Sideways marketing of pharo, seaside, etc.

> [...]
> Anyway, if someone with a talent for writing editor code wanted to look
> at the existing external LSL scripting editors and port something to
> squeak for use on a webpage in seaside, I can almost promise you that
> squeak/seaside useage would go up by a huge, HUGE factor. Such a project
> is beyond me, personally due to my lack of formal education, etc., but
> it should be a worthy project for anyone wishing to promote
> seaside/smalltalk use.
>
>
> Feel free to ask any questions, privately if appropriate.
>
> Lawson English LEnglish5 (at) cox [dot] net
> Saijanai Kuhn in Second Life
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>  

> Hey all, I'm in one of my manic brainstorming moods and whilest I'm
> working on a baby interface between Second Life and Squeak, it dawns  
> on
> me that there is a huge potential for evangelicalism on your part  
> here:
> One of hte myriad complains Second LIfe power users have is that the
> build-in programming tools are extremely limited. There are numerous
> options for plugins as with Eclipse and emacs (I believe) but they all
> run as standalone tools with no easy integration with the 3D virtual
> world experience, which is hte main reason why people bother to script
> things in SL in the first place: they have interactive feedback with
> potentialky thousands of other people.
>
> The point being that seaside runs just fine on localhost and the  
> builtin
> SL browser works just fine with everything seaside I have tested.

> If  someone wanted to entice potentially 100,000 Second LIfe users to
> install seaside, implementing a nice LSL scripting interface in a
> seaside webpage, complete with syntax coloring, databases of scripts,
> version control, etc etc, would go a long way toards convincing the
> Second Life powerusers, at least, that seaside is a worthwhile  
> install.
>
> If/when I get my interface to the client-server packets proxy working,
> one could see potential for many more elaborate uses for squeak/
> seaside
> and Second LIfe.

> Feel free to ask any questions, privately if appropriate.
>
> Lawson English LEnglish5 (at) cox [dot] net
> Saijanai Kuhn in Second Life
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> Hey all, I'm in one of my manic brainstorming moods and whilest I'm
> working on a baby interface between Second Life and Squeak, it dawns
> on me that there is a huge potential for evangelicalism on your part
> here:
> One of hte myriad complains Second LIfe power users have is that the
> build-in programming tools are extremely limited. There are numerous
> options for plugins as with Eclipse and emacs (I believe) but they all
> run as standalone tools with no easy integration with the 3D virtual
> world experience, which is hte main reason why people bother to script
> things in SL in the first place: they have interactive feedback with
> potentialky thousands of other people.
>
> The point being that seaside runs just fine on localhost and the
> builtin SL browser works just fine with everything seaside I have
> tested.

> If  someone wanted to entice potentially 100,000 Second LIfe users to
> install seaside, implementing a nice LSL scripting interface in a
> seaside webpage, complete with syntax coloring, databases of scripts,
> version control, etc etc, would go a long way toards convincing the
> Second Life powerusers, at least, that seaside is a worthwhile
> install.
>
> If/when I get my interface to the client-server packets proxy working,
> one could see potential for many more elaborate uses for squeak/
> seaside and Second LIfe.

