Smalltalk vs SmalltalkImage current woes

> I am currently using the Cuis, which doesn't having a 'SmalltalkImage
> current' refactoring..
> And this difference is a bit frustrating to me, especially when code
> which have to be ported from Squeak,
> i need to visit all the places and fix the references.
>
> I was not here when this change was introduced, and you maybe know ,
> that i'm a heated enemy of global state.
> But i understand the reasoning of dissection the Smalltalk dictionary
> of globals from the rest of service methods & additional state,
> which is needed and which were putted in SmalltalkImage class.
>
> But the more i thinking about it, the more i feel that this
> 'dissection' can be done in least intrusive way which is much
> friendlier to 'old ways'
> but also plays well with 'current ways'.
>
> So, what i'm proposing:
>
> - make a dictionary of globals a pure dictionary, without any extra
> unrelated methods.
> - completely move all fat stuff into SmalltalkImage from  
> SystemDictionary class
> - add 'globals' ivar to SmalltalkImage class , and add proxy methods
> for accessing the dictionary, like #at: #at:put: etc.
>
> then simply:
> Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: (SmalltalkImage current).

> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:27:36 +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> I am currently using the Cuis, which doesn't having a 'SmalltalkImage
>> current' refactoring..
>> And this difference is a bit frustrating to me, especially when code
>> which have to be ported from Squeak,
>> i need to visit all the places and fix the references.
>>
>> I was not here when this change was introduced, and you maybe know ,
>> that i'm a heated enemy of global state.
>> But i understand the reasoning of dissection the Smalltalk dictionary
>> of globals from the rest of service methods & additional state,
>> which is needed and which were putted in SmalltalkImage class.
>>
>> But the more i thinking about it, the more i feel that this
>> 'dissection' can be done in least intrusive way which is much
>> friendlier to 'old ways'
>> but also plays well with 'current ways'.
>>
>> So, what i'm proposing:
>>
>> - make a dictionary of globals a pure dictionary, without any extra
>> unrelated methods.
>> - completely move all fat stuff into SmalltalkImage from SystemDictionary
>> class
>> - add 'globals' ivar to SmalltalkImage class , and add proxy methods
>> for accessing the dictionary, like #at: #at:put: etc.
>>
>> then simply:
>> Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: (SmalltalkImage current).
>
> This part will not work, check yourself:
>
>  (Smalltalk associationAt: #Smalltalk) inspect
>

> /Klaus
>
>> Now, Smalltalk == SmalltalkImage current and everyone is happy:
>>  - dictionary lives in separate ivar,
>>  - fat & boring housekeeping stuff lives in SmalltalkImage instance.
>>
>> What you think?
>>
>
>
>

> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:39:07 +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> 2009/7/24 Klaus D. Witzel :
> ...
>>>> So, what i'm proposing:
> ...
>>>> then simply:
>>>> Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: (SmalltalkImage current).
>>>
>>> This part will not work, check yourself:
>>>
>>>  (Smalltalk associationAt: #Smalltalk) inspect
>>>
>> in what way it wont work?
>
> I was responding to a practical issue, not a conceptual one; try
>
>  Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: Smalltalk
>
> then you should see why that's not possible.
>

>> I can implement #associationAt: in SmalltalkImage class, to proxy it
>> to globals ivar. What's wrong with it?
>
> With #associationAt: in SmalltalkImage? nothing, if it still makes sense.
>
>> Or do you mean, that we will end up with the need of proxying all
>> Collection protocol methods?
>
> Some of them: yes; unless you get rid of "Dictionary" users' view.
>
>> There always can be more radical solutions, like proxying rest of
>> stuff through DNU handler :)
>
> :)
>
>>> /Klaus
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

>> I was responding to a practical issue, not a conceptual one; try
>>
>>  Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: Smalltalk
>>
>> then you should see why that's not possible.
>>
> I don't see how this can be a barrier of any sort for a real hacker:
>
> (Smalltalk associationAt: #Smalltalk) becomeForward: (#Smalltalk ->  
> Smalltalk).
>
> Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: Smalltalk
>
> There are numerous ways how to get around this ;)

> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:53:47 +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> 2009/7/24 Klaus D. Witzel :
>
> ...
>>>
>>> I was responding to a practical issue, not a conceptual one; try
>>>
>>>  Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: Smalltalk
>>>
>>> then you should see why that's not possible.
>>>
>> I don't see how this can be a barrier of any sort for a real hacker:
>>
>> (Smalltalk associationAt: #Smalltalk) becomeForward: (#Smalltalk ->
>> Smalltalk).
>>
>> Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: Smalltalk
>>
>> There are numerous ways how to get around this ;)
>
> Have you considered rehash, .image save & load ?

