Smalltalk Programming Competition

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
31 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
FYI, I am trying to jumpstart a Smalltalk programming competition.  Read all
about it here.
<https://medium.com/@richardeng/smalltalk-programming-competition-2be77cab0e75>  

My plan is to use Pharo for this competition, even if it makes companies
like Cincom and Instantiations unhappy.

Any support this competition can receive would be greatly appreciated.



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

Tim Mackinnon
I don’t think it would make Cincom and instantiations unhappy - they recognise how Pharo and Oss feed an interesting pipeline - if you need more support or just commercial backing, they can offer that (not that Pharo can’t - but it’s a handy symbiotic relationship that seems to work well)

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Jun 2018, at 00:12, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> FYI, I am trying to jumpstart a Smalltalk programming competition.  Read all
> about it here.
> <https://medium.com/@richardeng/smalltalk-programming-competition-2be77cab0e75>  
>
> My plan is to use Pharo for this competition, even if it makes companies
> like Cincom and Instantiations unhappy.
>
> Any support this competition can receive would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2
In reply to this post by horrido
H :-),


On 16/06/18 18:12, horrido wrote:
> FYI, I am trying to jumpstart a Smalltalk programming competition.  Read all
> about it here.
> <https://medium.com/@richardeng/smalltalk-programming-competition-2be77cab0e75>  
>
> My plan is to use Pharo for this competition, even if it makes companies
> like Cincom and Instantiations unhappy.
>
> Any support this competition can receive would be greatly appreciated.

I just tweeted about it.

I'm not into a competition spirit, so I would like to think in other
possibilities to fund Pharo, even in the main goal is not reached (USD $
30k). For example, I remember Mozilla thinking in Mozilla Spaces (kind
of hacker/maker spaces for Open Web learning by doing in a community
mindset). Our local hackerspaces cost something like USD $6.5K a year
and it has been a good Pharo Space for almost three years of continuous
activities and several outputs and prototypes as detailed at [1]. I'm
not telling that you should invest in us particularly, but that even
from and alternative perspective that is not related with funding
individuals but communities, the same money that allows only 3
scholarships of individuals after competing each other, would make 4 or
5 communities sustainable in the Global South for a year, related with
Pharo and other activities and here we have the advantage of not having
a lot of technical debt with popular languages well spread in all
population, like happens in the Global North.

[1]
http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Docs/En/success-story.md

Maybe these ideas could help in some way when combined with yours and
allow you a model for flexible funding, like the one of Indie GoGo, so
instead of a all or nothing funding for the competence, you could have a
modular approach that allow you to fund several Pharospaces across the
world, for each USD 6.5k you get, starting with those located in the
Global South (which can be more potent, more agile and cheaper).

Just my two pesos.

Cheers,

Offray


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
I appreciate what you're saying, and certainly the things you want to see
funded are worthwhile. However, the goals for my programming competition are
quite different, for example:

#1 – raise the public profile of Smalltalk across a broad swath of the
population in Canada and other countries. Word of mouth about the
competition will spread beyond Canada, esp. after the winners of the
competition gain some local media coverage.

#2 – generate excitement and interest in kids, esp. at the high school
level. There's nothing better than a sports-like competition to achieve
this.

#3 – by generating interest in kids, we seed the next generation of
programmers with knowledge and experience in Smalltalk. This is not unlike
the way interest in Linux grew from students in colleges and universities
throughout recent decades.

#4 – convince educators to include Smalltalk in their curriculums. I don't
know what programming languages are being taught in high schools, but I know
it's not Smalltalk. I tried reaching out to local school boards, but they
showed no interest.

In colleges and universities, the most commonly taught languages are Python
and Java. At least, that's the case in North America, I don't know about
Europe. I hope to open their eyes to Smalltalk.

This is a decidedly marketing-based approach, something that I don't believe
any other programming language has tried. It's a worthwhile experiment, and
that's why I hope Smalltalkers everywhere will stand behind it.


Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2 wrote

> H :-),
>
>
> On 16/06/18 18:12, horrido wrote:
>> FYI, I am trying to jumpstart a Smalltalk programming competition.  Read
>> all
>> about it here.
>> &lt;https://medium.com/@richardeng/smalltalk-programming-competition-2be77cab0e75&gt; 
>>
>> My plan is to use Pharo for this competition, even if it makes companies
>> like Cincom and Instantiations unhappy.
>>
>> Any support this competition can receive would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I just tweeted about it.
>
> I'm not into a competition spirit, so I would like to think in other
> possibilities to fund Pharo, even in the main goal is not reached (USD $
> 30k). For example, I remember Mozilla thinking in Mozilla Spaces (kind
> of hacker/maker spaces for Open Web learning by doing in a community
> mindset). Our local hackerspaces cost something like USD $6.5K a year
> and it has been a good Pharo Space for almost three years of continuous
> activities and several outputs and prototypes as detailed at [1]. I'm
> not telling that you should invest in us particularly, but that even
> from and alternative perspective that is not related with funding
> individuals but communities, the same money that allows only 3
> scholarships of individuals after competing each other, would make 4 or
> 5 communities sustainable in the Global South for a year, related with
> Pharo and other activities and here we have the advantage of not having
> a lot of technical debt with popular languages well spread in all
> population, like happens in the Global North.
>
> [1]
> http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Docs/En/success-story.md
>
> Maybe these ideas could help in some way when combined with yours and
> allow you a model for flexible funding, like the one of Indie GoGo, so
> instead of a all or nothing funding for the competence, you could have a
> modular approach that allow you to fund several Pharospaces across the
> world, for each USD 6.5k you get, starting with those located in the
> Global South (which can be more potent, more agile and cheaper).
>
> Just my two pesos.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
In reply to this post by horrido
I've finalized the name of the competition: The James Robertson Memorial
Programming Competition. The late James Robertson was a tireless advocate
for Smalltalk. He gave many presentations, wrote blogs and produced videos.
This competition honours him and his body of work.

<http://forum.world.st/file/t128560/JRMPC_Promo.jpg>



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
I'm disappointed in the response. Only two contributors of $100 each. This is
extremely tepid.

There must be thousands of Smalltalkers around the world. How to reach out
to them? It can't be that hard to fund this contest. I mean, there are many
stupid causes on GoFundMe that have raised tens of thousands of dollars!
This Smalltalk programming competition is anything but stupid.

If only 1500 Smalltalkers each contributed a paltry $20, the contest would
be fully funded. It would only take 300 contributors of $100 each.

The question is: How much do we care about the future of Smalltalk?



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

SergeStinckwich
hi Horrido,

I would like to thank you for your effort to organize this competition.

But for the amount you are asking (30K USD), I don't expect that much people to participate if you don't give them
more feedback and information on your project. You have too look how successful crowdfunding campaigns are working.
Recently, one of my friend Gael Duval organize a crowd campaign to fund a a new mobile OS that is privacy-enable and ask 25K Euros (less than you, but receive 95K Euros at the end) and put a lot of energy and info during several months too convince people:

Ok, the subject is completely different and maybe his topic is sensible for a lot of people but the concerns are the same. At the end, you need to convince people to give you money.

What is your budget ? what kind of competition you will organize ? how you will convince schools/university to participate ?
How you will reward people for their participation ?

Sorry to say, people will not give money just because you wrote a half-page statement.

Best,

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:23 AM horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm disappointed in the response. Only two contributors of $100 each. This is
extremely tepid.

There must be thousands of Smalltalkers around the world. How to reach out
to them? It can't be that hard to fund this contest. I mean, there are many
stupid causes on GoFundMe that have raised tens of thousands of dollars!
This Smalltalk programming competition is anything but stupid.

If only 1500 Smalltalkers each contributed a paltry $20, the contest would
be fully funded. It would only take 300 contributors of $100 each.

The question is: How much do we care about the future of Smalltalk?



--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html



--
Serge Stinckwich
UMI UMMISCO 209 (SU/IRD/UY1)
"Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute."
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

Tim Mackinnon
In reply to this post by horrido
I noticed that your gofundme update email went into my spam mail box - so I wasn’t aware it had gone live.

Are you able to apply the funds from your previous campaign (The Ultimate Smalltalk Tutorial) to this one? As a contributor to that last one - which unfortunately didn’t manage to deliver like you hoped, I am a little hesitant… I think this is often the way, we need to feel like its something that has gathered enough moment to  succeed otherwise what happens to the money collected?

Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of your tutorials (it reignited my interested a few years back) - so don’t count me out yet.

Tim

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 11:23, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'm disappointed in the response. Only two contributors of $100 each. This is
> extremely tepid.
>
> There must be thousands of Smalltalkers around the world. How to reach out
> to them? It can't be that hard to fund this contest. I mean, there are many
> stupid causes on GoFundMe that have raised tens of thousands of dollars!
> This Smalltalk programming competition is anything but stupid.
>
> If only 1500 Smalltalkers each contributed a paltry $20, the contest would
> be fully funded. It would only take 300 contributors of $100 each.
>
> The question is: How much do we care about the future of Smalltalk?
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

Richard O'Keefe
In reply to this post by horrido
Programming languages used in high-schools here include
Scratch, Javascript, and Python.
Myself, I've always had a fondness for StarLogo/NetLogo.


