Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

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Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

vaidasd
Hello,
Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to disk on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of popping up emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS process. See the docking bar, the second menu item is the Project menu. We need to add this to the known Issues session of the 5.1 release notes at least. This bug was pushed with Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments? Can they be removed? Why Environments is not  loadable package?
regards,
Vaidotas


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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Herbert König
Hi Vaidotas,

according to the end of
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.

From older discussions I remember that environments are too deeply
entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible to remove them
again.

And then some people may use them.

Cheers,

Herbert

 Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300
schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]>:

> Hello,
> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to disk
> on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of popping up
> emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS process. See the
> docking bar, the second menu item is the Project menu. We need to add
> this to the known Issues session of the 5.1 release notes at least.
> This bug was pushed with Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone
> uses Environments? Can they be removed? Why Environments is not
> loadable package? regards,
> Vaidotas


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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Hannes Hirzel
Hello Vaidotas

It can confirm that Project saving worked again in Squeak 4.6 in
December 2015 with the fixes applied done by Colin Putney[1]. I did
some tests then.

The  64bit image is experimental.

I just tested Project saving in Squeak 5.1 (32bit image) in MSWindows
and on Linux. It does not work either. So we need to wait for a VM
update.

Regards
Hannes

[1] http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
<citation>
With these four changes, it's possible to save and load projects in a
Squeak 4.6 image. It doesn't work in a trunk image, however. The Spur
VM crashes when saving a project. I've reported that on the VM list.
It also fails to load an image segment - looks like the primitive for
that isn't quite finished in Spur.
</citation>

On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Vaidotas,
>
> according to the end of
> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
> this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.
>
> From older discussions I remember that environments are too deeply
> entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible to remove them
> again.
>
> And then some people may use them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Herbert
>
>  Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300
> schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hello,
>> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to disk
>> on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of popping up
>> emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS process. See the
>> docking bar, the second menu item is the Project menu. We need to add
>> this to the known Issues session of the 5.1 release notes at least.
>> This bug was pushed with Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone
>> uses Environments? Can they be removed? Why Environments is not
>> loadable package? regards,
>> Vaidotas
>
>
>

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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Herbert König
Hi Hannes,

any tips how to get at that image and what VM to use? I still use 4.4
for development and later versions just for deployment.

Thanks,

Herbert

Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:16:03 +0100
schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:

> Hello Vaidotas
>
> It can confirm that Project saving worked again in Squeak 4.6 in
> December 2015 with the fixes applied done by Colin Putney[1]. I did
> some tests then.
>
> The  64bit image is experimental.
>
> I just tested Project saving in Squeak 5.1 (32bit image) in MSWindows
> and on Linux. It does not work either. So we need to wait for a VM
> update.
>
> Regards
> Hannes
>
> [1] http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
> <citation>
> With these four changes, it's possible to save and load projects in a
> Squeak 4.6 image. It doesn't work in a trunk image, however. The Spur
> VM crashes when saving a project. I've reported that on the VM list.
> It also fails to load an image segment - looks like the primitive for
> that isn't quite finished in Spur.
> </citation>
>
> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Vaidotas,
> >
> > according to the end of
> > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
> > this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.
> >
> > From older discussions I remember that environments are too deeply
> > entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible to remove
> > them again.
> >
> > And then some people may use them.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Herbert
> >
> >  Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300
> > schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]>:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to
> >> disk on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of
> >> popping up emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS
> >> process. See the docking bar, the second menu item is the Project
> >> menu. We need to add this to the known Issues session of the 5.1
> >> release notes at least. This bug was pushed with Environments
> >> package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments? Can they be
> >> removed? Why Environments is not loadable package? regards,
> >> Vaidotas
> >
> >
> >
>



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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Hannes Hirzel
Hallo Herbert

I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.

I think it was

4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image
(updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015

http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html
http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html
http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html
http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html

It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image
from the archive and try to recover what I did.

