Smalltalk Labs Browser
Locked
 
Administrator
|
Just stumbled on this very interesting seaside-based browser via James's blog: http://code.google.com/p/smalltalklabsbrowser
|
|
Very nice video.
Also note that there is a complete AJAX based OmniBrowser view for the web (OB-Web), that brings the complete OB toolset including all refactoring tools to the web for over 4 years now. No web-based development UI really took off in the past decade, so I wonder if this is really what people need? Also I am not sure how well the traditional Smalltalk browsers convert to the web? Clamento takes a different approach, see <http://clamato.net/>. Lukas On 1 November 2010 13:32, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Just stumbled on this very interesting seaside-based browser via James's > blog: http://code.google.com/p/smalltalklabsbrowser > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-Labs-Browser-tp3022069p3022069.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch |
|
|
Hi,
a really cool thing that Christoph is currently writing is the browser for blogs http://smalltalklabs.tumblr.com/post/1423578261/smalltalk-labs-browser-for-blogs-preview-video (soon on pharocasts :)
Laurent Laffont
Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote: Very nice video. |
Re: Smalltalk Labs Browser
|
|
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
Lukas,
On 02 Nov 2010, at 10:14, Lukas Renggli wrote: > Also note that there is a complete AJAX based OmniBrowser view for the > web (OB-Web), that brings the complete OB toolset including all > refactoring tools to the web for over 4 years now. No web-based > development UI really took off in the past decade, so I wonder if this > is really what people need? How do I load and start OB-Web ? Thanks, Sven PS: BTW, congratulations on the PhD ! |
|
|
> How do I load and start OB-Web ?
1. Download a recent Pharo image with OB loaded, e.g. <http://hudson.lukas-renggli.ch/job/Development/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Pharo-OneClick.zip>. 2. Evaluate the following script to load Kom and OB-Web: Gofer new squeaksource: 'KomHttpServer'; package: 'DynamicBindings'; package: 'KomServices'; package: 'KomHttpServer'; load. Gofer new renggli: 'omnibrowser'; package: 'JSON'; package: 'OB-Web'; load. 3. Start the application by evaluating: OBKomHttpService startOn: 9090 4. Open the URL http://localhost:9090 in Safari or FireFox (make sure not to block popups). The code should mostly work, I recently fixed all the tests. However keep in mind that it hasn't been used in the past 4 years and that it does not support some "newer" OB features like the button bar and the new completion and multiselect dialogs. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch |
Re: Smalltalk Labs Browser
|
|
On 02 Nov 2010, at 18:57, Lukas Renggli wrote: > The code should mostly work, I recently fixed all the tests. However > keep in mind that it hasn't been used in the past 4 years and that it > does not support some "newer" OB features like the button bar and the > new completion and multiselect dialogs. I got it working with your instructions. I seems a little rough in terms of error handling and feedback, but it is very impressive. It is quite surprising that this is not a Seaside web app. I also wonder why web based IDE's did not catch on, maybe you were to early here. It kind of feels like it should somehow work. WebVelocity is another example (it is not the right aproach IMO, but it feels reasonably solid). The current cloud hype fits very well with a web based IDE. Sven |
|
|
>> The code should mostly work, I recently fixed all the tests. However
>> keep in mind that it hasn't been used in the past 4 years and that it >> does not support some "newer" OB features like the button bar and the >> new completion and multiselect dialogs. > > I got it working with your instructions. > I seems a little rough in terms of error handling and feedback, but it is very impressive. This is all Colin's code, I only fixed it to make it work with the latest code base. To me it serves as a verification that the OB metamodel remains independent of the view code. > It is quite surprising that this is not a Seaside web app. At the time this was written Seaside just came up with AJAX support. > I also wonder why web based IDE's did not catch on, maybe you were to early here. > It kind of feels like it should somehow work. I was already working with a web based IDE's in 2000 (Zope). It was a horrible experience, and it still is one today. People obviously moved to other frameworks: Django, Rails, ... and in my case Seaside. > The current cloud hype fits very well with a web based IDE. This is true, but then again cloud service providers do not promote web based IDEs either. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch |
|
Administrator
|
In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe
I hadn't heard of OB-Web, I should have a look at it. WebVelocity may feel solid but I reckon the user experience sucks. I haven't been able to look at SeaBreeze which is supposed to be another example. Clamato looks pretty cool! I agree that porting the traditional Smalltalk IDE to the web doesn't really make sense, but with web apps becoming more powerful I can really see potential here :) |
|
|
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> How do I load and start OB-Web ? > > 1. Download a recent Pharo image with OB loaded, e.g. > <http://hudson.lukas-renggli.ch/job/Development/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Pharo-OneClick.zip>. > > 2. Evaluate the following script to load Kom and OB-Web: > > Gofer new > squeaksource: 'KomHttpServer'; > package: 'DynamicBindings'; > package: 'KomServices'; > package: 'KomHttpServer'; > load. > Gofer new > renggli: 'omnibrowser'; > package: 'JSON'; > package: 'OB-Web'; > load. > > 3. Start the application by evaluating: > > OBKomHttpService startOn: 9090 > > 4. Open the URL http://localhost:9090 in Safari or FireFox (make sure > not to block popups). > > The code should mostly work, I recently fixed all the tests. However > keep in mind that it hasn't been used in the past 4 years and that it > does not support some "newer" OB features like the button bar and the > new completion and multiselect dialogs. > > Lukas Hmm, I must try that with PharoKernel :-) -- Pavel > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > |
|
|
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
As the culprit behind SL Browser I'll add my 2 cents here :)
Nice to see some discussion about this here, although I'm still living a bit in fear about someone actually taking a look at the code and getting a heart attack because I turned his favorite language into an abomination ^^ Avi Bryant's Clamato is really nice. Clamato was one of the things that convinced me to check out Smalltalk. SL Browser will have a mini view a bit like Clamato that sits on top of the website you are developing so that you can see changes without having to switch between windows all the time. I don't think web based IDEs will replace Smalltalk IDEs any time soon, at least not Squeak and Pharo. Morphic has it's drawbacks but using it in a development environment just makes so many things possible that make your life easier as a developer that you would miss out on in a web based IDE (at least until the Lively Kernel gets into a usable state). I want to turn SL Browser into a web based IDE and I want you to be able to develop your complete website/web app from start to finish in it, but I wouldn't myself recommend doing this. I just want the option. My use case would be to write only parts of my website with it. I think it's rather nice that I would be able to develop my website in Pharo, and then being able to continue working on it wherever I am, with whatever tools I have available. "Got an iPad? Suits me! An iPhone? Well, typing is a bit hard on there but then I'm just going to solve this tough problem where I mainly need to think instead of typing code anyway. I think I want to try out Haiku OS again. Oh no, Pharo doesn't work on Haiku.. Doesn't matter, I'll just use the web IDE." (just for completeness sake, there's actually a Squeak 3.6 or something like that working on Haiku) And I also have to stress the point that doing SL Browser is mainly a learning exercise for me. I saw the WABrowser in Seaside and thought hey, it could be fun to write something like that with a bit more features as my first Smalltalk app to get the hang of Smalltalk (and Seaside in the process). Before that I had only written a small tool to convert subtitle files into a human readable text file to help me with doing the voice overs for Pharocasts ^^ If people use SL Browser I'll be really glad that I was able to provide something useful to the Smalltalk community, if they don't that's fine with me too since I still achieved my goal of learning more about Smalltalk. I wasn't able to get OB-Web working with the instructions, nothing happens when I click the link to open the browser, so I can't say anything about that one, but it sure does sound interesting. Cheers, Chris |
|
|
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
what I would like to see is how a good new set of (and not traditional) code browsers developed to get efficient