On 19 June 2018 at 15:08, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
I appreciate what you're saying, and certainly the things you want to see
funded are worthwhile. However, the goals for my programming competition are
quite different, for example:

#1 – raise the public profile of Smalltalk across a broad swath of the
population in Canada and other countries. Word of mouth about the
competition will spread beyond Canada, esp. after the winners of the
competition gain some local media coverage.

#2 – generate excitement and interest in kids, esp. at the high school
level. There's nothing better than a sports-like competition to achieve
this.

#3 – by generating interest in kids, we seed the next generation of
programmers with knowledge and experience in Smalltalk. This is not unlike
the way interest in Linux grew from students in colleges and universities
throughout recent decades.

#4 – convince educators to include Smalltalk in their curriculums. I don't
know what programming languages are being taught in high schools, but I know
it's not Smalltalk. I tried reaching out to local school boards, but they
showed no interest.

In colleges and universities, the most commonly taught languages are Python
and Java. At least, that's the case in North America, I don't know about
Europe. I hope to open their eyes to Smalltalk.

This is a decidedly marketing-based approach, something that I don't believe
any other programming language has tried. It's a worthwhile experiment, and
that's why I hope Smalltalkers everywhere will stand behind it.


Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas-2 wrote
> H :-),
>
>
> On 16/06/18 18:12, horrido wrote:
>> FYI, I am trying to jumpstart a Smalltalk programming competition.  Read
>> all
>> about it here.
>> &lt;https://medium.com/@richardeng/smalltalk-programming-competition-2be77cab0e75&gt
>>
>> My plan is to use Pharo for this competition, even if it makes companies
>> like Cincom and Instantiations unhappy.
>>
>> Any support this competition can receive would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I just tweeted about it.
>
> I'm not into a competition spirit, so I would like to think in other
> possibilities to fund Pharo, even in the main goal is not reached (USD $
> 30k). For example, I remember Mozilla thinking in Mozilla Spaces (kind
> of hacker/maker spaces for Open Web learning by doing in a community
> mindset). Our local hackerspaces cost something like USD $6.5K a year
> and it has been a good Pharo Space for almost three years of continuous
> activities and several outputs and prototypes as detailed at [1]. I'm
> not telling that you should invest in us particularly, but that even
> from and alternative perspective that is not related with funding
> individuals but communities, the same money that allows only 3
> scholarships of individuals after competing each other, would make 4 or
> 5 communities sustainable in the Global South for a year, related with
> Pharo and other activities and here we have the advantage of not having
> a lot of technical debt with popular languages well spread in all
> population, like happens in the Global North.
>
> [1]
> http://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Docs/En/success-story.md
>
> Maybe these ideas could help in some way when combined with yours and
> allow you a model for flexible funding, like the one of Indie GoGo, so
> instead of a all or nothing funding for the competence, you could have a
> modular approach that allow you to fund several Pharospaces across the
> world, for each USD 6.5k you get, starting with those located in the
> Global South (which can be more potent, more agile and cheaper).
>
> Just my two pesos.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray






Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
In reply to this post by SergeStinckwich
One small correction: it's CA$30,000, not US$30,000. Given the exchange rate,
it's actually considerably LESS money!


SergeStinckwich wrote

> hi Horrido,
>
> I would like to thank you for your effort to organize this competition.
>
> But for the amount you are asking (30K USD), I don't expect that much
> people to participate if you don't give them
> more feedback and information on your project. You have too look how
> successful crowdfunding campaigns are working.
> Recently, one of my friend Gael Duval organize a crowd campaign to fund a
> a
> new mobile OS that is privacy-enable and ask 25K Euros (less than you, but
> receive 95K Euros at the end) and put a lot of energy and info during
> several months too convince people:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/290746744/eelo-a-mobile-os-and-web-services-in-the-public-in
>
> Ok, the subject is completely different and maybe his topic is sensible
> for
> a lot of people but the concerns are the same. At the end, you need to
> convince people to give you money.
>
> What is your budget ? what kind of competition you will organize ? how you
> will convince schools/university to participate ?
> How you will reward people for their participation ?
>
> Sorry to say, people will not give money just because you wrote a
> half-page
> statement.
>
> Best,
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:23 AM horrido &lt;

