Seaside 2.7

Hi

Now that Seaside 2.7 is about to be ported to VW and development of
Seaside 2.8 has started I thought I write a mail to summarize Seaside
2.7. The main goal of Seaside 2.7 was that Lukas does not have to tell
anyone to override #rendererClass when he goes to Krakau next week ;)

to sum up Seaside 2.7 brings:
- canvas renderer is default, the old renderer is deprecated
- new, canvas like header api
- file library
- some tools have been cleaned up
- new image map api (see WAScreenshot)
- many new elements including ruby
- #fixCallbackTemps an ugly hack upon an ugly hack that saves memory
- WARequestHandler refactoring
- WAAnchorTag >> #text: has been deprecated
- removed WATagBrush >> #tooltip:
- a deprecation api to make all these deprecations possible
- ability to open a debugger on the rendering stack of an element
- pretty printer fixes and improvements (including comments)
- cookie fixes
- convenience methods in WARequest
- WAListener (comet support)
- more stuff that I forgot about

some of this stuff has been backported to 2.6b1

If you upgrade from 2.6 you need to implement the following method in
all your components that don't use the canvas API

rendererClass
    ^WAHtmlRenderer

additionally after loading the code you need to

WAKom stop; startOn: 8080.
WAComponent allSubclassesDo: [ :each | each initialize ].

Cheers
Philippe
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Hi,

thank you for this mail, it's very interesting.

Is there a plan for 2.8? What are the features and enhancements you
are thinking about?

Bye

2007/2/25, Philippe Marschall <[hidden email]>:

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Damien Cassou
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> Is there a plan for 2.8? What are the features and enhancements you
> are thinking about?

Some of the things I have in mind are:

- remove deprecated code, such as the old renderer WAHtmlBuilder
- improve the way WATask is working (I have some ideas there)
- better customizability, e.g. custom expired handler for sessions
- optimizations, such as direct streaming of all output (not
necessarily directly to the socket, but certainly without too much
copying around)
- improve the concept of halos
- more tests? ;-)

Another thing is to get a new web site online, one with a Web 2.0
style and that looks better than the ones of our direct competitors.
The goal of the Web site would be to have a:

- up to date Web site where community members can add and edit text
- embeds Seaside news from the various blogs available
- show live examples of Seaside applications within the site
- provide a common patterns of Seaside application development
- maybe have an integrated change log and bug tracker

I would suggest to use Pier for that of course, but maybe there are
some other ideas? The eminent problem is the design. I think I already
asked twice in this list, but nobody replayed. So I ask again: Could
anybody propose a nice design (I only need the image, I can do the CSS
myself) or should we try to start collecting money to pay a graphic
designer? If nothing happens, seaside.st will simply not change ...

Cheers,
Lukas

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Hi Lukas,

thank you for your answer.

When you say

2007/2/25, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>:
> - improve the way WATask is working (I have some ideas there)


I thought you wanted to remove this completely. Did you change your mind ?


> Another thing is to get a new web site online, one with a Web 2.0
> style and that looks better than the ones of our direct competitors.
> The goal of the Web site would be to have a:


I think it's really important.

> - provide a common patterns of Seaside application development

This is really needed. They are a lot of possibility in Seaside and we
have to know which ones really work.


> I would suggest to use Pier for that of course, but maybe there are
> some other ideas? The eminent problem is the design. I think I already
> asked twice in this list, but nobody replayed. So I ask again: Could
> anybody propose a nice design (I only need the image, I can do the CSS
> myself) or should we try to start collecting money to pay a graphic
> designer? If nothing happens, seaside.st will simply not change ...

If there is no graphic designer, you might better do something that
you like and then ask the community for its opinion and wishes. The
design will then slowly improve. This is not the best solution
however. And after all, I really like the design of lukas-renggli.ch.

Bye

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> > - improve the way WATask is working (I have some ideas there)
>
> I thought you wanted to remove this completely. Did you change your mind ?

