Seaside Examples?

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Seaside Examples?

Brad Fuller
Are there any?

--

*Brad Fuller*
+1 (408) 799-6124
*Sonaural Audio Studio*
See Us At GDC 2006
<http://www.cmpevents.com/GD06/a.asp?option=C&V=11&SessID=1954>
Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com <http://www.sonaural.com/>
See me on O'Reilly <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2184>


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Re: Seaside Examples?

Bergel, Alexandre
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/download.html
or even better, www.seaside.st

cheers,
Alexandre

Am Jan 12, 2006 um 7:21 PM schrieb Brad Fuller:

> Are there any?
>
> --  
>
> *Brad Fuller*
> +1 (408) 799-6124
> *Sonaural Audio Studio*
> See Us At GDC 2006 <http://www.cmpevents.com/GD06/a.asp?
> option=C&V=11&SessID=1954>
> Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com <http://www.sonaural.com/>
> See me on O'Reilly <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2184>
>
>

--
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.




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Re: Seaside Examples?

wilkesj
In reply to this post by Brad Fuller
Some tutorials:
http://seaside.st/Tutorial/

Some docs:
http://seaside.st/Documentation/
http://seaside.st/Community/ExternalDocumentation/

And when you install it into the image there is an example SushiStore
application.


On 1/12/06, Brad Fuller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Are there any?
>
> --
>
> *Brad Fuller*
> +1 (408) 799-6124
> *Sonaural Audio Studio*
> See Us At GDC 2006
> <http://www.cmpevents.com/GD06/a.asp?option=C&V=11&SessID=1954>
> Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com <http://www.sonaural.com/>
> See me on O'Reilly <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2184>
>
>
>

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Re: Seaside Examples?

Brad Fuller
In reply to this post by Brad Fuller
Brad Fuller wrote:

> Are there any?
>
Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites that use
Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.

Thanks for this one: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/download.html

Any others?

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Re: Seaside Examples?

Nevin Pratt
Brad Fuller wrote:

> Brad Fuller wrote:
>
>> Are there any?
>>
> Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites that use
> Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.
>
> Thanks for this one: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/download.html
>
> Any others?
>
http://www.bountifulbaby.com

The largest Reborn Doll Supply store in the world!

Seaside 2.3 on Squeak 3.5 and Comanche 5.x.

Nevin


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Re: Seaside Examples?

Brent Vukmer
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Re: Seaside Examples?

Avi  Bryant
In reply to this post by Brad Fuller

On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Brad Fuller wrote:

> Brad Fuller wrote:
>
>> Are there any?
>>
> Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites that use  
> Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.

Actually, seaside.st doesn't use Seaside - it runs on SmallWiki 1.

There aren't many public sites out there; most of them are either for  
a limited set of users, or aren't launched yet (eg, http://
dabbledb.com which is still in closed beta).  SqueakSource is one  
exception that comes to mind.

Avi

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Re: Seaside Examples?

Lukas Renggli
In reply to this post by Nevin Pratt
> > Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites that use
> > Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.

*pfff* don't tell anybody: seaside.st is not a Seaside application, it
is SmallWiki 1 on Squeak, hope to migrate to Pier sometime ... ;-)

This is really a FAQ, shouldn't we collect the links somewhere on
www.seaside.st?

        http://www.dabbledb.com
        http://www.squeaksource.com
        http://www.prolife.ch/offerte

and a lot more that -- unfortunately -- are not accessible by public.

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: Seaside Examples?

Cees De Groot
In reply to this post by Avi Bryant
www.tric.nl has been running on Seaside for some years (which also
means that it is using a Seaside version that is ancient :-)). But
that's a reasonably simple site.

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RE: Seaside Examples?

Ramon Leon
In reply to this post by Brad Fuller
> Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites
> that use Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.
>
> Thanks for this one: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/download.html
>
> Any others?

I built a shopping cart for a small client
http://www.goodiebagsparties.com/ on Squeak3.8 and Seaside 2.5.

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Re: Seaside Examples?

Adrian Lienhard
In reply to this post by Brad Fuller
On Jan 12, 2006, at 20:32 , Brad Fuller wrote:

> Brad Fuller wrote:
>
>> Are there any?
>>
> Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites that use  
> Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.
>
> Thanks for this one: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/download.html
>
> Any others?
>

https://secure.prolife.ch/offerte/ is a public part of a Seaside  
application for a health insurance.

