Scamper revival
Locked
 
|
Hi, It's not stable, but it loads google :) Gofer new squeaksource: 'LaurentLSandbox';
package:'HTML'; package:'Scamper'; load.
Then: Scamper openOnUrl: 'http://www.google.com'. I suppose there's a technique to replace all _ by := Laurent Laffont _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
> I suppose there's a technique to replace all _ by :=
Yes, there is a transformation rule in the refactoring browser. Just run Code Critics. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote:
Cool. Thanks. Laurent Laffont
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
In reply to this post by laurent laffont
I would much
rather see a robust interface to an external browser, for two reasons: (1)
scamper was never terribly impressive; (2) Seaside testing.
Bill
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of laurent laffont Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:45 PM To: An open mailing list to discuss any topics related to an open-source Smalltalk Subject: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival Hi,
It's not stable, but it loads google :)
Gofer new
squeaksource:
'LaurentLSandbox';
package:'HTML';
package:'Scamper';
load.
Then:
Scamper openOnUrl: 'http://www.google.com'.
I suppose there's a technique to replace all _ by
:= Laurent Laffont _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
The goal is to use it for the new HelpSystem, to display images, layout easily, some colors.
For browsing the web it's crap. Laurent Laffont 2010/2/27 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
Just checking :)
In that case however, I would like to see a nice(r) way to construct
Polymorph interfaces. Dolphin's MVP framework is very powerful. One
thing that it does not seem to do well is allow domain objects to insert
themselves into a GUI; Seaside and Magritte have an advantage there. I
find Magritte a little too helpful, and #description *much* too helpful, meaning
that it does so much for me that I forget how things
work.
There is probably nothing to stop us from taking a little more
control over Magritte descriptions and containers, and IIRC, there is a
Polymorph version of Magritte (or is that just wishful thinking??). Rather
than write HTML to feed into what we all agree is a sub-optimal browser, I
suggest putting the energy into refining Smalltalk idioms to turn data into a
GUI using Polymorph. The end result should be better user interfaces all
around.
Bill
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of laurent laffont Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:47 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival For browsing the web it's crap.
Laurent Laffont 2010/2/27 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
_______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
2010/2/27 Schwab,Wilhelm K <[hidden email]>
I agree with these comments (don't know if the way to go is Polymorph being that I don't know it deeper) but as I also think that Magritte is a BIG help to write almost any sort of applications. I we could have a better (more productive) way of write desktop UIs then we can take over the win-linux.mac market :) I would try myself with my PasswordsPro application (currently in Dolphin). It would be nice to me port PasswordsPro to Pharo and sell it as a real desktop app (native in any operating system) and reuse the same model to have it on web also. Having a only one model, with UI in desktop and web will be really awesome, even when a lot of people may claim that is possible today, I'm not really convinced with complex applications. Cheers. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
Quick thought: WebKit plugin with Javascript language binding.
http://webkit.org/projects/javascript/index.html Consider the kind of system you could build with html 5 rendered UI. Interesting project: http://phonegap.com Sadly, I have zero time to work on things outside of paying work these days. On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:33 AM, Germán Arduino wrote: > I agree with these comments (don't know if the way to go is Polymorph being that I don't know it deeper) but as I also think that Magritte is a BIG help to write almost any sort of applications. > > I we could have a better (more productive) way of write desktop UIs then we can take over the win-linux.mac market :) I would try myself with my PasswordsPro application (currently in Dolphin). It would be nice to me port PasswordsPro to Pharo and sell it as a real desktop app (native in any operating system) and reuse the same model to have it on web also. > > Having a only one model, with UI in desktop and web will be really awesome, even when a lot of people may claim that is possible today, I'm not really convinced with complex applications. > > Cheers. > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
I'm in favor of options like this, but remain convinced that the more layers that appear between the ultimate end user software and the hardware, the worse performance will be. A while back I was taking the "Seaside is *not* all we need for a GUI" side of a debate and described my cash cow as "an etch-a-sketch with a type A personality" - got a good laugh when I ran across that a couple of years later. Picture users frantically banging on a tablet, selecting, poking and scribbling. Pardon my lack of vision, but there is no way in hell that HTML+CSS+JavaScript is going to keep up with it. I also have my doubts about our current vms in that respect, though Windows and its bloat would be out of the picture.
Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eagle Offshore Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:48 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival Quick thought: WebKit plugin with Javascript language binding. http://webkit.org/projects/javascript/index.html Consider the kind of system you could build with html 5 rendered UI. Interesting project: http://phonegap.com Sadly, I have zero time to work on things outside of paying work these days. On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:33 AM, Germán Arduino wrote: > I agree with these comments (don't know if the way to go is Polymorph being that I don't know it deeper) but as I also think that Magritte is a BIG help to write almost any sort of applications. > > I we could have a better (more productive) way of write desktop UIs then we can take over the win-linux.mac market :) I would try myself with my PasswordsPro application (currently in Dolphin). It would be nice to me port PasswordsPro to Pharo and sell it as a real desktop app (native in any operating system) and reuse the same model to have it on web also. > > Having a only one model, with UI in desktop and web will be really awesome, even when a lot of people may claim that is possible today, I'm not really convinced with complex applications. > > Cheers. > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
I wouldn't be so sure.
http://html5demos.com/ http://jqtouch.com/ On Feb 27, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > there is no way in hell that HTML+CSS+JavaScript is going to keep up _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
There is the further concern about the browser. It wastes screen space (which is at a premium) and adds weight and distracting functionality. There is something to be said for the a fat client app that does what it needs to do and nothing else.