> Feel free to ask any questions, privately if appropriate.
>
> Lawson English LEnglish5 (at) cox [dot] net Saijanai Kuhn in Second
> Life
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> Bill
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:22 AM
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sideways marketing of pharo, seaside, etc.
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:39 AM, Lawson English wrote:
>
>> Hey all, I'm in one of my manic brainstorming moods and whilest I'm
>> working on a baby interface between Second Life and Squeak, it dawns
>> on me that there is a huge potential for evangelicalism on your part
>> here:
>> One of hte myriad complains Second LIfe power users have is that the
>> build-in programming tools are extremely limited. There are numerous
>> options for plugins as with Eclipse and emacs (I believe) but they all
>> run as standalone tools with no easy integration with the 3D virtual
>> world experience, which is hte main reason why people bother to script
>> things in SL in the first place: they have interactive feedback with
>> potentialky thousands of other people.
>>
>> The point being that seaside runs just fine on localhost and the
>> builtin SL browser works just fine with everything seaside I have
>> tested.
>
> what do you mean by the previous sentence?
>
>> If  someone wanted to entice potentially 100,000 Second LIfe users to
>> install seaside, implementing a nice LSL scripting interface in a
>> seaside webpage, complete with syntax coloring, databases of scripts,
>> version control, etc etc, would go a long way toards convincing the
>> Second Life powerusers, at least, that seaside is a worthwhile
>> install.
>>
>> If/when I get my interface to the client-server packets proxy working,
>> one could see potential for many more elaborate uses for squeak/
>> seaside and Second LIfe.
>
> Keep us informed it looks exciting.
>
>> (interop between SL and Cobalt/Croquet is left as an exercise for the
>> reader ;-))
>
> I thought Croquet was dead as an open-source project.
>
>> Anyway, if someone with a talent for writing editor code wanted to
>> look at the existing external LSL scripting editors and port something
>> to squeak for use on a webpage in seaside, I can almost promise you
>> that squeak/seaside useage would go up by a huge, HUGE factor. Such a
>> project is beyond me, personally due to my lack of formal education,
>> etc., but it should be a worthy project for anyone wishing to promote
>> seaside/smalltalk use.
>
> May be this is a nice job for helvetia. Lukas?
> mixing SL in Smalltalk :)
>
>> Feel free to ask any questions, privately if appropriate.
>>
>> Lawson English LEnglish5 (at) cox [dot] net Saijanai Kuhn in Second
>> Life
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> Bill
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Stéphane Ducasse
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:22 AM
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sideways marketing of pharo, seaside, etc.
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:39 AM, Lawson English wrote:
>
>> Hey all, I'm in one of my manic brainstorming moods and whilest I'm
>> working on a baby interface between Second Life and Squeak, it dawns
>> on me that there is a huge potential for evangelicalism on your part
>> here:
>> One of hte myriad complains Second LIfe power users have is that the
>> build-in programming tools are extremely limited. There are numerous
>> options for plugins as with Eclipse and emacs (I believe) but they
>> all run as standalone tools with no easy integration with the 3D
>> virtual world experience, which is hte main reason why people bother
>> to script things in SL in the first place: they have interactive
>> feedback with potentialky thousands of other people.
>>
>> The point being that seaside runs just fine on localhost and the
>> builtin SL browser works just fine with everything seaside I have
>> tested.
>
> what do you mean by the previous sentence?
>
>> If  someone wanted to entice potentially 100,000 Second LIfe users to
>> install seaside, implementing a nice LSL scripting interface in a
>> seaside webpage, complete with syntax coloring, databases of scripts,
>> version control, etc etc, would go a long way toards convincing the
>> Second Life powerusers, at least, that seaside is a worthwhile
>> install.
>>
>> If/when I get my interface to the client-server packets proxy
>> working, one could see potential for many more elaborate uses for
>> squeak/ seaside and Second LIfe.
>
> Keep us informed it looks exciting.
>
>> (interop between SL and Cobalt/Croquet is left as an exercise for the
>> reader ;-))
>
> I thought Croquet was dead as an open-source project.
>
>> Anyway, if someone with a talent for writing editor code wanted to
>> look at the existing external LSL scripting editors and port
>> something to squeak for use on a webpage in seaside, I can almost
>> promise you that squeak/seaside useage would go up by a huge, HUGE
>> factor. Such a project is beyond me, personally due to my lack of
>> formal education, etc., but it should be a worthy project for anyone
>> wishing to promote seaside/smalltalk use.
>
> May be this is a nice job for helvetia. Lukas?
> mixing SL in Smalltalk :)
>
>> Feel free to ask any questions, privately if appropriate.
>>
>> Lawson English LEnglish5 (at) cox [dot] net Saijanai Kuhn in Second
>> Life
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> Aside from
>
>  http://www.duke.edu/~julian/Cobalt/Foundational_Technology_files/logo_smalltalk_med.png
>
> which strikes me as surpising[*] coming from Smalltalkers, I do not see them running away from Smalltalk.
>
> Could it simply be that nobody wanted a 3D OS (Croquet), and that a conferencing tool (Qwaq) seemed viable?  I still think Croquet would have been more useful had the 3D rendering system been made more readily reusable, so that one could easily drop a 3D world into a windowed program vs. finding that "we're not in Kansas anymore."  Retained mode 3D can be a good thing.  Tweak was a mistake too.
>
> So far at least, Cobalt appears to be delivering Squeak images, so perhaps this is not a huge slap in the face.  My big concern now is for the future of Cog.  Any ideas?  Eliot seems to be telling us we're going to have a nice Christmas, JIT wise.  Here's hoping he is correct.
>
> Bill
>
> [*] the capitalization is off and there are no connections with the "brand."  It is unusual, perhaps even arguably disrespectful to Smalltalk's origins.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Denker
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:50 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Croquet - was Sideways marketing of pharo, seaside, etc.
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Stef,
>>
>> I don't dispute it, but what is this about Croquet being dead?
>>
>
> For one, the page
>
> http://www.duke.edu/~julian/Cobalt/About.html you can read:
> *Croquet is no longer under active development
>
> And the http://opencroquet.org/ site seems to be not actively maintained.
> Last news from 2008, all about cobalt. I don't see any that anyone actually claims to be a member of the consortium, either.
>
> Not much happening in Cobalt, it seems. I actually wonder if they have anyone on the team with advanced technical knowledge about the deep inner working of Croquet or even just the Squeak parts.
>
> All very strange.... I am happy that I am not involved in it or the politics around all this.
> Looks all very ugly to me.
>
>       Marcus
>
>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>> Stéphane Ducasse
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:22 AM
>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Sideways marketing of pharo, seaside, etc.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:39 AM, Lawson English wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all, I'm in one of my manic brainstorming moods and whilest I'm
>>> working on a baby interface between Second Life and Squeak, it dawns
>>> on me that there is a huge potential for evangelicalism on your part
>>> here:
>>> One of hte myriad complains Second LIfe power users have is that the
>>> build-in programming tools are extremely limited. There are numerous
>>> options for plugins as with Eclipse and emacs (I believe) but they
>>> all run as standalone tools with no easy integration with the 3D
>>> virtual world experience, which is hte main reason why people bother
>>> to script things in SL in the first place: they have interactive
>>> feedback with potentialky thousands of other people.
>>>
>>> The point being that seaside runs just fine on localhost and the
>>> builtin SL browser works just fine with everything seaside I have
>>> tested.
>>
>> what do you mean by the previous sentence?
>>
>>> If  someone wanted to entice potentially 100,000 Second LIfe users to
>>> install seaside, implementing a nice LSL scripting interface in a
>>> seaside webpage, complete with syntax coloring, databases of scripts,
>>> version control, etc etc, would go a long way toards convincing the
>>> Second Life powerusers, at least, that seaside is a worthwhile
>>> install.
>>>
>>> If/when I get my interface to the client-server packets proxy
>>> working, one could see potential for many more elaborate uses for
>>> squeak/ seaside and Second LIfe.
>>
>> Keep us informed it looks exciting.
>>
>>> (interop between SL and Cobalt/Croquet is left as an exercise for the
>>> reader ;-))
>>
>> I thought Croquet was dead as an open-source project.
>>
>>> Anyway, if someone with a talent for writing editor code wanted to
>>> look at the existing external LSL scripting editors and port
>>> something to squeak for use on a webpage in seaside, I can almost
>>> promise you that squeak/seaside useage would go up by a huge, HUGE
>>> factor. Such a project is beyond me, personally due to my lack of
>>> formal education, etc., but it should be a worthy project for anyone
>>> wishing to promote seaside/smalltalk use.
>>
>> May be this is a nice job for helvetia. Lukas?
>> mixing SL in Smalltalk :)
>>
>>> Feel free to ask any questions, privately if appropriate.
>>>
>>> Lawson English LEnglish5 (at) cox [dot] net Saijanai Kuhn in Second
>>> Life
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Marcus Denker  --  [hidden email]
> http://www.marcusdenker.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>