Adrian


___________________
Adrian Lienhard
netstyle.ch GmbH, Terrassenweg 18, CH-3012 Bern
T +41 31 356 42 56, F +41 31 356 42 57
http://www.netstyle.ch  mailto:[hidden email]



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Re: Seaside Examples?

Brad Fuller
In reply to this post by Ramon Leon
Ramon Leon wrote:

>>Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites
>>that use Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.
>>
>>Thanks for this one: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/download.html
>>
>>Any others?
>>    
>>
>
>I built a shopping cart for a small client
>http://www.goodiebagsparties.com/ on Squeak3.8 and Seaside 2.5.
>  
>
nice!

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Re: Seaside Examples?

Brad Fuller
In reply to this post by Avi Bryant
Avi Bryant wrote:

>
> On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Brad Fuller wrote:
>
>> Brad Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Are there any?
>>>
>> Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites that use  
>> Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.
>
>
> Actually, seaside.st doesn't use Seaside - it runs on SmallWiki 1.

gee.. that doesn't seem right... :-)


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Re: Seaside Examples?

Philippe Marschall
In reply to this post by Brad Fuller
www.squeaksource.com

Couldn't we have a page on the seaside wiki with all these applications?
This question pops up again and again.

2006/1/12, Brad Fuller <[hidden email]>:

> Are there any?
>
> --
>
> *Brad Fuller*
> +1 (408) 799-6124
> *Sonaural Audio Studio*
> See Us At GDC 2006
> <http://www.cmpevents.com/GD06/a.asp?option=C&V=11&SessID=1954>
> Hear us online: www.Sonaural.com <http://www.sonaural.com/>
> See me on O'Reilly <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2184>
>
>
>

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Seaside/Ruby on Rails/.Net/etc. (was Re: Seaside Examples?)

Blake-5
In reply to this post by Adrian Lienhard
I'm working on an article on Seaside for DevSource (which is oriented  
around Windows programmers, but which the editors have also found that  
actual code, regardless of platform, is more attractive to readers than  
anything else) and was wondering if anyone here had any experiences they  
wanted to share on using Seaside versus using other technologies.

It appears to me that all these technologies are primarily concerned with  
preserving state in the stateless environment of the web. Is there more to  
it than that, really?

Also, is there an advantage, do y'all think, in Smalltalk having a plug-in  
VM? That is to say, do you think it's easier to segue from Seaside to a  
rich-client type experience in Smalltalk than these other technologies?

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Re: Seaside Examples?

Cees De Groot
In reply to this post by Adrian Lienhard
Adrian: Squeak or VW?

I have a customer on VAST, doing web integration stuff, thinking about
selling them on Seaside but that would mean introducing another
Smalltalk environment to them...


On 1/12/06, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Jan 12, 2006, at 20:32 , Brad Fuller wrote:
>
> > Brad Fuller wrote:
> >
> >> Are there any?
> >>
> > Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites that use
> > Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.
> >
> > Thanks for this one: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/download.html
> >
> > Any others?
> >
>
> https://secure.prolife.ch/offerte/ is a public part of a Seaside
> application for a health insurance.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> ___________________
> Adrian Lienhard
> netstyle.ch GmbH, Terrassenweg 18, CH-3012 Bern
> T +41 31 356 42 56, F +41 31 356 42 57
> http://www.netstyle.ch  mailto:[hidden email]
>
>
>
>

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Re: Seaside Examples?

Adrian Lienhard

On Jan 12, 2006, at 22:13 , Cees De Groot wrote:

> Adrian: Squeak or VW?

it runs on Squeak

> I have a customer on VAST, doing web integration stuff, thinking about
> selling them on Seaside but that would mean introducing another
> Smalltalk environment to them...
>
>
> On 1/12/06, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Jan 12, 2006, at 20:32 , Brad Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Brad Fuller wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are there any?
>>>>
>>> Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites that use
>>> Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.
>>>
>>> Thanks for this one: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/download.html
>>>
>>> Any others?
>>>
>>
>> https://secure.prolife.ch/offerte/ is a public part of a Seaside
>> application for a health insurance.
>>
>> Adrian
>>
>>
>> ___________________
>> Adrian Lienhard
>> netstyle.ch GmbH, Terrassenweg 18, CH-3012 Bern
>> T +41 31 356 42 56, F +41 31 356 42 57
>> http://www.netstyle.ch  mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


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Re: Seaside Examples?