-----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eagle Offshore Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:23 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival I wouldn't be so sure. http://html5demos.com/ http://jqtouch.com/ On Feb 27, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > there is no way in hell that HTML+CSS+JavaScript is going to keep up _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
In reply to this post by laurent laffont
First, I'm not using Squeak. Second, this is not the first time I've heard that xyz was going to wipe out Smalltalk's place in the world, and I doubt it will be the last.
Bill -----Original Message----- From: Eagle Offshore [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:09 AM To: Schwab,Wilhelm K Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival Then what are you doing with Squeak? :-) The browsers support offline development with local databases in HTML 5. This is here, now. They will replace squeak's mission in about another three years. Probably less. On Feb 28, 2010, at 12:04 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > There is the further concern about the browser. It wastes screen space (which is at a premium) and adds weight and distracting functionality. There is something to be said for the a fat client app that does what it needs to do and nothing else. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of > Eagle Offshore > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:23 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival > > I wouldn't be so sure. > > http://html5demos.com/ > http://jqtouch.com/ > > On Feb 27, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> there is no way in hell that HTML+CSS+JavaScript is going to keep up > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
Squeak - Pharo - same thing.
I didn't say it would wipe out Smalltalk's place in the world - I said it will fulfill its mission - which is one more level of marginalization. At this point, it is easier to write a portable desktop app in a webkit based browser than it is to write one in Pharo. On Mar 1, 2010, at 4:20 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > First, I'm not using Squeak. Second, this is not the first time I've heard that xyz was going to wipe out Smalltalk's place in the world, and I doubt it will be the last. > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eagle Offshore [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:09 AM > To: Schwab,Wilhelm K > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival > > Then what are you doing with Squeak? :-) The browsers support offline development with local databases in HTML 5. This is here, now. They will replace squeak's mission in about another three years. Probably less. > > On Feb 28, 2010, at 12:04 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> There is the further concern about the browser. It wastes screen space (which is at a premium) and adds weight and distracting functionality. There is something to be said for the a fat client app that does what it needs to do and nothing else. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of >> Eagle Offshore >> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:23 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival >> >> I wouldn't be so sure. >> >> http://html5demos.com/ >> http://jqtouch.com/ >> >> On Feb 27, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> there is no way in hell that HTML+CSS+JavaScript is going to keep up >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
Squeak != Pharo. We're happy to interact, but the mission statement is more than just words.
With respect to marginalization, I'm not writing portable web apps, which is exactly my point: web technologies have their purposes and limitations, and attempts to use them as some type of intergalactic-fix-all is probably going to work out poorly. Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Eagle Offshore Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:02 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival Squeak - Pharo - same thing. I didn't say it would wipe out Smalltalk's place in the world - I said it will fulfill its mission - which is one more level of marginalization. At this point, it is easier to write a portable desktop app in a webkit based browser than it is to write one in Pharo. On Mar 1, 2010, at 4:20 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > First, I'm not using Squeak. Second, this is not the first time I've heard that xyz was going to wipe out Smalltalk's place in the world, and I doubt it will be the last. > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eagle Offshore [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 12:09 AM > To: Schwab,Wilhelm K > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival > > Then what are you doing with Squeak? :-) The browsers support offline development with local databases in HTML 5. This is here, now. They will replace squeak's mission in about another three years. Probably less. > > On Feb 28, 2010, at 12:04 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> There is the further concern about the browser. It wastes screen space (which is at a premium) and adds weight and distracting functionality. There is something to be said for the a fat client app that does what it needs to do and nothing else. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of >> Eagle Offshore >> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:23 PM >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival >> >> I wouldn't be so sure. >> >> http://html5demos.com/ >> http://jqtouch.com/ >> >> On Feb 27, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> there is no way in hell that HTML+CSS+JavaScript is going to keep up >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
> web technologies have their purposes and limitations, and attempts
> to use them as some type of intergalactic-fix-all is probably going > to work out poorly. :-) -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
|
|
In reply to this post by Schwab,Wilhelm K
I have never bought into "make Smalltalk more like <insertBuzzword> and the world will like us" because things don't work that way. The analogies to US politics are biting - without going into details, it does not work there either.
The most recent "do it or else" was .Net. Before that, Java was the answer. Remember Object Linking and Embedding - the entire world was going to be components. DCOM is the answer, what's wrong with you? Fat clients, thin clients, Lotus Notes, VBA or bust!!! Now it's "The Cloud." Some of these things are actually useful for many tasks; most are good for _something_. If HTML 5 proves itself, we'll end up embracing it, but not because it will make people like us. People who want to find fault with anything that is not the latest hype-compliant technology will never run out of complaints to wave in our faces. The trick is to separate the truly worthy points from the talking points taken from glossy ads. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Eagle Offshore [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:42 PM To: Schwab,Wilhelm K Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Scamper revival I meant to keep my last comment off list. My bad. This one is also off list. I'm not talking web apps. I think you missed that. I'm talking about a platform for writing desktop apps. It happens to use widgets implemented using html and css with logic in javascript, but its not terribly different from a smalltalk environment with its own widget kit. I think Dan was a little early with lively kernel, but I think if he updated it for HTML 5 he'd find the world quite a bit more receptive. On Mar 2, 2010, at 2:34 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > 'm not writing portable web apps, which is exactly my point: web technologies have their purposes and limitations, and attempts to use them as some type of intergalactic-fix-all is probably going to work out poorly. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
«
Return to Pharo Smalltalk Developers
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |