Some Pharo 4 Getting-Started tips
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FWIW, I saw that other folks were getting confused by some of the same things that tripped me up initially, so I wrote up some tips here: http://devblog.avdi.org/2015/05/25/some-pharo-4-getting-started-tips/
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Re: Some Pharo 4 Getting-Started tips
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Great, thank you, it is important to help newcomers over these stumbling blocks that we no longer see.
> On 25 May 2015, at 16:38, Avdi Grimm <[hidden email]> wrote: > > FWIW, I saw that other folks were getting confused by some of the same things that tripped me up initially, so I wrote up some tips here: http://devblog.avdi.org/2015/05/25/some-pharo-4-getting-started-tips/ |
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Yes, it’s great to have an outside view of these things and have a well-written article with these tips. Maybe a link could be made on the documentation page? > On May 25, 2015, at 11:52, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Great, thank you, it is important to help newcomers over these stumbling blocks that we no longer see. > >> On 25 May 2015, at 16:38, Avdi Grimm <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> FWIW, I saw that other folks were getting confused by some of the same things that tripped me up initially, so I wrote up some tips here: http://devblog.avdi.org/2015/05/25/some-pharo-4-getting-started-tips/ > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile |
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In reply to this post by Avdi Grimm
On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Avdi Grimm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> http://devblog.avdi.org/2015/05/25/some-pharo-4-getting-started-tips/ Thanks Avdi. We should at least change the Nautilus title bar to "Nautilus System Browser" (or just "System Browser" ?) This would be a simple one for anyone wanting to dip their toe into the Pharo development workflow for the first time. Just log into Fogbugz and assign the issue to yourself. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15608 http://pharo.org/contribute-propose-fix cheers -ben |
Re: Some Pharo 4 Getting-Started tips
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Administrator
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Part of the problem is that we have overloaded system categories to package code for SCM. System categories should be tags (preferably multiple allowed) which offer a logical view of the system. Packages, the POV we show now, are orthogonal and much less useful for users. The other complication is that we have jumped onto the fad now to have cool names for all software projects which offer no guidance as to what the code actually does - a la Ruby, Sinatra, Rails. While this mysteriousness may generate excitement for the project, it seems far less useful once we integrate things in the image. What does/could Nautilus mean to a new user? Taking a cue from Mac - the core apps are called Mail, Contacts, Maps, Notes; not Sandcastle, Cabana, SkippingStone, and Umbrella ;) At least Opal has the word Compiler attached to it!
Cheers,
Sean |
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+1 to some side name to the main tools. I have my "grafoscopio" project,
but is a long shot to get into the image, and in Spanish it seems to work. Cheers, Offray El 25/05/15 a las 19:50, Sean P. DeNigris escribió: > Ben Coman wrote >> We should at least change the Nautilus title bar to "Nautilus System >> Browser" (or just "System Browser" ?) > > Part of the problem is that we have overloaded system categories to package > code for SCM. System categories should be tags (preferably multiple allowed) > which offer a logical view of the system. Packages, the POV we show now, are > orthogonal and much less useful for users. > > The other complication is that we have jumped onto the fad now to have cool > names for all software projects which offer no guidance as to what the code > actually does - a la Ruby, Sinatra, Rails. While this mysteriousness may > generate excitement for the project, it seems far less useful once we > integrate things in the image. What does/could Nautilus mean to a new user? > Taking a cue from Mac - the core apps are called Mail, Contacts, Maps, > Notes; not Sandcastle, Cabana, SkippingStone, and Umbrella ;) At least Opal > has the word Compiler attached to it! > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Some-Pharo-4-Getting-Started-tips-tp4828493p4828538.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > |
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In reply to this post by Ben Coman
Le 25/5/15 18:30, Ben Coman a écrit : > On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Avdi Grimm <[hidden email]> wrote: >> http://devblog.avdi.org/2015/05/25/some-pharo-4-getting-started-tips/ > Thanks Avdi. > > We should at least change the Nautilus title bar to "Nautilus System > Browser" (or just "System Browser" ?) Yes I thought the same Nautilus Systeme Browser is good. > > This would be a simple one for anyone wanting to dip their toe into > the Pharo development workflow for the first time. Just log into > Fogbugz and assign the issue to yourself. > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15608 > http://pharo.org/contribute-propose-fix > > cheers -ben > > |
Re: Some Pharo 4 Getting-Started tips
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Administrator
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In reply to this post by Avdi Grimm
Thanks! I added https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample/issues/102 to incorporate your suggestions.
