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Seaside or Iliad for business applications?

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Siemen Baader

Seaside or Iliad for business applications?

Hi,

I’m a very happy Iliad user but I’m wondering if it would make sense to switch to Seaside for commercial development since it has a larger user base. I have only used Seaside briefly to try it out and found I was more happy with Iliad back then, but now I’d like to hear your input. Especially from those of you who use it for business applications with paying customers. My questions are:

- does Seaside support partial updates of the DOM, like Iliad, or do I need to refresh the whole website for every interaction?

- Iliad has REST-like URLS that look clean and can be shared, Seaside seems not to. Is this possible with Seaside?

- directly writing javascript. I suppose there is a WAComponent that can emit raw JS?

- what is the status of Websocket / Comet in Seaside?

Is there anything else I should consider?

thanks,
Siemen

CyrilFerlicot

Re: Seaside or Iliad for business applications?

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:13 PM Siemen Baader <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>

Hello,

> I’m a very happy Iliad user but I’m wondering if it would make sense to switch to Seaside for commercial development since it has a larger user base. I have only used Seaside briefly to try it out and found I was more happy with Iliad back then, but now I’d like to hear your input. Especially from those of you who use it for business applications with paying customers. My questions are:
>
> - does Seaside support partial updates of the DOM, like Iliad, or do I need to refresh the whole website for every interaction?
>

You can use JQuery with ajax to refresh part of the page.

You can check for example this component in MDL that is working with ajax:

https://mdl.ferlicot.fr/mdl/Widgets/DatePicker

> - Iliad has REST-like URLS that look clean and can be shared, Seaside seems not to. Is this possible with Seaside?
>

It is possible to have rest-like URLs sharable, but when using the
application you will still have the hash of the session and callback
key in the URL (It seems not clean but it's sharable).

Example:

https://mdl.ferlicot.fr/mdl/Components/Badges

To do that you can, yourself, write part of your urls depending on the
state of your Seaside application. Then, when a user get an URL, you
can customize the state of your application from the user request
containing the URL with the sub paths and the fields.

We talked with Johan not long ago about clean URLs. It's possible to
have them by storing the fields in cookies, but it mean that you can
only have one session by browser.

> - directly writing javascript. I suppose there is a WAComponent that can emit raw JS?
>

It is possible to ship the application with javascript files or to
directly inject javascript in the application.

> - what is the status of Websocket / Comet in Seaside?
>

I am using sucessfuly Zinc's Websockets in Seaside.

It is used in this Seaside project: https://demos.ferlicot.fr/TelescopeDemo

I don't know for Comet.

> Is there anything else I should consider?
>
> thanks,
> Siemen

--
Cyril Ferlicot
https://ferlicot.fr

EstebanLM

Re: Seaside or Iliad for business applications?

On 23 Jan 2019, at 14:22, Cyril Ferlicot <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 2:13 PM Siemen Baader <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Hello,

I’m a very happy Iliad user but I’m wondering if it would make sense to switch to Seaside for commercial development since it has a larger user base. I have only used Seaside briefly to try it out and found I was more happy with Iliad back then, but now I’d like to hear your input. Especially from those of you who use it for business applications with paying customers. My questions are:

- does Seaside support partial updates of the DOM, like Iliad, or do I need to refresh the whole website for every interaction?

You can use JQuery with ajax to refresh part of the page.

You can check for example this component in MDL that is working with ajax:

https://mdl.ferlicot.fr/mdl/Widgets/DatePicker

There is also Willow (a framework on top of Seaside):

https://github.com/ba-st/Willow

Esteban

- Iliad has REST-like URLS that look clean and can be shared, Seaside seems not to. Is this possible with Seaside?

It is possible to have rest-like URLs sharable, but when using the
application you will still have the hash of the session and callback
key in the URL (It seems not clean but it's sharable).

Example:

https://mdl.ferlicot.fr/mdl/Components/Badges

To do that you can, yourself, write part of your urls depending on the
state of your Seaside application. Then, when a user get an URL, you
can customize the state of your application from the user request
containing the URL with the sub paths and the fields.

We talked with Johan not long ago about clean URLs. It's possible to
have them by storing the fields in cookies, but it mean that you can
only have one session by browser.

- directly writing javascript. I suppose there is a WAComponent that can emit raw JS?

It is possible to ship the application with javascript files or to
directly inject javascript in the application.

- what is the status of Websocket / Comet in Seaside?

I am using sucessfuly Zinc's Websockets in Seaside.

It is used in this Seaside project: https://demos.ferlicot.fr/TelescopeDemo

I don't know for Comet.

Is there anything else I should consider?

thanks,
Siemen

--
Cyril Ferlicot
https://ferlicot.fr

Siemen Baader

Re: Seaside or Iliad for business applications?

Thanks to you both, Cyril and Esteban!

On 23 Jan 2019, at 14:22, Cyril Ferlicot <[hidden email]> wrote:

You can use JQuery with ajax to refresh part of the page.

You can check for example this component in MDL that is working with ajax:

https://mdl.ferlicot.fr/mdl/Widgets/DatePicker

Nice demo! Ok, so it is possible but seems to be more low-level than what Iliad does - there every WAComponent is re-rendered in the client by the framework when marked dirty. Good to see the alternative!

On 23 Jan 2019, at 14.28, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

There is also Willow (a framework on top of Seaside):
https://github.com/ba-st/Willow

Thanks, this looks interesting. I'll have to consider if it does what I need and if the fact that it is based on Seaside means that there is good community support.

On 23 Jan 2019, at 14:22, Cyril Ferlicot <[hidden email]> wrote:

We talked with Johan not long ago about clean URLs. It's possible to
have them by storing the fields in cookies, but it mean that you can
only have one session by browser.

But this is what everyone else I know does, including Iliad. Try to log into Facebook or Gmail and open a new tab, you will be logged in to your session. To get a new session people open a private browser tab. And if users copy the URL and share it with someone else, they wouldn't want to give away their session ID. Or am I missing something? As I said, I don't know Seaside and my be misunderstanding why it does things the way it does.

best,

Siemen