> horrido.hobbies@

> &gt; wrote:
>
>> I'm disappointed in the response. Only two contributors of $100 each.
>> This
>> is
>> extremely tepid.
>>
>> There must be thousands of Smalltalkers around the world. How to reach
>> out
>> to them? It can't be that hard to fund this contest. I mean, there are
>> many
>> stupid causes on GoFundMe that have raised tens of thousands of dollars!
>> This Smalltalk programming competition is anything but stupid.
>>
>> If only 1500 Smalltalkers each contributed a paltry $20, the contest
>> would
>> be fully funded. It would only take 300 contributors of $100 each.
>>
>> The question is: How much do we care about the future of Smalltalk?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>>
>>
>
> --
> Serge Stinckwich
> UMI UMMISCO 209 (SU/IRD/UY1)
> "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for
> machines to execute."http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
In reply to this post by SergeStinckwich
This is a proof of concept video. With full funding, I shall produce a
version without Powtoon branding and in HD (720p) format. It's for marketing
the competition:

https://youtu.be/OCWBERJmrss


SergeStinckwich wrote

> hi Horrido,
>
> I would like to thank you for your effort to organize this competition.
>
> But for the amount you are asking (30K USD), I don't expect that much
> people to participate if you don't give them
> more feedback and information on your project. You have too look how
> successful crowdfunding campaigns are working.
> Recently, one of my friend Gael Duval organize a crowd campaign to fund a
> a
> new mobile OS that is privacy-enable and ask 25K Euros (less than you, but
> receive 95K Euros at the end) and put a lot of energy and info during
> several months too convince people:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/290746744/eelo-a-mobile-os-and-web-services-in-the-public-in
>
> Ok, the subject is completely different and maybe his topic is sensible
> for
> a lot of people but the concerns are the same. At the end, you need to
> convince people to give you money.
>
> What is your budget ? what kind of competition you will organize ? how you
> will convince schools/university to participate ?
> How you will reward people for their participation ?
>
> Sorry to say, people will not give money just because you wrote a
> half-page
> statement.
>
> Best,
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:23 AM horrido &lt;

> horrido.hobbies@

> &gt; wrote:
>
>> I'm disappointed in the response. Only two contributors of $100 each.
>> This
>> is
>> extremely tepid.
>>
>> There must be thousands of Smalltalkers around the world. How to reach
>> out
>> to them? It can't be that hard to fund this contest. I mean, there are
>> many
>> stupid causes on GoFundMe that have raised tens of thousands of dollars!
>> This Smalltalk programming competition is anything but stupid.
>>
>> If only 1500 Smalltalkers each contributed a paltry $20, the contest
>> would
>> be fully funded. It would only take 300 contributors of $100 each.
>>
>> The question is: How much do we care about the future of Smalltalk?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>>
>>
>
> --
> Serge Stinckwich
> UMI UMMISCO 209 (SU/IRD/UY1)
> "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for
> machines to execute."http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
In reply to this post by Tim Mackinnon
The first attempt at a competition was a Kickstarter campaign. No money was
collected, because Kickstarter is an all-or-nothing affair. (In other words,
you didn't actually lose any money.)

Cincom had pledged $5,000, but because it was all-or-nothing, they wriggled
out of it. Otherwise, we could've run a downscaled competition. I've learned
from that mistake and chosen to use GoFundMe.

If necessary, I shall run a downscaled competition, assuming that I get
reasonable funding. The last thing I want to do is run a chintzy peanuts
contest; it would do absolutely nothing for Smalltalk.


Tim Mackinnon wrote

> I noticed that your gofundme update email went into my spam mail box - so
> I wasn’t aware it had gone live.
>
> Are you able to apply the funds from your previous campaign (The Ultimate
> Smalltalk Tutorial) to this one? As a contributor to that last one - which
> unfortunately didn’t manage to deliver like you hoped, I am a little
> hesitant… I think this is often the way, we need to feel like its
> something that has gathered enough moment to  succeed otherwise what
> happens to the money collected?
>
> Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of your tutorials (it reignited my
> interested a few years back) - so don’t count me out yet.
>
> Tim
>
>> On 21 Jun 2018, at 11:23, horrido &lt;

> horrido.hobbies@

> &gt; wrote:
>>
>> I'm disappointed in the response. Only two contributors of $100 each.
>> This is
>> extremely tepid.
>>
>> There must be thousands of Smalltalkers around the world. How to reach
>> out
>> to them? It can't be that hard to fund this contest. I mean, there are
>> many
>> stupid causes on GoFundMe that have raised tens of thousands of dollars!
>> This Smalltalk programming competition is anything but stupid.
>>
>> If only 1500 Smalltalkers each contributed a paltry $20, the contest
>> would
>> be fully funded. It would only take 300 contributors of $100 each.
>>
>> The question is: How much do we care about the future of Smalltalk?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>>





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
In reply to this post by SergeStinckwich
I hear what you're saying. Here's my rationale...