Even tough its use is very limited, I think it is quite a cool
concept. What is missing, I think, is to be able to tell it go one
step forward or backward when developer tells so. I observed myself to
build quite a lot of wizard like applications, but since WATask does
not provide a way (except for the back button) to go back I had to
connect components in different (and ugly) ways. I think it makes
sense to give a bit more power to WATask, right now it doesn't do
anything more than what you can already do within a callback.

> > Another thing is to get a new web site online, one with a Web 2.0
> > style and that looks better than the ones of our direct competitors.
> > The goal of the Web site would be to have a:
>
> I think it's really important.

Yes me too. The current one sucks.

> If there is no graphic designer, you might better do something that
> you like and then ask the community for its opinion and wishes. The
> design will then slowly improve. This is not the best solution
> however. And after all, I really like the design of lukas-renggli.ch.

Thanks Damien, but if you compare it with something like
www.ruby-lang.org, www.ajaxlines.com, www.macaroondesign.com,
www.ashwebstudio.com, www.reallywildflowers.co.uk, www.mozilla.org,
... there is still a big difference.

Cheers,
Lukas

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I have some minor changes to fix troubles about UTF8 and WideString.
(I don't have tests but I checked in Japanese)

Seaside27-UTF8.1.cs
fixed:
- posted UTF8 text is broken WideString in Squeak
- uploaded filename in UTF8 is also broken


Following two changes correspond with Squeak 3.9 and 3.8.1.
I cannot find the way to merge them.

Seaside27-WideStringURL-39.1.cs
CAUTION: It will raise an exception in Squeak3.8.1
fixed:
- WAUrl>>pathString is not escape-parcented

Seaside27-WideStringURL-38.1.cs
fixed:
- WAUrl>>pathString is not escape-parcented


Koji

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 01:44:09 +0100
"Philippe Marschall" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Now that Seaside 2.7 is about to be ported to VW and development of
> Seaside 2.8 has started I thought I write a mail to summarize Seaside
> 2.7. The main goal of Seaside 2.7 was that Lukas does not have to tell
> anyone to override #rendererClass when he goes to Krakau next week ;)


-- !
Koji Yokokawa <[hidden email]>
    http://www.yengawa.com/
    ^self new!

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So, does this mean that 2.7 is in usable state as much as 2.6b1? Then,
why just create 2.7 or 2.7b(if not rock stable :-)) package for
SqueakMap or just squeak source site?

Thanks for all these great work! (And I'm very willing to run 2.7 now :-) )

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> So, does this mean that 2.7 is in usable state as much as 2.6b1? Then,
> why just create 2.7 or 2.7b(if not rock stable :-)) package for
> SqueakMap or just squeak source site?

I updated the SeasideInstaller on SqueakMap. The Magritte and Pier
packages are already updated.

Cheers,
Lukas

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Lukas: Thanks by the detail about new ideas to Seaside.

I like the most.

About the site, in my own experience, we (the developers) can't
compete with the pro-graphics designers. But, when one of my customers
is with a low budget, I tend to use some designs of this site:
http://www.oswd.org/designs/browse/.

About ruby site you pointed, also detect the language and display
itself in the language of the surfer machine, really very cool (a big
work to have the site in all languages). If this idea is in your mind
to the new Seaside site, I can help with Spanish language.

Cheers.

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I would be nice to market that a bit.
Could you write a paragraph that we can send in all the blogs and  
mailing-list around :)

STef

On 25 févr. 07, at 11:35, Lukas Renggli wrote:

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> Even tough its use is very limited, I think it is quite a
> cool concept. What is missing, I think, is to be able to tell
> it go one step forward or backward when developer tells so. I
> observed myself to build quite a lot of wizard like
> applications, but since WATask does not provide a way (except
> for the back button) to go back I had to connect components
> in different (and ugly) ways. I think it makes sense to give
> a bit more power to WATask, right now it doesn't do anything
> more than what you can already do within a callback.

What about making a reusable component wich renders the sub component you
preconfigure on it and let also programatic configuration of the actions for
it's buttons wich can be typically the same as any wizard?