on coding a webbrowser could have impact on our old tools in our image. I think especially in terms of widgets the adequate use of accordion or other js widgets. I think that if we get a nice environment on a web browser we have people building cool new widgets for image side coding. I would really like to see alternate ways of browsing code like hopscotch or (to a certain extent whisker). Frankly I feel in jail with some of the tools we use. I want more and better. So I'm really curious to see how our tools will evolve because we must change. Stef On Nov 2, 2010, at 11:13 PM, HaiColon wrote: > > As the culprit behind SL Browser I'll add my 2 cents here :) > > Nice to see some discussion about this here, although I'm still living a bit > in fear about someone actually taking a look at the code and getting a heart > attack because I turned his favorite language into an abomination ^^ > > Avi Bryant's Clamato is really nice. Clamato was one of the things that > convinced me to check out Smalltalk. SL Browser will have a mini view a bit > like Clamato that sits on top of the website you are developing so that you > can see changes without having to switch between windows all the time. > > I don't think web based IDEs will replace Smalltalk IDEs any time soon, at > least not Squeak and Pharo. Morphic has it's drawbacks but using it in a > development environment just makes so many things possible that make your > life easier as a developer that you would miss out on in a web based IDE (at > least until the Lively Kernel gets into a usable state). > > I want to turn SL Browser into a web based IDE and I want you to be able to > develop your complete website/web app from start to finish in it, but I > wouldn't myself recommend doing this. I just want the option. My use case > would be to write only parts of my website with it. I think it's rather nice > that I would be able to develop my website in Pharo, and then being able to > continue working on it wherever I am, with whatever tools I have available. > "Got an iPad? Suits me! An iPhone? Well, typing is a bit hard on there but > then I'm just going to solve this tough problem where I mainly need to think > instead of typing code anyway. I think I want to try out Haiku OS again. Oh > no, Pharo doesn't work on Haiku.. Doesn't matter, I'll just use the web > IDE." (just for completeness sake, there's actually a Squeak 3.6 or > something like that working on Haiku) > > And I also have to stress the point that doing SL Browser is mainly a > learning exercise for me. I saw the WABrowser in Seaside and thought hey, it > could be fun to write something like that with a bit more features as my > first Smalltalk app to get the hang of Smalltalk (and Seaside in the > process). Before that I had only written a small tool to convert subtitle > files into a human readable text file to help me with doing the voice overs > for Pharocasts ^^ If people use SL Browser I'll be really glad that I was > able to provide something useful to the Smalltalk community, if they don't > that's fine with me too since I still achieved my goal of learning more > about Smalltalk. > > I wasn't able to get OB-Web working with the instructions, nothing happens > when I click the link to open the browser, so I can't say anything about > that one, but it sure does sound interesting. > > Cheers, > Chris > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-Labs-Browser-tp3022069p3024541.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > |
|
|
In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek-3
Well, it can be loaded into PharoKernel (with Gofer) using this
script. Menus currently don't work and if you save the image, the startUp fails (I'm not sure if it is PharoKernel related error) Object subclass: #MenuIcons instanceVariableNames: '' classVariableNames: 'Icons TranslatedIcons' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'OmniBrowserCompatibilityLayer'! Gofer new squeaksource: 'KomHttpServer'; package: 'DynamicBindings'; package: 'KomServices'; package: 'KomHttpServer'; load. Gofer it wiresong: 'ob'; package: 'OmniBrowser'; load. Gofer new renggli: 'omnibrowser'; package: 'JSON'; package: 'OB-Web'; package: 'OB-Standard'; load. MCFileBasedRepository flushAllCaches. MCDefinition clearInstances. Smalltalk garbageCollect. ! !OBBrowser methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'cwp 6/4/2006 00:36'! addPanel: aPanel aPanel ifNotNil: [ panels add: aPanel. aPanel browser: self]. ! ! !OBKomHttpService methodsFor: 'as yet unclassified' stamp: 'pk 11/2/2010 22:44'! processError: anError | msg | msg := String streamContents: [:s | s nextPutAll: thisContext stack size asString; cr. " rep nextPutAll: ((thisContext stack copy at: 12) tempsAndValues ) asString; cr." thisContext stack copy withIndexDo: [:stck :i | [s nextPutAll: i asString; space; nextPutAll: stck asString; cr] ifError: [:er | s nextPutAll: er asString; cr]]]. ^ HttpResponse basicNew status: #serverError; contentType: MIMEDocument contentTypePlainText; contents: ((anError class name, ': ', anError messageText), String cr, msg) readStream; yourself! ! !OBCodeBrowser class methodsFor: 'configuration' stamp: 'lr 8/15/2010 15:31'! annotationPanel ^ nil! ! !OBCodeBrowser class methodsFor: 'configuration' stamp: 'lr 8/15/2010 15:31'! buttonPanel ^ nil! ! OBKomHttpService startOn: 8000. (Delay forSeconds: 10000) wait. |
|
|
> Menus currently don't work