#1. As far as I know, I'm the only person on the planet who has worked
full-time and without pay as a programming language advocate for nearly four
years. Did I mention full-time and without pay? So I think you can trust me
to deliver, come hell or high water.

#2. For the past four years, I've shown my marketing skills in promoting
Smalltalk. If you believe I've done a good job, then you can trust me to
convince schools and the media to stand behind the competition. If you don't
believe, then ignore me; I cannot convince you otherwise.

#3. It is not my style to plan everything in advance and in detail. I do
things by the seat of my pants, relying on my organizational skills,
communication skills, and intuition. (That's how I develop software, too.) I
can picture the whole competition in my mind and I trust my vision. I'm
asking others to trust it, as well. If they don't, then this whole thing
dies with me.

In the final analysis, all I can do is my very best. I am who I am. If you
don't believe in me, that's okay.


SergeStinckwich wrote

> Ok, the subject is completely different and maybe his topic is sensible
> for
> a lot of people but the concerns are the same. At the end, you need to
> convince people to give you money.
>
> What is your budget ? what kind of competition you will organize ? how you
> will convince schools/university to participate ?
> How you will reward people for their participation ?
>
> Sorry to say, people will not give money just because you wrote a
> half-page
> statement.
>
> Best,





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

Travis Ayres
You worked without pay? ...why?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 8:53 AM horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
I hear what you're saying. Here's my rationale...

#1. As far as I know, I'm the only person on the planet who has worked
full-time and without pay as a programming language advocate for nearly four
years. Did I mention full-time and without pay? So I think you can trust me
to deliver, come hell or high water.

#2. For the past four years, I've shown my marketing skills in promoting
Smalltalk. If you believe I've done a good job, then you can trust me to
convince schools and the media to stand behind the competition. If you don't
believe, then ignore me; I cannot convince you otherwise.

#3. It is not my style to plan everything in advance and in detail. I do
things by the seat of my pants, relying on my organizational skills,
communication skills, and intuition. (That's how I develop software, too.) I
can picture the whole competition in my mind and I trust my vision. I'm
asking others to trust it, as well. If they don't, then this whole thing
dies with me.

In the final analysis, all I can do is my very best. I am who I am. If you
don't believe in me, that's okay.


SergeStinckwich wrote
> Ok, the subject is completely different and maybe his topic is sensible
> for
> a lot of people but the concerns are the same. At the end, you need to
> convince people to give you money.
>
> What is your budget ? what kind of competition you will organize ? how you
> will convince schools/university to participate ?
> How you will reward people for their participation ?
>
> Sorry to say, people will not give money just because you wrote a
> half-page
> statement.
>
> Best,





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by horrido
It will be far more fun for the kids if we had PyGame (itself based on
SDL) like package on Pharo.

Hilaire


Le 21/06/2018 à 17:52, horrido a écrit :

> I hear what you're saying. Here's my rationale...
>
> #1. As far as I know, I'm the only person on the planet who has worked
> full-time and without pay as a programming language advocate for nearly four
> years. Did I mention full-time and without pay? So I think you can trust me
> to deliver, come hell or high water.
>
> #2. For the past four years, I've shown my marketing skills in promoting
> Smalltalk. If you believe I've done a good job, then you can trust me to
> convince schools and the media to stand behind the competition. If you don't
> believe, then ignore me; I cannot convince you otherwise.
>
> #3. It is not my style to plan everything in advance and in detail. I do
> things by the seat of my pants, relying on my organizational skills,
> communication skills, and intuition. (That's how I develop software, too.) I
> can picture the whole competition in my mind and I trust my vision. I'm
> asking others to trust it, as well. If they don't, then this whole thing
> dies with me.
>
> In the final analysis, all I can do is my very best. I am who I am. If you
> don't believe in me, that's okay.
>

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
In reply to this post by Travis Ayres
#1. Who would pay me??? No company nor organization (even Smalltalk-related)
cares enough about Smalltalk to hire a full-time advocate.