I don't think this as ugly and seems to be flexible enough for your request.

        cheers,

Sebastian

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Yes, this is what I did so far, however it gets incredible ugly (or
even stops to work at all) when you want something more sophisticated,
such as conditional display/configuration of certain steps and/or
multiple display (loops) of the same steps. This is the use-case where
you can't beat a task with its natural control flow ;-)

Cheers,
Lukas

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On 2/25/07, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote:

> - remove deprecated code, such as the old renderer WAHtmlBuilder
> - improve the way WATask is working (I have some ideas there)
> - better customizability, e.g. custom expired handler for sessions
> - optimizations, such as direct streaming of all output (not
> necessarily directly to the socket, but certainly without too much
> copying around)
> - improve the concept of halos
> - more tests? ;-)

FWIW, I'd be interested in also:
- Getting rid of WADecoration, it has probably the highest complexity
to utility ratio of anything in the framework
- Simplifying the #registerObjectForBacktracking: mechanism,
especially to avoid using WeakKeyDictionary (I know we all disable
that in production anyway)
- Continuing the work I've started on reducing the number of
Continuation instances created by the standard request/response loop
(ie, only use Continuation for #call:).

Avi
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Hi,
   I just tried to update my image with the last updater.
   After installing it from SqueakSource or Monticello (I tried both),
I just ran the following commands :
WAInstaller initialize

WAKom stop; startOn: 9090.
WAComponent allSubclassesDo: [ :each | each initialize ].

Then nothing works and I get this ugly error from my browser :
Internal Server Error
MessageNotUnderstood: UndefinedObject>>isEmpty

Any hint ?

Florian

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> Any hint ?
>

I would try this.

WADispatcher resetAll


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Done.
Nothing changed.
I tried with WAKomEncoded39 stop; startOn: 9090. Same thing.

I could be related to the change of basePath ?
I usually did "WADispatcher default basePath: ''.". But I get an error
now.

Florian

Michel Bany wrote:
>> Any hint ?
>>
>
> I would try this.
>
> WADispatcher resetAll
>
>
>
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> I could be related to the change of basePath ?
> I usually did "WADispatcher default basePath: ''.". But I get an error
> now.

The basePath is now a setting in the application called #serverPath,
similar to #serverPort and #serverHost. To change the path you have to
change the application configuration.

Cheers,
Lukas

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On 26 Feb 2007, at 15:14 , Florian Minjat wrote:

> Then nothing works and I get this ugly error from my browser :
> Internal Server Error
> MessageNotUnderstood: UndefinedObject>>isEmpty

I tried to upgrade Seaside 2.6b1 to Seaside 2.7a1
and could repeat your symptom. Then I did the following in the order  
shown

WADispatcher resetAll.
WAKomEncoded stop; startOn: 8009

Then Seaside came up OK in my web browser.

HTH
Michel.

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But currently I don't even have the config app. The only thing my
browser is returning is 'Internal Server Error   MessageNotUnderstood:
UndefinedObject>>isEmpty'.
I updated from Seaside2.7a1-pmm.157, Scriptaculous-lr.168 and
FileLibrary-mb.18 where everything worked fine.

I tried starting from a blank clean 3.9 image an installed
SeasideInstaller.12. It worked fine. But I couldn't manage to change
the url to my application to 'http://localhost:9090/MyApp' by setting
#serverPath to ''.

Another 'problem' : the old way of serving css by WAApplication>>style
is not working anymore.
I just ran through WADispatcherFiles in order to make something
similar for my app, but did'nt do much good. Could it be possible to
update the seaside faq in order to simply make it work ?

Florian

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Florian Minjat wrote:
> Another 'problem' : the old way of serving css by WAApplication>>style
> is not working anymore.
> I just ran through WADispatcherFiles in order to make something similar
> for my app, but did'nt do much good. Could it be possible to update the
> seaside faq in order to simply make it work ?

Reply on myself : discard the previous 'problem'. I didn't saw that I
could add my newly created library with the config app.

But no good with the application path. I tried with #serverPath as ''
or '/myApp'.

By the way I seem to complain a lot, but thousand thanks for seaside
and all this stuff, it is really great working with :).

Florian
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