--Hannes


On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Hannes,
>
> any tips how to get at that image and what VM to use? I still use 4.4
> for development and later versions just for deployment.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Herbert
>
> Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:16:03 +0100
> schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hello Vaidotas
>>
>> It can confirm that Project saving worked again in Squeak 4.6 in
>> December 2015 with the fixes applied done by Colin Putney[1]. I did
>> some tests then.
>>
>> The  64bit image is experimental.
>>
>> I just tested Project saving in Squeak 5.1 (32bit image) in MSWindows
>> and on Linux. It does not work either. So we need to wait for a VM
>> update.
>>
>> Regards
>> Hannes
>>
>> [1] http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
>> <citation>
>> With these four changes, it's possible to save and load projects in a
>> Squeak 4.6 image. It doesn't work in a trunk image, however. The Spur
>> VM crashes when saving a project. I've reported that on the VM list.
>> It also fails to load an image segment - looks like the primitive for
>> that isn't quite finished in Spur.
>> </citation>
>>
>> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi Vaidotas,
>> >
>> > according to the end of
>> > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
>> > this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.
>> >
>> > From older discussions I remember that environments are too deeply
>> > entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible to remove
>> > them again.
>> >
>> > And then some people may use them.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Herbert
>> >
>> >  Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300
>> > schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]>:
>> >
>> >> Hello,
>> >> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to
>> >> disk on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of
>> >> popping up emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS
>> >> process. See the docking bar, the second menu item is the Project
>> >> menu. We need to add this to the known Issues session of the 5.1
>> >> release notes at least. This bug was pushed with Environments
>> >> package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments? Can they be
>> >> removed? Why Environments is not loadable package? regards,
>> >> Vaidotas
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

vaidasd


On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 3:43 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hallo Herbert

I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.

I think it was

4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image
(updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015

http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html
http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html
http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html
http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html

It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image
from the archive and try to recover what I did.

--Hannes

Thank you all for clarification. Last two links containt broken links to mcz files...



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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Hannes Hirzel
You may get the files  within Squeak directly from the Inbox (in a
Monticello Browser).

H.

On 8/26/16, Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 3:43 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hallo Herbert
>>
>> I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.
>>
>> I think it was
>>
>> 4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image
>> (updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015
>>
>> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html
>> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html
>> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html
>> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html
>>
>> It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image
>> from the archive and try to recover what I did.
>>
>> --Hannes
>>
>> Thank you all for clarification. Last two links containt broken links to
> mcz files...
>

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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Hannes Hirzel
Or redo the changes based on what you see in the mails ... :-)

On 8/26/16, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You may get the files  within Squeak directly from the Inbox (in a
> Monticello Browser).
>
> H.
>
> On 8/26/16, Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 3:43 PM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hallo Herbert
>>>
>>> I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.
>>>
>>> I think it was
>>>
>>> 4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image
>>> (updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015
>>>
>>> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html
>>> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html
>>> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html
>>> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html
>>>
>>> It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image
>>> from the archive and try to recover what I did.
>>>
>>> --Hannes
>>>
>>> Thank you all for clarification. Last two links containt broken links to
>> mcz files...
>>
>

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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Herbert König
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel
Thanks Hannes,

I'll let you know.

A typical image of mine contains lots of projects with documentation
and ideas I need to be able to save.

Cheers,

Herbert

Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:43:06 +0100
schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:

> Hallo Herbert
>
> I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.
>
> I think it was
>
> 4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image
> (updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015
>
> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html
> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html
> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html
> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html
>
> It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image
> from the archive and try to recover what I did.
>
> --Hannes
>
>
> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Hannes,
> >
> > any tips how to get at that image and what VM to use? I still use
> > 4.4 for development and later versions just for deployment.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Herbert
> >
> > Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:16:03 +0100
> > schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:
> >
> >> Hello Vaidotas
> >>
> >> It can confirm that Project saving worked again in Squeak 4.6 in
> >> December 2015 with the fixes applied done by Colin Putney[1]. I did
> >> some tests then.
> >>
> >> The  64bit image is experimental.
> >>
> >> I just tested Project saving in Squeak 5.1 (32bit image) in
> >> MSWindows and on Linux. It does not work either. So we need to
> >> wait for a VM update.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Hannes
> >>
> >> [1] http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
> >> <citation>
> >> With these four changes, it's possible to save and load projects
> >> in a Squeak 4.6 image. It doesn't work in a trunk image, however.
> >> The Spur VM crashes when saving a project. I've reported that on
> >> the VM list. It also fails to load an image segment - looks like
> >> the primitive for that isn't quite finished in Spur.
> >> </citation>
> >>
> >> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > Hi Vaidotas,
> >> >
> >> > according to the end of
> >> > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
> >> > this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.
> >> >
> >> > From older discussions I remember that environments are too
> >> > deeply entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible
> >> > to remove them again.
> >> >
> >> > And then some people may use them.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> >
> >> > Herbert
> >> >
> >> >  Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300
> >> > schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]>:
> >> >
> >> >> Hello,
> >> >> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to
> >> >> disk on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of
> >> >> popping up emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS
> >> >> process. See the docking bar, the second menu item is the
> >> >> Project menu. We need to add this to the known Issues session
> >> >> of the 5.1 release notes at least. This bug was pushed with
> >> >> Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments?
> >> >> Can they be removed? Why Environments is not loadable package?
> >> >> regards, Vaidotas
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

timfelgentreff

Hi,

in the process of updating Squeakland etoys to load in 5.1,we have also made the sexp format project saving and loading work again. This might be a VM independent way forward for storing projects.

Regarding loading old projects, Bert has an experimental OldSegmentLoader that can load pre-Spur segments into 5.1

best,
Tim


Herbert König <[hidden email]> schrieb am Fr., 26. Aug. 2016, 15:40:
Thanks Hannes,

I'll let you know.

A typical image of mine contains lots of projects with documentation
and ideas I need to be able to save.

Cheers,

Herbert

Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:43:06 +0100
schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:

> Hallo Herbert
>
> I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.
>
> I think it was
>
> 4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image
> (updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015
>
> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html
> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html
> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html
> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html
>
> It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image
> from the archive and try to recover what I did.
>
> --Hannes
>
>
> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Hannes,
> >
> > any tips how to get at that image and what VM to use? I still use
> > 4.4 for development and later versions just for deployment.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Herbert
> >
> > Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:16:03 +0100
> > schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:
> >
> >> Hello Vaidotas
> >>
> >> It can confirm that Project saving worked again in Squeak 4.6 in
> >> December 2015 with the fixes applied done by Colin Putney[1]. I did
> >> some tests then.
> >>
> >> The  64bit image is experimental.
> >>
> >> I just tested Project saving in Squeak 5.1 (32bit image) in
> >> MSWindows and on Linux. It does not work either. So we need to
> >> wait for a VM update.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Hannes
> >>
> >> [1] http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
> >> <citation>
> >> With these four changes, it's possible to save and load projects
> >> in a Squeak 4.6 image. It doesn't work in a trunk image, however.
> >> The Spur VM crashes when saving a project. I've reported that on
> >> the VM list. It also fails to load an image segment - looks like
> >> the primitive for that isn't quite finished in Spur.
> >> </citation>
> >>
> >> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > Hi Vaidotas,
> >> >
> >> > according to the end of
> >> > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
> >> > this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.
> >> >
> >> > From older discussions I remember that environments are too
> >> > deeply entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible
> >> > to remove them again.
> >> >
> >> > And then some people may use them.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> >
> >> > Herbert
> >> >
> >> >  Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300
> >> > schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]>:
> >> >
> >> >> Hello,
> >> >> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to
> >> >> disk on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of
> >> >> popping up emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS
> >> >> process. See the docking bar, the second menu item is the
> >> >> Project menu. We need to add this to the known Issues session
> >> >> of the 5.1 release notes at least. This bug was pushed with
> >> >> Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments?
> >> >> Can they be removed? Why Environments is not loadable package?
> >> >> regards, Vaidotas
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>




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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Hannes Hirzel
On 8/27/16, Tim Felgentreff <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> in the process of updating Squeakland etoys to load in 5.1,we have also
> made the sexp format project saving and loading work again. This might be a
> VM independent way forward for storing projects.

