Squeak All-in-One

(resending with proper subject)

29.04.2010, at 01:07, Andreas Raab wrote:
Agreed. Let's build it. But Amazon marketing be damned, please don't call it "1-click". Makes me cringe every time.

Actually ... I just made one. Only tested on Mac and Linux-i686, but chances are it works on Windows, too:

http://ftp.squeak.org/Experiments/Squeak-4.1-All-in-One.zip

- Bert -

On 29 April 2010 12:51, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: Works on my windoze XP!

> - Bert -
>
>
>
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

On 04/29/2010 12:27 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> On 29 April 2010 12:51, Bert Freudenberg<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Agreed. Let's build it. But Amazon marketing be damned, please don't call it "1-click". Makes me cringe every time.
>>
>> Actually ... I just made one. Only tested on Mac and Linux-i686, but chances are it works on Windows, too:
>>
>> http://ftp.squeak.org/Experiments/Squeak-4.1-All-in-One.zip
>>
> Works on my windoze XP!

Worked fine as in sure-double-click-fired-it-up-indeed on my Xubuntu
9.10 (Karmic Koala).

regards, Göran

On 29.04.2010, at 14:03, Göran Krampe wrote:
Neat, thanks for testing. Now we just need independent confirmation it works on Mac, too.  If so, should I move it to the official 4.1 download directory?

Might be good to put a little README.txt inside, just to spell out which file to double-click. If someone writes a little blurb I'll update the zip.

Also, we could add more VMs if people provide them, though these three should go a long way. Not sure what to do about 64 bit Linux, maybe just tweak the script to run the 32 bit version anyway?

- Bert -

works fine on a Mac with Leopard at least

Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> Sent by: [hidden email] 04/29/10 08:13 AM Please respond to The general-purpose Squeak developers list        <[hidden email]>

To The general-purpose Squeak developers list <[hidden email]> cc Subject Re: [squeak-dev] Squeak All-in-One

On 29.04.2010, at 14:03, Göran Krampe wrote:
>
> On 04/29/2010 12:27 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>> On 29 April 2010 12:51, Bert Freudenberg<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Agreed. Let's build it. But Amazon marketing be damned, please don't call it "1-click". Makes me cringe every time.
>>>
>>> Actually ... I just made one. Only tested on Mac and Linux-i686, but chances are it works on Windows, too:
>>>
>>> http://ftp.squeak.org/Experiments/Squeak-4.1-All-in-One.zip
>>>
>> Works on my windoze XP!
>
> Worked fine as in sure-double-click-fired-it-up-indeed on my Xubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala).
>
> regards, Göran

Neat, thanks for testing. Now we just need independent confirmation it works on Mac, too.  If so, should I move it to the official 4.1 download directory?

Might be good to put a little README.txt inside, just to spell out which file to double-click. If someone writes a little blurb I'll update the zip.

Also, we could add more VMs if people provide them, though these three should go a long way. Not sure what to do about 64 bit Linux, maybe just tweak the script to run the 32 bit version anyway?

- Bert -

Am 29.04.2010 um 14:13 schrieb Bert Freudenberg:

It does on SnowLeopard 10.6.2

Markus

>  If so, should I move it to the official 4.1 download directory?
>
> Might be good to put a little README.txt inside, just to spell out which file to double-click. If someone writes a little blurb I'll update the zip.
>
> Also, we could add more VMs if people provide them, though these three should go a long way. Not sure what to do about 64 bit Linux, maybe just tweak the script to run the 32 bit version anyway?
>
> - Bert -
>
>

On 29 April 2010 11:51, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What I've done is use that All-in-One file, and incorporated a version
> of Stephane's muO work, so there's now a prototype muO All-in-One file
> available at http://www.filebanker.com/muo-all-in-one (random hosting
> service). This took half an hour for me to do, so we've now got a nice
> basis for any developer to quickly package up their work for wide
> distribution.

That's a nice try, but it is not finished: muO needs auxilliary files
(that's mostly documentation).

My own "ready-to-use" distribution for Windows (at
http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/muo/muO%20235%20image.zip, which I
guess you worked upon) includes two folders ("muO books" and "rawwaves")
that should be located in the same directory as the image; that would be
in the Resources directory of your archive.

Then there is the problem that a saved image is not easily available:
the All-in-one executable always launches the initial image. In the case
of muO, this is a show stopper, since it is a development environment,
not an application supposed to always start from scratch.

Stef

One more point:

muO being based on 3.8, and the All-in-One VM being the latest one, it
is impossible to close the application by closing its window. One has to
go through the "quit" item in the World menu.

Stef

On 29.04.2010, at 15:38, Stéphane Rollandin wrote:
>
> One more point:
>
> muO being based on 3.8, and the All-in-One VM being the latest one, it is impossible to close the application by closing its window. One has to go through the "quit" item in the World menu.
>
> Stef

For Mac and Windows you could tweak the VM options.

Or, add the handful of methods to handle the close window event.

- Bert -

> If you "save and quit" your updated image gets loaded okay on Windows -
> are you on a different platform?

Ah, sorry for the confusion: I meant an updated image with a new name
(using "save as new version")

> As I say, this was just a demo of what is possible. If you have a 4.1
> image on hand I'd be happy to build a demo based on that.

Not yet :)

Stef

On 4/29/10, Michael Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
Excellent - this is just what I need. A platform independent zip
package to distribute my image file.

--Hannes

> Okay that seems to be fixed in
> http://www.filebanker.com/muo-all-in-onev2

yes, very nice: all tests are green.

thanks for your work, this definitely is inspiring.