And even if they did, I have no track record at all in marketing and
advocacy. They're buying a pig in a poke.

#2. It I didn't step up, no one would. There is no other person on this
planet who has the time nor inclination to take on this huge, thankless
task.

Smalltalk deserves a better fate than to languish in obscurity. It is so sad
and pitiful to see where it is today, especially when it was once the most
popular OO language in the world after C++. Smalltalk just barely made it
onto the Top 100 at TIOBE this year. Just barely.

#3. I believe in Smalltalk. More importantly, I believe that the language
has the power to transform the software industry. If it can double the
world's software development productivity – on average – imagine the impact
on the global economy. I'm not spewing bullsh*t here.

So this is my personal belief at work.

#4. I saw a unique opportunity. Of all the less-than-major programming
languages in the world (Clojure, Crystal, Dart, Elixir, Elm, F#, Go,
Haskell, Haxe, Julia, Kotlin, Nim, Racket, Red, Rust, etc.), Smalltalk is
the easiest one to advocate for. It's the one with the best chances of
success. Why?

- its historical legacy
- its actual popularity in the 1990s
- its commercial track record
- its technical merits like simplicity, conciseness, live coding, etc.
- its scientifically proven productivity, thanks to Namcook Analytics

All of this allows me to tell a good story. A damn good story. And that's
absolutely key in any marketing campaign.

I could've devoted my time and energy to Elixir or Go or Nim. But it
wouldn't have been nearly as satisfying. I saw an opportunity, and I took
it. And I haven't looked back.



Travis Ayres wrote
> You worked without pay? ...why?
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 8:53 AM horrido &lt;

> horrido.hobbies@

> &gt; wrote:
>
>> I hear what you're saying. Here's my rationale...
>>
>> #1. As far as I know, I'm the only person on the planet who has worked
>> full-time and without pay as a programming language advocate for nearly
>> four
>> years. Did I mention full-time and without pay? So I think you can trust
>> me
>> to deliver, come hell or high water.
>>
>> #2. For the past four years, I've shown my marketing skills in promoting
>> Smalltalk. If you believe I've done a good job, then you can trust me to
>> convince schools and the media to stand behind the competition. If you
>> don't
>> believe, then ignore me; I cannot convince you otherwise.
>>
>> #3. It is not my style to plan everything in advance and in detail. I do
>> things by the seat of my pants, relying on my organizational skills,
>> communication skills, and intuition. (That's how I develop software,
>> too.)
>> I
>> can picture the whole competition in my mind and I trust my vision. I'm
>> asking others to trust it, as well. If they don't, then this whole thing
>> dies with me.
>>
>> In the final analysis, all I can do is my very best. I am who I am. If
>> you
>> don't believe in me, that's okay.
>>
>>
>> SergeStinckwich wrote
>> > Ok, the subject is completely different and maybe his topic is sensible
>> > for
>> > a lot of people but the concerns are the same. At the end, you need to
>> > convince people to give you money.
>> >
>> > What is your budget ? what kind of competition you will organize ? how
>> you
>> > will convince schools/university to participate ?
>> > How you will reward people for their participation ?
>> >
>> > Sorry to say, people will not give money just because you wrote a
>> > half-page
>> > statement.
>> >
>> > Best,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
>>
>>





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

Esteban A. Maringolo
In reply to this post by horrido
On 21/06/2018 07:23, horrido wrote:

> I'm disappointed in the response. Only two contributors of $100 each. This is
> extremely tepid.
>
> There must be thousands of Smalltalkers around the world. How to reach out
> to them? It can't be that hard to fund this contest. I mean, there are many
> stupid causes on GoFundMe that have raised tens of thousands of dollars!
> This Smalltalk programming competition is anything but stupid.
>
> If only 1500 Smalltalkers each contributed a paltry $20, the contest would
> be fully funded. It would only take 300 contributors of $100 each.
I think that money is the wrong incentive to get people involved.

You can't pay students to get them converted. Massive propagation of
ideas these days are horizontal rather than vertical. It is, breadth
first, word of mouth, instead of authoritative articles, this kind of
competition, etc. Your articles did a good job of rising awareness, but
there is a lot missing.

If you want to get MORE (quantity) people involved, you need to make
Pharo more "pop cultured" as many mainstream tools are seen, and that
itself means becoming more mainstream or follow certain practices, which
also means having success stories people would like to imitate, etc.

Even if we get people like Kent Beck, Martin Fowler, any other
"influencer" aware of the benefits of Smalltalk to recommend it, the
downloads would spike, but I bet one leg the users will bounce as fast
as they download it.