Cheers,
Sean |
Re: Some Pharo 4 Getting-Started tips
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I think most of these are already addressed in the updated version. It's just that new users are still pointed to the older version. On Tue, May 26, 2015, 07:04 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
Avdi Grimm wrote |
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In reply to this post by Sean P. DeNigris
On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ben Coman wrote >> We should at least change the Nautilus title bar to "Nautilus System >> Browser" (or just "System Browser" ?) > > Part of the problem is that we have overloaded system categories to package > code for SCM. System categories should be tags (preferably multiple allowed) > which offer a logical view of the system. Packages, the POV we show now, are > orthogonal and much less useful for users. > > The other complication is that we have jumped onto the fad now to have cool > names for all software projects which offer no guidance as to what the code > actually does - a la Ruby, Sinatra, Rails. While this mysteriousness may > generate excitement for the project, it seems far less useful once we > integrate things in the image. What does/could Nautilus mean to a new user? > Taking a cue from Mac - the core apps are called Mail, Contacts, Maps, > Notes; not Sandcastle, Cabana, SkippingStone, and Umbrella ;) At least Opal > has the word Compiler attached to it! Agreed. Also take a cue from Microsoft and their successful applications (I wonder what they could possibly be uesed for?): * Word * SQLServer * Internet Explorer * Publisher * Media Player Of course the incumbent players have the luxury of already having an audience to take the dominant position on the app names. But the situation is a bit the same for tools delivered by by default with the standard Image. cheers -ben |
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Hi,
> On 26 May 2015, at 18:16, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Ben Coman wrote >>> We should at least change the Nautilus title bar to "Nautilus System >>> Browser" (or just "System Browser" ?) >> >> Part of the problem is that we have overloaded system categories to package >> code for SCM. System categories should be tags (preferably multiple allowed) >> which offer a logical view of the system. Packages, the POV we show now, are >> orthogonal and much less useful for users. >> >> The other complication is that we have jumped onto the fad now to have cool >> names for all software projects which offer no guidance as to what the code >> actually does - a la Ruby, Sinatra, Rails. While this mysteriousness may >> generate excitement for the project, it seems far less useful once we >> integrate things in the image. What does/could Nautilus mean to a new user? >> Taking a cue from Mac - the core apps are called Mail, Contacts, Maps, >> Notes; not Sandcastle, Cabana, SkippingStone, and Umbrella ;) At least Opal >> has the word Compiler attached to it! > > Agreed. Also take a cue from Microsoft and their successful > applications (I wonder what they could possibly be uesed for?): > * Word > * SQLServer > * Internet Explorer > * Publisher > * Media Player > > Of course the incumbent players have the luxury of already having an > audience to take the dominant position on the app names. But the > situation is a bit the same for tools delivered by by default with the > standard Image. I disagree with this way. We are not building an OS (regardless the original intentions of smalltalk) and this profusion of names are generating more confusion than benefits, thinking on new users. For me, intention revealing names needs to be applied not just to the methods and classes we code, but also the tools we use. Then, fantasy names are just that, fantasy. In fact, I was planning a couple of sessions to get an idea of how can we do to have the system in a more clear way. Something like: - System Browser (Nautilus) then if we change it it can be - System Browser (GCoder) (Or whatever the name gtools guys are planning). - System Browser (AltBrowser) or whatever… same for other “mysterious” tools like monticello (who can know that monticello is a SCM, as a newbie?). A lot better: - SCM (Monticello) - SCM (Other) etc. So… I think is better to change “Nautilus” title to “System Browser”. Esteban > > cheers -ben > |
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On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 1:08 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi, > >> On 26 May 2015, at 18:16, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Ben Coman wrote >>>> We should at least change the Nautilus title bar to "Nautilus System >>>> Browser" (or just "System Browser" ?) >>> >>> Part of the problem is that we have overloaded system categories to package >>> code for SCM. System categories should be tags (preferably multiple allowed) >>> which offer a logical view of the system. Packages, the POV we show now, are >>> orthogonal and much less useful for users. >>> >>> The other complication is that we have jumped onto the fad now to have cool >>> names for all software projects which offer no guidance as to what the code >>> actually does - a la Ruby, Sinatra, Rails. While this mysteriousness may >>> generate excitement for the project, it seems far less useful once we >>> integrate things in the image. What does/could Nautilus mean to a new user? >>> Taking a cue from Mac - the core apps are called Mail, Contacts, Maps, >>> Notes; not Sandcastle, Cabana, SkippingStone, and Umbrella ;) At least Opal >>> has the word Compiler attached to it! >> >> Agreed. Also take a cue from Microsoft and their successful >> applications (I wonder what they could possibly be uesed for?): >> * Word >> * SQLServer >> * Internet Explorer >> * Publisher >> * Media Player >> >> Of course the incumbent players have the luxury of already having an >> audience to take the dominant position on the app names. But the >> situation is a bit the same for tools delivered by by default with the >> standard Image. > > I disagree with this way. > We are not building an OS (regardless the original