I tried the All-in-One in linux:
       
  - the squeak.sh script must be updated to the new image name (BTW
where is the similar setting for MacOS, if any ?)
  - I had to set permissions for squeak.sh and bin/squeak since they
were not executable by default.
  - the mouse buttons for halo and context menus were inversed, so the
behavior is not the same on Linux and Windows

I have no Mac so could not test the third platform.

thanks again,

Stef

Given that it seems developers will not use an all-in-one image, I thought Michael's "Taste of Squeak" idea was awesome - bundle some of the coolest apps together to get a new user hooked on Squeak's power, and they will be willing to put in the extra effort to get a standard download.

The exchange between Michael and Ian in the former thread (A little 4.1 press coverage):

Michael Davies-2 wrote

The great thing about the one-click image is that it's such a powerful way
to get people hooked. If you've got, say, a Mandelbrot generator that you
want to show to people, it's great to be able to drop it into a one-click
image, put it and an appealing image on your blog and say to the world "just
download it and run it, it works identically on Windows, OS X and Linux, oh
and if you want to understand how it works, the source code's included, oh
and it's got a powerful development environment in there as well". People
can then get a taste for the Squeak environment and perhaps explore the
development tools without even caring that there's an "image" there. Once
you've captured their interest and they start thinking about using Squeak
themselves, they'll be more willing to put in that little bit of effort to
understand what images and sources and changes and FFI and DLLs and VMs and
changesets and mczs and packages all mean.

<snip>

perhaps there should
be a "Taste of Squeak" one-click image based on the 4.1 release, with a few
of the more appealing packages pre-installed - a combination of 4.1's
un-threatening UI and in-image help, with some of Edgar's FunSqueak ideas
could be really attractive.

Ian Trudel-2 wrote

One may argue the benefit from having a Mandelbrot generator is that
people can then look into the code. They may or may not. Your guess is
as good as mine. Or, for example, we could instead include some games
(SameGame, Tetris, etc) along with the famous Laser Game tutorial (at
least a link but preferably in HelpSystem).

        “Play games, make games!”

On 4/29/10, Sean P. DeNigris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Given that it seems developers will not use an all-in-one image,

This morning I have downloaded the all-in-one image and use it right
now to develop code.
It is handy that I can do either under MSWindows and Ubuntu (I have a
dual boot installation). It is helpful for testing purposes in
addition.

I thought
> Michael's "Taste of Squeak" idea was awesome - bundle some of the coolest
> apps together to get a new user hooked on Squeak's power, and they will be
> willing to put in the extra effort to get a standard download.

I like this idea. An extended image prepackaged with interesting things.
I think this is just what we should encourage.

--Hannes

Hannes Hirzel wrote: Again, that simple applescript provides a shell to launch the squeak VM
using a selection of image versions. I'm sure that Linux and Windows
shell scripting can provide a similar capability:

Its not as professional looking as it might be (what I whipped up) but
it lets you choose which version of hte image to launch


Lawson

> Again, that simple applescript provides a shell to launch the squeak VM
> using a selection of image versions. I'm sure that Linux and Windows
> shell scripting can provide a similar capability:

I made such a script in Emacs Lisp, for Surmulot
(http://www.zogotounga.net/surmulot/surmulot.html) which combines Emacs
and muO. What I found useful in that context was to give a root name,
and analyse all images based on that name, then propose to the user to
choose which image to launch among the initial image (the one with the
root name) plus the latests of its derivative (the number of which we
can customize).

so, if the images folder contains
muO.image
muO.1.image
muO.2.image
muO.3.image
muO.4.image
muO.5.image

the script could propose only muO.image and muO.5.image, and possibly
add muO.4.image also, or muO.4.image and muO.3.image, etc.

here are some docstrings:

---
function (squeak-tcpip-default-image)

Return the default image to be opened when starting Squeak from Emacs.
Valid image file names are built by replacing ".image" with ".N.image"
in variable `squeak-tcpip-default-image', where N stands for any integer.
Variable `squeak-tcpip-proposed-images' controls which images are
considered candidates.
If none is found, return "" which make the Squeak VM interactively query
the user.


variable squeak-tcpip-proposed-images

The number of latest images to be interactively proposed when starting
Squeak from Emacs.
If 0, the latest image is automatically selected.
If negative, the root image (from variable `squeak-tcpip-default-image')
is automatically selected.

---

yet another approach would be to sort the image files by modification dates.

my 2 cents,

Stef

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 02:13:30PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>
> Also, we could add more VMs if people provide them, though these three
> should go a long way.
> Not sure what to do about 64 bit Linux, maybe just tweak the script to
> run the 32 bit version anyway?

IMO tweaking the script to run the 32-bit VM is the best thing to do
right now. It gives more consistency in the plugins (some are still
not available in 64-bit form), and the only real downside is the need
to install 32-bit runtime libraries. I expect that it is easier to
explain to new users that they need to install 32-bit libraries from
their Linux distro than it is to explain way some Squeak capabilities
do not work if they happen to be using a 64-bit OS.

Dave

On 4/29/2010 2:51 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> Agreed. Let's build it. But Amazon marketing be damned, please don't call it "1-click". Makes me cringe every time.
>
> Actually ... I just made one. Only tested on Mac and Linux-i686, but chances are it works on Windows, too:
>
> http://ftp.squeak.org/Experiments/Squeak-4.1-All-in-One.zip

This is great! I see someone has already put a copy into the 4.1
directory - should we put this up as a download option on
www.squeak.org, perhaps labeled "Universal Install"? (to make clear that
it applies to all platforms)

Cheers,
   - Andreas