IMO if we don't understand that as a community, Pharo will still have
it's niche user base. Not that I dislike it, but I would be more
comfortable as a niche but with a bigger user base.

Regards,

--
Esteban A. Maringolo

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

horrido
Indeed, these have been the main goals of my marketing campaign:

- spread the word through social media (word of mouth)
- try to make Smalltalk look "cool" and fascinating (pop-cultured)
- emphasize that Smalltalk is web-ready, since the whole world seems to be
going ga-ga over the web (popular practices)
- restore the lustre of OOP, since there has been a growing anti-OOP
sentiment for years now
- present success stories, even if most of these are from staid corporations
and government

Believe me, I've incorporated elements of these in many, many of my
articles, blog posts, tweets, Facebook posts, etc.

And I firmly believe the JRM competition will add to the excitement and cool
factor, if it's done right.



Esteban A. Maringolo wrote

> On 21/06/2018 07:23, horrido wrote:
>> I'm disappointed in the response. Only two contributors of $100 each.
>> This is
>> extremely tepid.
>>
>> There must be thousands of Smalltalkers around the world. How to reach
>> out
>> to them? It can't be that hard to fund this contest. I mean, there are
>> many
>> stupid causes on GoFundMe that have raised tens of thousands of dollars!
>> This Smalltalk programming competition is anything but stupid.
>>
>> If only 1500 Smalltalkers each contributed a paltry $20, the contest
>> would
>> be fully funded. It would only take 300 contributors of $100 each.
> I think that money is the wrong incentive to get people involved.
>
> You can't pay students to get them converted. Massive propagation of
> ideas these days are horizontal rather than vertical. It is, breadth
> first, word of mouth, instead of authoritative articles, this kind of
> competition, etc. Your articles did a good job of rising awareness, but
> there is a lot missing.
>
> If you want to get MORE (quantity) people involved, you need to make
> Pharo more "pop cultured" as many mainstream tools are seen, and that
> itself means becoming more mainstream or follow certain practices, which
> also means having success stories people would like to imitate, etc.
>
> Even if we get people like Kent Beck, Martin Fowler, any other
> "influencer" aware of the benefits of Smalltalk to recommend it, the
> downloads would spike, but I bet one leg the users will bounce as fast
> as they download it.
>
> IMO if we don't understand that as a community, Pharo will still have
> it's niche user base. Not that I dislike it, but I would be more
> comfortable as a niche but with a bigger user base.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Esteban A. Maringolo





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

Travis Ayres
It will be the most exciting $200 programming competition ever. 

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 4:41 PM horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
Indeed, these have been the main goals of my marketing campaign:

- spread the word through social media (word of mouth)
- try to make Smalltalk look "cool" and fascinating (pop-cultured)
- emphasize that Smalltalk is web-ready, since the whole world seems to be
going ga-ga over the web (popular practices)
- restore the lustre of OOP, since there has been a growing anti-OOP
sentiment for years now
- present success stories, even if most of these are from staid corporations
and government

Believe me, I've incorporated elements of these in many, many of my
articles, blog posts, tweets, Facebook posts, etc.

And I firmly believe the JRM competition will add to the excitement and cool
factor, if it's done right.



Esteban A. Maringolo wrote
> On 21/06/2018 07:23, horrido wrote:
>> I'm disappointed in the response. Only two contributors of $100 each.
>> This is
>> extremely tepid.
>>
>> There must be thousands of Smalltalkers around the world. How to reach
>> out
>> to them? It can't be that hard to fund this contest. I mean, there are
>> many
>> stupid causes on GoFundMe that have raised tens of thousands of dollars!
>> This Smalltalk programming competition is anything but stupid.
>>
>> If only 1500 Smalltalkers each contributed a paltry $20, the contest
>> would
>> be fully funded. It would only take 300 contributors of $100 each.
> I think that money is the wrong incentive to get people involved.
>
> You can't pay students to get them converted. Massive propagation of
> ideas these days are horizontal rather than vertical. It is, breadth
> first, word of mouth, instead of authoritative articles, this kind of
> competition, etc. Your articles did a good job of rising awareness, but
> there is a lot missing.
>
> If you want to get MORE (quantity) people involved, you need to make
> Pharo more "pop cultured" as many mainstream tools are seen, and that
> itself means becoming more mainstream or follow certain practices, which
> also means having success stories people would like to imitate, etc.
>
> Even if we get people like Kent Beck, Martin Fowler, any other
> "influencer" aware of the benefits of Smalltalk to recommend it, the
> downloads would spike, but I bet one leg the users will bounce as fast
> as they download it.
>
> IMO if we don't understand that as a community, Pharo will still have
> it's niche user base. Not that I dislike it, but I would be more
> comfortable as a niche but with a bigger user base.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Esteban A. Maringolo