That seems to be a problem I also saw yesterday in a full Pharo image. > Gofer it > wiresong: 'ob'; > package: 'OmniBrowser'; > load. Load 'OmniBrowser' from the same repository you load 'OB-Web' and 'OB-Standard'. The code in Colin's repository does not work in Pharo and is highly outdated. > Gofer new > renggli: 'omnibrowser'; > package: 'JSON'; > package: 'OB-Web'; > package: 'OB-Standard'; > load. -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch |
|
|
Hi Lukas,
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Menus currently don't work > > That seems to be a problem I also saw yesterday in a full Pharo image. With your version of OmniBrowser the menus work well. Thanks -- Pavel > >> Gofer it >> wiresong: 'ob'; >> package: 'OmniBrowser'; >> load. > > Load 'OmniBrowser' from the same repository you load 'OB-Web' and 'OB-Standard'. > > The code in Colin's repository does not work in Pharo and is highly outdated. > >> Gofer new >> renggli: 'omnibrowser'; >> package: 'JSON'; >> package: 'OB-Web'; >> package: 'OB-Standard'; >> load. > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > |
|
|
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote: Very nice video. May be not a full featured IDE. But I used a web code browser for Seaslides (see http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uZxVgeeGwSOMW86-QeHbSQ?feat=directlink ) which is basically a WABrowser subclass + Bespin (now Skywriter) so it has at least one usage :).
I've just discovered http://www.ymacs.org/ (demo http://www.ymacs.org/demo/ ) and it seems a web browser can be a good candidate as a portable IDE.
It may be easier today to experiment with GUI in a Web Browser than in Morphic. Laurent Laffont
|
|
|
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
On Nov 3, 2010, at 9:20 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote: > Very nice video. > > Also note that there is a complete AJAX based OmniBrowser view for the > web (OB-Web), that brings the complete OB toolset including all > refactoring tools to the web for over 4 years now. No web-based > development UI really took off in the past decade, so I wonder if this > is really what people need? > > May be not a full featured IDE. But I used a web code browser for Seaslides (see http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uZxVgeeGwSOMW86-QeHbSQ?feat=directlink ) which is basically a WABrowser subclass + Bespin (now Skywriter) so it has at least one usage :). > > I've just discovered http://www.ymacs.org/ (demo http://www.ymacs.org/demo/ ) and it seems a web browser can be a good candidate as a portable IDE. > > It may be easier today to experiment with GUI in a Web Browser than in Morphic. Yes But Smalltalker looks for it when you see the state of morphic Stef |
|
Administrator
|
What did you mean? |
|
|
In reply to this post by laurent laffont
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:19 AM, laurent laffont
<[hidden email]> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Very nice video. >> >> Also note that there is a complete AJAX based OmniBrowser view for the >> web (OB-Web), that brings the complete OB toolset including all >> refactoring tools to the web for over 4 years now. No web-based >> development UI really took off in the past decade, so I wonder if this >> is really what people need? > > May be not a full featured IDE. But I used a web code browser for Seaslides > (see http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uZxVgeeGwSOMW86-QeHbSQ?feat=directlink > ) which is basically a WABrowser subclass + Bespin (now Skywriter) so it has > at least one usage :). > I've just discovered http://www.ymacs.org/ (demo http://www.ymacs.org/demo/ > ) and it seems a web browser can be a good candidate as a portable IDE. > It may be easier today to experiment with GUI in a Web Browser than in > Morphic. > Laurent Laffont SeasideXUL (http://code.google.com/p/seasidexul/) is a kind of web GUI too. Shame on me that I'm not able to move this project on now :-) This projects show us that more attention should be paid to OmniBrowser because it is a good framework that enables to build full IDE on various GUI technologies. -- Pavel >> Also I am not sure how well the traditional Smalltalk browsers convert >> to the web? Clamento takes a different approach, see >> <http://clamato.net/>. >> >> Lukas >> >> On 1 November 2010 13:32, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote: >> > >> > Just stumbled on this very interesting seaside-based browser via James's >> > blog: http://code.google.com/p/smalltalklabsbrowser >> > >> > -- >> > View this message in context: >> > http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-Labs-Browser-tp3022069p3022069.html >> > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> www.lukas-renggli.ch >> > > |
|
|
In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
I mean not having refactoring phases after expansion phase during 10 years is not good.
You get a system that shows its ages while it could be really sexy. Stef On Nov 3, 2010, at 10:36 AM, Geert Claes wrote: > > > Stéphane Ducasse wrote: >> >> Yes >> >> But Smalltalker looks for it when you see the state of morphic >> > > What did you mean? > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-Labs-Browser-tp3022069p3025055.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > |
|
|
In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek-3
Hi,
I would also like to point out Glamour, an engine for building browsers. It is similar in intent with OmniBrowser in that it models the interaction independently from the rendering, but it aims to go further and model complex interactions. If you want to get an idea about it, here is a small tutorial example: http://www.themoosebook.org/book/internals/glamour/glimpse If you want to play with it, you can: - load it in a PharoDev 1.1: Gofer new squeaksource: 'Glamour'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamour'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGlamour) perform: #loadDefault - or get it from the nightly built Moose image: http://hudson.moosetechnology.org/job/moose-latest-dev/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/moose/*zip*/moose.zip Here is an example of a browser (in this case, only readonly) that is available on the web (best seen with Firefox). We use to browse the code meta-model we use in Moose: http://online.moosetechnology.org/moose/metaBrowser The same code can be seen by executing "MooseMetaBrowser open" in a Moose image. Cheers, Doru On 3 Nov 2010, at 10:36, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 9:19 AM, laurent laffont > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Very nice video. >>> >>> Also note that there is a complete AJAX based OmniBrowser view for the >>> web (OB-Web), that brings the complete OB toolset including all >>> refactoring tools to the web for over 4 years now. No web-based >>> development UI really took off in the past decade, so I wonder if this >>> is really what people need? >> >> May be not a full featured IDE. But I used a web code browser for Seaslides >> (see http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uZxVgeeGwSOMW86-QeHbSQ?feat=directlink >> ) which is basically a WABrowser subclass + Bespin (now Skywriter) so it has >> at least one usage :). >> I've just discovered http://www.ymacs.org/ (demo http://www.ymacs.org/demo/ >> ) and it seems a web browser can be a good candidate as a portable IDE. >> It may be easier today to experiment with GUI in a Web Browser than in >> Morphic. >> Laurent Laffont > > SeasideXUL (http://code.google.com/p/seasidexul/) is a kind of web GUI > too. Shame on me that I'm not able to move this project on now :-) > > This projects show us that more attention should be paid to > OmniBrowser because it is a good framework that enables to build full > IDE on various GUI technologies. > > -- Pavel > > >>> Also I am not sure how well the traditional Smalltalk browsers convert >>> to the web? Clamento takes a different approach, see >>> <http://clamato.net/>. >>> >>> Lukas >>> >>> On 1 November 2010 13:32, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Just stumbled on this very interesting seaside-based browser via James's >>>> blog: http://code.google.com/p/smalltalklabsbrowser >>>> >>>> -- >>>> View this message in context: >>>> http://forum.world.st/Smalltalk-Labs-Browser-tp3022069p3022069.html >>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow." |
«
Return to Pharo Smalltalk Developers
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |