goes to eleven.

Roland Wagener

Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac

In reply to this post by Stephen Travis Pope

Hi Stephen

the oldest version I can run in the Classic environment is an
ObjectWorks\Smalltalk 4.1. This is a 68K VM running on the PowerPC
emulator, which is running in the Classic emulator. Its reasonable fast
on a 1GHz Powerbook G4 ;-)

All newer VMs shouldn't be a problem, unless they run into a font issue.
Josephs hint of trying the VW 3.0 VM is propably good, the 2.5 VM was
the first running on PowerPC, and there may have been issues with the
System 6.x to 7.x transition of the VM. Anyway, try an original image
first, because your target image might have trouble with DLLCC stuff
missing in your current environment!
If nothing helps, we at Georg Heeg still have _the_ G3 Powerbook where
the 3.0VM was build on ...

Anyway, good luck

Roland Wagener
--
Senior Consultant at Georg Heeg eK
VisualWorks Ambassador
phone: x49-231-9 75 99-0 fax: x49-231-9 75 99-20
email: [hidden email] www: http://www.heeg.de/~roland

Stephen Travis Pope schrieb:

Stephen Travis Pope

Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac

Hello all,

Thanks to all for the advice on running the VisualWorks 2.5 VM.

Do any of you have a VM 3.0 for windows that you could send me?

I have an old PC running Win2000 that's supposed to be able to run it...

...any assistance appreciated...

stp

--
Stephen Travis Pope -- Santa Barbara, California, USA
http://create.ucsb.edu/~stp http://HeavenEverywhere.com http://
FASTLabInc.com

Begin forwarded message:

> Resent-From: [hidden email]
> From: Joseph Bacanskas <[hidden email]>
> Date: February 26, 2006 10:27:56 AM PST
> To: vwnc List <[hidden email]>
> Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
> Subject: Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac
>
> Hi Stephen:
>
> On Feb 25, 2006, at 8:11 PM, Stephen Travis Pope wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I'm trying to start up a VisualWorks 2.5 VM under Mac Classic in
>> order to use an image from 1997.
>>
>> The VM comes up and asks for the file, then churns for a moment
>> and exits (no console messages or anything).
>>
>> The image file seems OK (I can see the "exec st80VM" header if I
>> look at is with a text editor).
>>
>> Does anyone have any ideas, or any experience with running old VMs
>> under Mac Classic?
>>
>> ...any reply appreciated...
>>
>> stp
>
> Here are several suggests:
>
> The VW3.0 VMs will run the 2.5.2 image. It's much newer, try that,
> but I don't think that will run with "Classic". If you don't have
> a Solaris box handy as Martin suggests, try a x86 Linux box. I
> have run VW3.0 on Linux. Make sure you limit the number of fonts
> visible to VW, it's a know issue with VM headroom. Lastly, last
> time I checked, W2K ran VW3.0. Try that option, too.
>
> Cheers!!
>
> Thanks!!
> Joseph Bacanskas [|]
> --- I use Smalltalk. My amp goes to eleven.

Steven Kelly

RE: Running really old VMs on the Mac

In reply to this post by Stephen Travis Pope

If you search Google for vw31c, you'll find one. I knew I'd seen one on
the net somewhere... Amusingly, the 3rd result is for our own product's
support pages, and indeed there is one there!

Steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Travis Pope [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 01 March 2006 19:44
> To: vwnc
> Cc: Stephen Travis Pope
> Subject: Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Thanks to all for the advice on running the VisualWorks 2.5 VM.
>
> Do any of you have a VM 3.0 for windows that you could send me?
>
> I have an old PC running Win2000 that's supposed to be able
> to run it...
>
> ...any assistance appreciated...
>
> stp
>
> --
> Stephen Travis Pope -- Santa Barbara, California, USA
> http://create.ucsb.edu/~stp http://HeavenEverywhere.com
> http://
> FASTLabInc.com
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > Resent-From: [hidden email]
> > From: Joseph Bacanskas <[hidden email]>
> > Date: February 26, 2006 10:27:56 AM PST
> > To: vwnc List <[hidden email]>
> > Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
> > Subject: Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac
> >
> > Hi Stephen:
> >
> > On Feb 25, 2006, at 8:11 PM, Stephen Travis Pope wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> I'm trying to start up a VisualWorks 2.5 VM under Mac Classic in
> >> order to use an image from 1997.
> >>
> >> The VM comes up and asks for the file, then churns for a moment
> >> and exits (no console messages or anything).
> >>
> >> The image file seems OK (I can see the "exec st80VM" header if I
> >> look at is with a text editor).
> >>
> >> Does anyone have any ideas, or any experience with running old VMs
> >> under Mac Classic?
> >>
> >> ...any reply appreciated...
> >>
> >> stp
> >
> > Here are several suggests:
> >
> > The VW3.0 VMs will run the 2.5.2 image. It's much newer, try that,
> > but I don't think that will run with "Classic". If you don't have
> > a Solaris box handy as Martin suggests, try a x86 Linux box. I
> > have run VW3.0 on Linux. Make sure you limit the number of fonts
> > visible to VW, it's a know issue with VM headroom. Lastly, last
> > time I checked, W2K ran VW3.0. Try that option, too.
> >
> > Cheers!!
> >
> > Thanks!!
> > Joseph Bacanskas [|]
> > --- I use Smalltalk. My amp goes to eleven.
>
>

Mark Pirogovsky-3

Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac

vw31nc may not help you - in the VW3.0 if your image was saved with with
the NC vm you can not open it with the commercial VM and vice versa, if
you image came from the commercial VM then you can't open it with the NC vm.

Another note: the VW 2.5.2 Vm runs under Win2k just as well.

-- Mark

Steven Kelly wrote:

> If you search Google for vw31c, you'll find one. I knew I'd seen one on
> the net somewhere... Amusingly, the 3rd result is for our own product's
> support pages, and indeed there is one there!
>
> Steve
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Stephen Travis Pope [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>Sent: 01 March 2006 19:44
>>To: vwnc
>>Cc: Stephen Travis Pope
>>Subject: Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac
>>
>>
>>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>Thanks to all for the advice on running the VisualWorks 2.5 VM.
>>
>>Do any of you have a VM 3.0 for windows that you could send me?
>>
>>I have an old PC running Win2000 that's supposed to be able
>>to run it...
>>
>>...any assistance appreciated...
>>
>>stp
>>
>>--
>> Stephen Travis Pope -- Santa Barbara, California, USA
>> http://create.ucsb.edu/~stp http://HeavenEverywhere.com
>> http://
>>FASTLabInc.com
>>
>>
>>Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>
>>>Resent-From: [hidden email]
>>>From: Joseph Bacanskas <[hidden email]>
>>>Date: February 26, 2006 10:27:56 AM PST
>>>To: vwnc List <[hidden email]>
>>>Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
>>>Subject: Re: Running really old VMs on the Mac
>>>
>>>Hi Stephen:
>>>
>>>On Feb 25, 2006, at 8:11 PM, Stephen Travis Pope wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hello all,
>>>>
>>>>I'm trying to start up a VisualWorks 2.5 VM under Mac Classic in
>>>>order to use an image from 1997.
>>>>
>>>>The VM comes up and asks for the file, then churns for a moment
>>>>and exits (no console messages or anything).
>>>>
>>>>The image file seems OK (I can see the "exec st80VM" header if I
>>>>look at is with a text editor).
>>>>
>>>>Does anyone have any ideas, or any experience with running old VMs
>>>>under Mac Classic?
>>>>
>>>>...any reply appreciated...
>>>>
>>>>stp
>>>
>>>Here are several suggests:
>>>
>>>The VW3.0 VMs will run the 2.5.2 image. It's much newer, try that,
>>>but I don't think that will run with "Classic". If you don't have
>>>a Solaris box handy as Martin suggests, try a x86 Linux box. I
>>>have run VW3.0 on Linux. Make sure you limit the number of fonts
>>>visible to VW, it's a know issue with VM headroom. Lastly, last
>>>time I checked, W2K ran VW3.0. Try that option, too.
>>>
>>>Cheers!!
>>>
>>>Thanks!!
>>>Joseph Bacanskas [|]
>>>--- I use Smalltalk. My amp goes to eleven.
>>
>>
>
>
>