> I am currently using the Cuis, which doesn't having a 'SmalltalkImage
> current' refactoring..
> And this difference is a bit frustrating to me, especially when code
> which have to be ported from Squeak,
> i need to visit all the places and fix the references.
>
> I was not here when this change was introduced, and you maybe know ,
> that i'm a heated enemy of global state.
> But i understand the reasoning of dissection the Smalltalk dictionary
> of globals from the rest of service methods & additional state,
> which is needed and which were putted in SmalltalkImage class.
>
> But the more i thinking about it, the more i feel that this
> 'dissection' can be done in least intrusive way which is much
> friendlier to 'old ways'
> but also plays well with 'current ways'.
>
> So, what i'm proposing:
>
> - make a dictionary of globals a pure dictionary, without any extra
> unrelated methods.
> - completely move all fat stuff into SmalltalkImage from  
> SystemDictionary class
> - add 'globals' ivar to SmalltalkImage class , and add proxy methods
> for accessing the dictionary, like #at: #at:put: etc.
>
> then simply:
> Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: (SmalltalkImage current).
>
> Now, Smalltalk == SmalltalkImage current and everyone is happy:
> - dictionary lives in separate ivar,
> - fat & boring housekeeping stuff lives in SmalltalkImage instance.
>
> What you think?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

>
> But i understand the reasoning of dissection the Smalltalk dictionary
> of globals from the rest of service methods & additional state,
> which is needed and which were putted in SmalltalkImage class.
>
> But the more i thinking about it, the more i feel that this
> 'dissection' can be done in least intrusive way which is much
> friendlier to 'old ways'
> but also plays well with 'current ways'.
>
> So, what i'm proposing:
>
> - make a dictionary of globals a pure dictionary, without any extra
> unrelated methods.
> - completely move all fat stuff into SmalltalkImage from  
> SystemDictionary class
> - add 'globals' ivar to SmalltalkImage class , and add proxy methods
> for accessing the dictionary, like #at: #at:put: etc.
>
> then simply:
> Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: (SmalltalkImage current).
>
> Now, Smalltalk == SmalltalkImage current and everyone is happy:
> - dictionary lives in separate ivar,
> - fat & boring housekeeping stuff lives in SmalltalkImage instance.
>
> What you think?

> I also like the idea since I always loose a few seconds to figure out
> where some method, like vmStatisticsReportString, is located. There
> are at least three different selectors used to access a singleton
> instance:
>
> SmalltalkImage current
> SystemNavigation default
> SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance
>
> I just can't remember them.

>
> Adrian
>
> On Jul 24, 2009, at 12:27 , Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> I am currently using the Cuis, which doesn't having a 'SmalltalkImage
>> current' refactoring..
>> And this difference is a bit frustrating to me, especially when code
>> which have to be ported from Squeak,
>> i need to visit all the places and fix the references.
>>
>> I was not here when this change was introduced, and you maybe know ,
>> that i'm a heated enemy of global state.
>> But i understand the reasoning of dissection the Smalltalk dictionary
>> of globals from the rest of service methods & additional state,
>> which is needed and which were putted in SmalltalkImage class.
>>
>> But the more i thinking about it, the more i feel that this
>> 'dissection' can be done in least intrusive way which is much
>> friendlier to 'old ways'
>> but also plays well with 'current ways'.
>>
>> So, what i'm proposing:
>>
>> - make a dictionary of globals a pure dictionary, without any extra
>> unrelated methods.
>> - completely move all fat stuff into SmalltalkImage from
>> SystemDictionary class
>> - add 'globals' ivar to SmalltalkImage class , and add proxy methods
>> for accessing the dictionary, like #at: #at:put: etc.
>>
>> then simply:
>> Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: (SmalltalkImage current).
>>
>> Now, Smalltalk == SmalltalkImage current and everyone is happy:
>> - dictionary lives in separate ivar,
>> - fat & boring housekeeping stuff lives in SmalltalkImage instance.
>>
>> What you think?
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

> This is why we started to clean SystemDictionary
> and people started to complain and we stop.
>>
>> But i understand the reasoning of dissection the Smalltalk dictionary
>> of globals from the rest of service methods & additional state,
>> which is needed and which were putted in SmalltalkImage class.
>>
>> But the more i thinking about it, the more i feel that this
>> 'dissection' can be done in least intrusive way which is much
>> friendlier to 'old ways'
>> but also plays well with 'current ways'.
>>
>> So, what i'm proposing:
>>
>> - make a dictionary of globals a pure dictionary, without any extra
>> unrelated methods.
>> - completely move all fat stuff into SmalltalkImage from
>> SystemDictionary class
>> - add 'globals' ivar to SmalltalkImage class , and add proxy methods
>> for accessing the dictionary, like #at: #at:put: etc.
>>
>> then simply:
>> Smalltalk at: #Smalltalk put: (SmalltalkImage current).
>>
>> Now, Smalltalk == SmalltalkImage current and everyone is happy:
>> - dictionary lives in separate ivar,
>> - fat & boring housekeeping stuff lives in SmalltalkImage instance.
>>
>> What you think?
>
> Yes this was the solution we envision to keep people happy.
> And one day cut the backlink.
>
> Stef
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>