intentions of smalltalk) and this profusion of names are generating more confusion than benefits, thinking on new users. > For me, intention revealing names needs to be applied not just to the methods and classes we code, but also the tools we use. Then, fantasy names are just that, fantasy. > In fact, I was planning a couple of sessions to get an idea of how can we do to have the system in a more clear way. Something like: > > - System Browser (Nautilus) > > then if we change it it can be > > - System Browser (GCoder) (Or whatever the name gtools guys are planning). > - System Browser (AltBrowser) > > or whatever… same for other “mysterious” tools like monticello (who can know that monticello is a SCM, as a newbie?). > A lot better: > > - SCM (Monticello) > - SCM (Other) > > etc. > So… I think is better to change “Nautilus” title to “System Browser”. The potential downside is a newcomer wanting to look look into the System Browser implementation, and not finding a class named "System Browser" to review. Maybe they would discover the ImplementationClass (e.g. Nautilus) anyway by digging into the tool using halos (?). > > Esteban > >> >> cheers -ben >> > > |
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I’m not sure I want a newcomer to look at nautilus code ;) Sarcasm aside, I get your concern but I remain thinking I have a strong point. Anyway that can be somewhere in the about… or we can rename it as "System Browser (Nautilus)” in the title, or something like that, we still need to work to have the best solution. Only thing is clear to me is current situation is not good at all :)
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Re: Some Pharo 4 Getting-Started tips
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In reply to this post by Sean P. DeNigris
2015-05-25 21:50 GMT-03:00 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>:
> Ben Coman wrote >> We should at least change the Nautilus title bar to "Nautilus System >> Browser" (or just "System Browser" ?) > The other complication is that we have jumped onto the fad now to have cool > names for all software projects which offer no guidance as to what the code > actually does - a la Ruby, Sinatra, Rails. While this mysteriousness may > generate excitement for the project, it seems far less useful once we > integrate things in the image. What does/could Nautilus mean to a new user? > Taking a cue from Mac - the core apps are called Mail, Contacts, Maps, > Notes; not Sandcastle, Cabana, SkippingStone, and Umbrella ;) At least Opal > has the word Compiler attached to it! +1 I think intention revealing names helps even the seasoned user. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo |
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
+ 1000 ! just do it ! > On May 26, 2015, at 14:08, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote: > > For me, intention revealing names needs to be applied not just to the methods and classes we code, but also the tools we use. Then, fantasy names are just that, fantasy. > In fact, I was planning a couple of sessions to get an idea of how can we do to have the system in a more clear way. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile |
Re: Some Pharo 4 Getting-Started tips
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 1:27 PM Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think this is ideal. I remember back when I used to use Perl, and it had CPAN, which was great. The only problem was that someone would say "use the XML library!" and you'd look in CPAN and there'd be xml and xmllib and libxml and fastxml or whatever, and you'd be like "uh... which one would that be?" Ruby went the other way entirely, with idiosyncratic names like "Nokogiri". The obvious down side is that if you see that in an app's dependencies and you're a newbie, you have no fricking clue what it is. The upside, though, is that if someone tells you "use Nokogiri!" there is zero ambiguity about what you're supposed to use. It gives the project a distinct, memorable personality. If you can keep distinctive project names, but also name menus and title bars such that they link the distinct project to the *role* that project plays, you've got the best of both worlds. |
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El 26/05/15 a las 17:59, Avdi Grimm escribió: > If you can keep distinctive project names, but also name menus and title bars > such that they link the distinct project to the *role* that project plays, > you've got the best of both worlds. > That is, for me the best approach also. Cheers, Offray |
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In reply to this post by Avdi Grimm
I like your point.
Please keep idiosyncratic names because we can build marketing with them. My computer is not just Computer your phone is not just Phone :) Even your shoes are not Shoes So brands are important Pharo is not Programming Language! Le 27/5/15 00:59, Avdi Grimm a écrit :
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Re: Some Pharo 4 Getting-Started tips
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Well the name iPhone is actually pretty much just Phone! Also, note that it's not called iConchShell ;) And, the apps it contains are called Messages, Mail, and Phone. Similarly, Pharo is our brand, and within the image we can make things simple for everyone. Float does not have to be branded as Irrational by Calvin Klein, with mathcing unintelligible commercial advertisements :-p
Cheers,
Sean |
Re: Some Pharo 4 Getting-Started tips
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2015-05-28 17:44 GMT-03:00 Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]>:
> stepharo wrote >> My computer is not just Computer your phone is not just Phone :) > > Well the name iPhone is actually pretty much just Phone! Also, note that > it's not called iConchShell ;) Android Phone, Windows Phone... > Similarly, Pharo is our brand, and within the > image we can make things simple for everyone. Plus, the menu already shows "System browser" as one of the options, you click it and it opens... Nautilus :P Esteban A. Maringolo |
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