Cees De Groot
Err... insurance companies being the very conventional shops they are,
how did you get them on that track? As you can imagine, I'm quite
interested to learn more about this case :)

On 1/12/06, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Jan 12, 2006, at 22:13 , Cees De Groot wrote:
>
> > Adrian: Squeak or VW?
>
> it runs on Squeak
>
> > I have a customer on VAST, doing web integration stuff, thinking about
> > selling them on Seaside but that would mean introducing another
> > Smalltalk environment to them...
> >
> >
> > On 1/12/06, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> On Jan 12, 2006, at 20:32 , Brad Fuller wrote:
> >>
> >>> Brad Fuller wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Are there any?
> >>>>
> >>> Ok.. sorry I wasn't clear. Are there any example websites that use
> >>> Seaside? ... other than seaside.st, of course.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for this one: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel/download.html
> >>>
> >>> Any others?
> >>>
> >>
> >> https://secure.prolife.ch/offerte/ is a public part of a Seaside
> >> application for a health insurance.
> >>
> >> Adrian
> >>
> >>
> >> ___________________
> >> Adrian Lienhard
> >> netstyle.ch GmbH, Terrassenweg 18, CH-3012 Bern
> >> T +41 31 356 42 56, F +41 31 356 42 57
> >> http://www.netstyle.ch  mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>

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Re: Seaside/Ruby on Rails/.Net/etc. (was Re: Seaside Examples?)

Avi  Bryant
In reply to this post by Blake-5

On Jan 12, 2006, at 1:05 PM, Blake wrote:

> I'm working on an article on Seaside for DevSource (which is  
> oriented around Windows programmers, but which the editors have  
> also found that actual code, regardless of platform, is more  
> attractive to readers than anything else) and was wondering if  
> anyone here had any experiences they wanted to share on using  
> Seaside versus using other technologies.
>
> It appears to me that all these technologies are primarily  
> concerned with preserving state in the stateless environment of the  
> web. Is there more to it than that, really?

I see the issue of preserving state as being more of a means than an  
end.  When I'm pitching the importance of Seaside I tend to focus on  
two things:

- reducing the amount of context a given piece of the UI model has to  
know to be useful; that is, having web pages that don't have to know  
which page came before them or which might come after them, and  
having sections of a web page that don't know which sections surround  
them or which they enclose.  This just sounds like Encapsulation 101  
but it's absolutely *not* standard practice in web development,  
despite the obvious maintainability advantages.
- reducing the manual bookkeeping work required when transferring  
messages between the server and the client.  Traditional web  
application development spends an obscene amount of time shoehorning  
data into strings in URLs and form fields and making sense of those  
same or similar strings that get pulled out of subsequent HTTP  
requests.  In Seaside you never see anything at that level unless you  
really, really want to, and that alone can cut development time  
literally in half or more.

Now, both of these things are indeed *enabled* by the approach to  
state management, which is to keep a huge amount of it active, in  
memory, for each web session.  I joke that Seaside takes a "share  
everything" approach, in contrast to the conventional wisdom of  
scalable web application development which is "share nothing" (ie, be  
able to recreate the full state from scratch on every request so that  
any server running the same code could handle it).  Rails,  
incidentally, comes down very vocally on the "share nothing" side so  
I wouldn't characterize it as being "primarily concerned with  
preserving state" at all.  You might say that Rails is concerned with  
building elegant and convenient models of statelessness, whereas  
Seaside is concerned with abstracting the statelessness away to the  
point that it feels stateful.

> Also, is there an advantage, do y'all think, in Smalltalk having a  
> plug-in VM? That is to say, do you think it's easier to segue from  
> Seaside to a rich-client type experience in Smalltalk than these  
> other technologies?

Not in the sense of actually integrating with rich clients, no (or  
not enough to matter).  Somewhat in the sense that the general feel  
of Seaside is much closer to that of rich client development than  
most web technologies provide.

BTW, it's very cool that you're writing this article - are you going  
to post it to the Seaside list for feedback before sending it off?
Cheers,
Avi


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Re: Seaside/Ruby on Rails/.Net/etc. (was Re: Seaside Examples?)

Blake-5
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:36:09 -0800, Avi Bryant <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

[lotsa good stuff]

Thanks for the feedback, Avi. Very helpful.

> BTW, it's very cool that you're writing this article - are you going to  
> post it to the Seaside list for feedback before sending it off?

If people are interested I will. Or perhaps better, I'd e-mail it to  
interested parties. It wouldn't do to have the article be "published" on  
the mailing list first.

I expect to be doing articles on E-Toys and traits as well later this year.

12