Yes, this storing a project as symbolic expressions is interesting.

Could you please give more details. Are the fixes includes in 5.1 or
in 6.0alpha-trunk?

--Hannes

>
> Regarding loading old projects, Bert has an experimental OldSegmentLoader
> that can load pre-Spur segments into 5.1
>
> best,
> Tim
>
> Herbert König <[hidden email]> schrieb am Fr., 26. Aug. 2016, 15:40:
>
>> Thanks Hannes,
>>
>> I'll let you know.
>>
>> A typical image of mine contains lots of projects with documentation
>> and ideas I need to be able to save.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Herbert
>>
>> Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:43:06 +0100
>> schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> > Hallo Herbert
>> >
>> > I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.
>> >
>> > I think it was
>> >
>> > 4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image
>> > (updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015
>> >
>> > http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html
>> > http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html
>> > http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html
>> > http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html
>> >
>> > It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image
>> > from the archive and try to recover what I did.
>> >
>> > --Hannes
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > > Hi Hannes,
>> > >
>> > > any tips how to get at that image and what VM to use? I still use
>> > > 4.4 for development and later versions just for deployment.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Herbert
>> > >
>> > > Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:16:03 +0100
>> > > schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:
>> > >
>> > >> Hello Vaidotas
>> > >>
>> > >> It can confirm that Project saving worked again in Squeak 4.6 in
>> > >> December 2015 with the fixes applied done by Colin Putney[1]. I did
>> > >> some tests then.
>> > >>
>> > >> The  64bit image is experimental.
>> > >>
>> > >> I just tested Project saving in Squeak 5.1 (32bit image) in
>> > >> MSWindows and on Linux. It does not work either. So we need to
>> > >> wait for a VM update.
>> > >>
>> > >> Regards
>> > >> Hannes
>> > >>
>> > >> [1] http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
>> > >> <citation>
>> > >> With these four changes, it's possible to save and load projects
>> > >> in a Squeak 4.6 image. It doesn't work in a trunk image, however.
>> > >> The Spur VM crashes when saving a project. I've reported that on
>> > >> the VM list. It also fails to load an image segment - looks like
>> > >> the primitive for that isn't quite finished in Spur.
>> > >> </citation>
>> > >>
>> > >> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > >> > Hi Vaidotas,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > according to the end of
>> > >> > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
>> > >> > this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > From older discussions I remember that environments are too
>> > >> > deeply entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible
>> > >> > to remove them again.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > And then some people may use them.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Cheers,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Herbert
>> > >> >
>> > >> >  Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300
>> > >> > schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]>:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> Hello,
>> > >> >> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to
>> > >> >> disk on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of
>> > >> >> popping up emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS
>> > >> >> process. See the docking bar, the second menu item is the
>> > >> >> Project menu. We need to add this to the known Issues session
>> > >> >> of the 5.1 release notes at least. This bug was pushed with
>> > >> >> Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments?
>> > >> >> Can they be removed? Why Environments is not loadable package?
>> > >> >> regards, Vaidotas
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Bert Freudenberg
In reply to this post by timfelgentreff
IMHO we should reconsider how project saving works. ImageSegments were a good technology back when machines and the interpreter VM was slow. Now we have faster machines and VMs so this very VM-dependent mechanism is no needed anymore.

Yoshiki's S-Expression format is one way to serialize, yes. We have used it for the QuickGuide projects in the Squeakland image. In the short term it's a good option. However, for more general project saving we may want to take a look at other serialization schemes.
 
I think we should deprecate ImageSegment. Is there any active use of them? I seem to remember SqueakMap used them but I'm not sure.

- Bert -

On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Tim Felgentreff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

in the process of updating Squeakland etoys to load in 5.1,we have also made the sexp format project saving and loading work again. This might be a VM independent way forward for storing projects.

Regarding loading old projects, Bert has an experimental OldSegmentLoader that can load pre-Spur segments into 5.1

best,
Tim


Herbert König <[hidden email]> schrieb am Fr., 26. Aug. 2016, 15:40:
Thanks Hannes,

I'll let you know.

A typical image of mine contains lots of projects with documentation
and ideas I need to be able to save.

Cheers,

Herbert

Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:43:06 +0100
schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:

> Hallo Herbert
>
> I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.
>
> I think it was
>
> 4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image
> (updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015
>
> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html
> http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html
> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html
> http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html
>
> It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image
> from the archive and try to recover what I did.
>
> --Hannes
>
>
> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Hannes,
> >
> > any tips how to get at that image and what VM to use? I still use
> > 4.4 for development and later versions just for deployment.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Herbert
> >
> > Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:16:03 +0100
> > schrieb "H. Hirzel" <[hidden email]>:
> >
> >> Hello Vaidotas
> >>
> >> It can confirm that Project saving worked again in Squeak 4.6 in
> >> December 2015 with the fixes applied done by Colin Putney[1]. I did
> >> some tests then.
> >>
> >> The  64bit image is experimental.
> >>
> >> I just tested Project saving in Squeak 5.1 (32bit image) in
> >> MSWindows and on Linux. It does not work either. So we need to
> >> wait for a VM update.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Hannes
> >>
> >> [1] http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
> >> <citation>
> >> With these four changes, it's possible to save and load projects
> >> in a Squeak 4.6 image. It doesn't work in a trunk image, however.
> >> The Spur VM crashes when saving a project. I've reported that on
> >> the VM list. It also fails to load an image segment - looks like
> >> the primitive for that isn't quite finished in Spur.
> >> </citation>
> >>
> >> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > Hi Vaidotas,
> >> >
> >> > according to the end of
> >> > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
> >> > this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.
> >> >
> >> > From older discussions I remember that environments are too
> >> > deeply entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible
> >> > to remove them again.
> >> >
> >> > And then some people may use them.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> >
> >> > Herbert
> >> >
> >> >  Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300
> >> > schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]>:
> >> >
> >> >> Hello,
> >> >> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to
> >> >> disk on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of
> >> >> popping up emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS
> >> >> process. See the docking bar, the second menu item is the
> >> >> Project menu. We need to add this to the known Issues session
> >> >> of the 5.1 release notes at least. This bug was pushed with
> >> >> Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments?
> >> >> Can they be removed? Why Environments is not loadable package?
> >> >> regards, Vaidotas
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>








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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

timrowledge

> On 29-08-2016, at 7:45 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> IMHO we should reconsider how project saving works. ImageSegments were a good technology back when machines and the interpreter VM was slow. Now we have faster machines and VMs so this very VM-dependent mechanism is no needed anymore.

Although I would have to comment that  there are still (relatively) slow machines still in major use, in general I agree that we could almost certainly do without ImageSegments.

>
> Yoshiki's S-Expression format is one way to serialize, yes. We have used it for the QuickGuide projects in the Squeakland image. In the short term it's a good option. However, for more general project saving we may want to take a look at other serialization schemes.
>  
> I think we should deprecate ImageSegment. Is there any active use of them? I seem to remember SqueakMap used them but I'm not sure.

The last use *I* had for them was for exobox (so…. 1999? Were we partying? Ah, no, my archives say 2000 so we had given up on raspberry berets and indeed were shortly to give up on exobox) to load fonts very fast. It was indeed *very* fast compared to reading them any other way. However, I also have an email from Andreas of 5sep02 where we were discussing ‘script squeak’ and he asserts that some measurements convinced him that what he described as a ‘bytecode loader’ was faster, in part because of no pre & post ImSeg messing around.

I have no idea if this is a profound thought or a trivia that everybody knows, but the deep-copy code seems awfully like (much of) a serialiser


tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Useful Latin Phrases:- Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo = Don't call me, I'll call you.



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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Hannes Hirzel
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel
On 8/29/16, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 8/27/16, Tim Felgentreff <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> in the process of updating Squeakland etoys to load in 5.1,we have also
>> made the sexp format project saving and loading work again. This might be
>> a
>> VM independent way forward for storing projects.
>
> Yes, this storing a project as symbolic expressions is interesting.
>
> Could you please give more details. Are the fixes includes in 5.1 or
> in 6.0alpha-trunk?

Tim,

I have seen that you are working on this

System-tfel.911.mcz, from yesterday, Aug 29, 2016

It  implements a hook for

   publishInSexp

>
> --Hannes
>
>>
>> Regarding loading old projects, Bert has an experimental OldSegmentLoader
>> that can load pre-Spur segments into 5.1

I think this is important as well. Is it possible to have access at
this code. Experimental version is fine. I would  to use it to import
objects from earlier versions into 5.1.

BTW how do I get access to the Smalltalk tools in the Squeakland image?
http://www.squeakland.org/content/installers/Etoys-To-Go-5.0.zip

--Hannes

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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Hannes Hirzel
In reply to this post by vaidasd
On 8/26/16, Vaidotas Didžbalis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello,
> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to disk on
> 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of popping up emergency
> evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS process. See the docking bar,
> the second menu item is the Project menu. We need to add this to the known
> Issues session of the 5.1 release notes at least.
+1

>This bug was pushed with
> Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments? Can they be
> removed? Why Environments is not  loadable package?
> regards,
> Vaidotas
>

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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Bert Freudenberg
In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel
On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 11:22 AM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]> wrote:
BTW how do I get access to the Smalltalk tools in the Squeakland image?
http://www.squeakland.org/content/installers/Etoys-To-Go-5.0.zip


* Cmd-comma: simplified code menu
* Cmd-Shift-W: full world menu
* Or disable eToyFriendly preference to get world menu on click as usual

- Bert -



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Re: Squeak 5.1, saving of Morphic projects is broken

Hannes Hirzel
On 8/30/16, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 11:22 AM, H. Hirzel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> BTW how do I get access to the Smalltalk tools in the Squeakland image?
>> http://www.squeakland.org/content/installers/Etoys-To-Go-5.0.zip
>>
>
>
> * Cmd-comma: simplified code menu
> * Cmd-Shift-W: full world menu
> * Or disable eToyFriendly preference to get world menu on click as usual
>
> - Bert -
>


Thank you. I found an example how the symbolic expressions work (see below).

The question is for which types of projects and object nets this works.

--Hannes



MSExpParser test1

        | str1 str2 str3 |
        str1 _ '(script :name "testscript1:" :type "Player" :player "12"
                (parameter :name "parameter" :type "Number" :position "1")
                (sequence
                        (loop :type "repeat"
                                (initial (literal :value "0"))
                                (increment (literal :value "1"))
                                (test (send :type "Number"
                (selector :selector "+")
                (send :type "Number"
                        (selector :getter "x")
                        (literal :type "Player" :value "self"))
                (literal :type "Number" :value "1")))
                                (sequence
                                        (assign :type "Number" :updating "Incr:" :property "x"
                                                (literal :type "Player" :value "4")
                                                (send :type "Number"
                                                        (selector :selector "+")
                                                        (literal :type "Number" :value "244.0")
                                                        (literal :type "Number" :value "1")))))))'.

        str2 _ (MSExpParser parse: str1 with: #ksexp) prettyString.
        str3 _ (MSExpParser parse: str2 with: #ksexp) prettyString.

        (StringHolder new textContents:
                        (TextDiffBuilder buildDisplayPatchFrom: str2 to: str3))
                        openLabel: 'original sexp and new sexp'.




Object subclass: #SExpElement
        instanceVariableNames: 'keyword attributes elements'
        classVariableNames: ''
        poolDictionaries: ''
        category: 'Meta-Examples'

Array variableSubclass: #SExpAttributes
        instanceVariableNames: ''
        classVariableNames: ''
        poolDictionaries: ''
        category: 'Meta-Examples'