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smalltalk Programming Competition

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by horrido

SergeStinckwich wrote
> Ok, the subject is completely different and maybe his topic is sensible
> for a lot of people but the concerns are the same. At the end, you need to
> convince people to give you money.
> 
> What is your budget ? what kind of competition you will organize ? how you
> will convince schools/university to participate ?
> How you will reward people for their participation ?
> 
> Sorry to say, people will not give money just because you wrote a
> half-page statement.
 

On 21 June 2018 at 23:52, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
I hear what you're saying. Here's my rationale...

#1. As far as I know, I'm the only person on the planet who has worked
full-time and without pay as a programming language advocate for nearly four
years. Did I mention full-time and without pay? So I think you can trust me
to deliver, come hell or high water.

I applaud your commitment, but there are many people giving free time to Pharo
(although more technical oriented than pure advocacy)

 
#2. For the past four years, I've shown my marketing skills in promoting
Smalltalk. If you believe I've done a good job, then you can trust me to
convince schools and the media to stand behind the competition. If you don't
believe, then ignore me; I cannot convince you otherwise.

Its not just marketing skills that are important here, but logistics.
 

#3. It is not my style to plan everything in advance and in detail. I do
things by the seat of my pants, relying on my organizational skills,
communication skills, and intuition. (That's how I develop software, too.) I
can picture the whole competition in my mind and I trust my vision. I'm
asking others to trust it, as well. If they don't, then this whole thing
dies with me.

But that vision is just in *your* head. So its easy for you to trust your plan,
while we don't get an opportunity to trust your plan, we only get the choice to trust you,
and while I don't doubt your intent, I'm not clear on your ability to deliver.
You've got no *demonstrated* experience in this area of geographically dispersed competitions with kids,
so naturally that affects people's confidence in your ability to deliver.

Now if you could team up with an organisation like CoderDojo 
and leverage their proven experience running the logistics to motivate kids to program 
and also their existing network of kid programming teams and mentors, 
I'd be much more interested.

My assessment comes down to direct personal experience (the ultimate root of trust)
where in my town of just 5000 people (Collie) two hours south of 
the most remote capital city in the world (Perth, measured as distance to next closest capital city)
there is a CoderDojo group that my kids got involved with for a while (before work took me away from home a lot).
Typically about 30 kids at a session each week.

I think you'll have more success tapping such a domain specific market than generic high schools.
From their 2017 annual report, they have 1542 active dojos in 92 countries,
regularly engaging 55000 young people with 8000 champions and mentors.

Coderdojo has a well established governance structure and "proven" reliability dealing with donated money.  
One or two teams from each dojo could make a very successful competition.
In such a case I don't think it need to be as much as $2000 prize for an individual (indeed that seems quite rich to me).
These kids are already programming "just for fun" and probably care less about which language.
A good approach would be half the prize going to the winning team and half to their dojo.   
A secondary benefit is that the dojo mentors get exposed to Pharo, many of whom are IT professionals.
The ultimate result would be Coderdojo picking up Pharo as one of their regular languages.

The downside of Coderdojo would be the average age of kids being late primary school level,
might not match your vision (but 10 is the the age I taught myself Basic from books).
Such a sponsored competition could entice back past members who faded out after "popularity" hit at high school. 
Coderdojo could advise.

Now since the younger kids program in Scratch, perhaps there could be synergy with a junior prize using Phratch,
particularly if its paired with the IoT activity with Pharo - maybe creating some kind of dynamic art installation.
And some mentors might contribute to Phratch and come to Pharo through that path.

 
In the final analysis, all I can do is my very best. I am who I am.

I'm sure you will give your best.  But success needs much more than intent.
A big question is... what is the "challenge".  I would imaging that is a very important
component of a successful hackthon. 

Perhaps another way to achieve similar results with less risk is to piggyback 
a series of existing hackathons.  Offer smaller sub-prizes for the best solution using Pharo. 
Then you don't need to provide a first, second and third prizes that accumulate to a large cost,
and all of the other logistics are taken care of by the existing organisation.

cheers -ben

P.S. Don't let our detractions discourage you. Adapt and overcome.... :)  
12