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SqueakSource down... again

hernanmd
SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
alternative "free" repository?
Cheers,

--
Hernán Morales
Information Technology Manager,
Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
Internal: 422
Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.

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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Henrik Sperre Johansen
+ Repository
directory

Cheers,
Henry

On Feb 21, 2011, at 4:02 46PM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
> alternative "free" repository?
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Hernán Morales
> Information Technology Manager,
> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
> Internal: 422
> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>


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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Guillermo Polito
An FTP repo is a good alternative for private projects.  Esteban uses that I think.

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Henrik Johansen <[hidden email]> wrote:
+ Repository
directory

Cheers,
Henry

On Feb 21, 2011, at 4:02 46PM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:

> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
> alternative "free" repository?
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Hernán Morales
> Information Technology Manager,
> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
> Internal: 422
> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>



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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Fabrizio Perin-3
In reply to this post by hernanmd
SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i don't know how i can help you.

2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
alternative "free" repository?
Cheers,

--
Hernán Morales
Information Technology Manager,
Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
Internal: 422
Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.


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Re: SqueakSource down... again

hernanmd
In reply to this post by Henrik Sperre Johansen
I mean repository *server*,
Thanks

2011/2/21 Henrik Johansen <[hidden email]>:

> + Repository
> directory
>
> Cheers,
> Henry
>
> On Feb 21, 2011, at 4:02 46PM, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
>
>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>> alternative "free" repository?
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> Hernán Morales
>> Information Technology Manager,
>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>> Internal: 422
>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>
>
>
>

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Re: SqueakSource down... again

hernanmd
In reply to this post by Fabrizio Perin-3
Thanks,
do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.

I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
SqueakSource is down very often lately..

2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:

> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i don't
> know how i can help you.
>
> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>
>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>> alternative "free" repository?
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> Hernán Morales
>> Information Technology Manager,
>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>> Internal: 422
>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>

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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: SqueakSource down... again

Igor Stasenko
On 21 February 2011 16:31, Hernán Morales Durand
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks,
> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.
>
> I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
> SqueakSource is down very often lately..
>

Which is a good sign, because it indicating that there are a lot of
activity comparing to couple years before :)

I don't know, maybe we should test-drive the different (newer)
VM+image combinations for it? Is it possible?

> 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:
>> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i don't
>> know how i can help you.
>>
>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>>> alternative "free" repository?
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hernán Morales
>>> Information Technology Manager,
>>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>>> Internal: 422
>>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>>
>
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Fabrizio Perin-3
In reply to this post by hernanmd
Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen already in different threads but again the problems are:
1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine running linux it could be better.
2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite entirely squaeksource.

Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about this). I'm trying to keep the system alive.

Cheers,

Fabrizio

2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
Thanks,
do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.

I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
SqueakSource is down very often lately..

2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:
> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i don't
> know how i can help you.
>
> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>
>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>> alternative "free" repository?
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> Hernán Morales
>> Information Technology Manager,
>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>> Internal: 422
>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>


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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Camillo Bruni
how about a file based system and git?

On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote:

> Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen
> already in different threads but again the problems are:
> 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine
> running linux it could be better.
> 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not
> wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more
> recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite
> entirely squaeksource.
>
> Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to
> solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about
> this). I'm trying to keep the system alive.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fabrizio
>
> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>
>> Thanks,
>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.
>>
>> I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
>> SqueakSource is down very often lately..
>>
>> 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:
>>> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i
>> don't
>>> know how i can help you.
>>>
>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>>>> alternative "free" repository?
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Hernán Morales
>>>> Information Technology Manager,
>>>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>>>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>>>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>>>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>>>> Internal: 422
>>>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>>>
>>
>>


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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Adrian Lienhard

On Feb 21, 2011, at 17:22 , Camillo Bruni wrote:

> how about a file based system and git?

yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago...

The simplest thing that could work:
- Write out changes to files (for each method and class)
- Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc.
- After git actions, load changed files and compile

Advantage:
- can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc.
- probably faster than MC + SqueakSource
- lower entry barrier for new people

Disadvantage:
- source control tools not integrated anymore
- resolving merge conflicts may be tedious
- we don't have our own solution for everything anymore ;)

Adrian

>
> On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote:
>
>> Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen
>> already in different threads but again the problems are:
>> 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine
>> running linux it could be better.
>> 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not
>> wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more
>> recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite
>> entirely squaeksource.
>>
>> Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to
>> solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about
>> this). I'm trying to keep the system alive.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Fabrizio
>>
>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.
>>>
>>> I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
>>> SqueakSource is down very often lately..
>>>
>>> 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:
>>>> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i
>>> don't
>>>> know how i can help you.
>>>>
>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>>>>> alternative "free" repository?
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Hernán Morales
>>>>> Information Technology Manager,
>>>>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>>>>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>>>>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>>>>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>>>>> Internal: 422
>>>>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>


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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Chris Muller-3
>> how about a file based system and git?

-1.

> yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago...
>
> The simplest thing that could work:
> - Write out changes to files (for each method and class)
> - Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc.
> - After git actions, load changed files and compile

Doesn't seem simpler than what is already written and working...  Did
someone say it is a hardware issue (old Mac)?  Perhaps we should ask,
_why_ is Squeaksource going down before addressing solutions.

> Advantage:
> - can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc.

SqueakSource is an existing tool.

> - probably faster than MC + SqueakSource

"Faster" for the computer to copy files, but slow and tedious for me to merge?

> - lower entry barrier for new people

SqueakSource is not the "barrier" keeping droves of people from Pharo is it?

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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Igor Stasenko
In reply to this post by Adrian Lienhard
Come on. We are talking about quality of service here, or about
changing the service?
I don't think that after migrating to (put your favorite here), we
won't have any new problems. And then same, lack of people who can
address them.

On 21 February 2011 17:39, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Feb 21, 2011, at 17:22 , Camillo Bruni wrote:
>
>> how about a file based system and git?
>
> yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago...
>
> The simplest thing that could work:
> - Write out changes to files (for each method and class)
> - Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc.
> - After git actions, load changed files and compile
>
> Advantage:
> - can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc.
> - probably faster than MC + SqueakSource
> - lower entry barrier for new people
>
> Disadvantage:
> - source control tools not integrated anymore
> - resolving merge conflicts may be tedious
> - we don't have our own solution for everything anymore ;)
>
> Adrian
>
>>
>> On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote:
>>
>>> Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen
>>> already in different threads but again the problems are:
>>> 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine
>>> running linux it could be better.
>>> 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not
>>> wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more
>>> recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite
>>> entirely squaeksource.
>>>
>>> Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to
>>> solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about
>>> this). I'm trying to keep the system alive.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Fabrizio
>>>
>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
>>>> SqueakSource is down very often lately..
>>>>
>>>> 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i
>>>> don't
>>>>> know how i can help you.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>>>>>> alternative "free" repository?
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Hernán Morales
>>>>>> Information Technology Manager,
>>>>>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>>>>>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>>>>>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>>>>>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>>>>>> Internal: 422
>>>>>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Guillermo Polito
I don't know if we have to change to another kind of service.  But we MUST have alternatives.

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
Come on. We are talking about quality of service here, or about
changing the service?
I don't think that after migrating to (put your favorite here), we
won't have any new problems. And then same, lack of people who can
address them.

On 21 February 2011 17:39, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Feb 21, 2011, at 17:22 , Camillo Bruni wrote:
>
>> how about a file based system and git?
>
> yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago...
>
> The simplest thing that could work:
> - Write out changes to files (for each method and class)
> - Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc.
> - After git actions, load changed files and compile
>
> Advantage:
> - can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc.
> - probably faster than MC + SqueakSource
> - lower entry barrier for new people
>
> Disadvantage:
> - source control tools not integrated anymore
> - resolving merge conflicts may be tedious
> - we don't have our own solution for everything anymore ;)
>
> Adrian
>
>>
>> On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote:
>>
>>> Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen
>>> already in different threads but again the problems are:
>>> 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine
>>> running linux it could be better.
>>> 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not
>>> wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more
>>> recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite
>>> entirely squaeksource.
>>>
>>> Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to
>>> solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about
>>> this). I'm trying to keep the system alive.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Fabrizio
>>>
>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
>>>> SqueakSource is down very often lately..
>>>>
>>>> 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i
>>>> don't
>>>>> know how i can help you.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>>>>>> alternative "free" repository?
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Hernán Morales
>>>>>> Information Technology Manager,
>>>>>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>>>>>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>>>>>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>>>>>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>>>>>> Internal: 422
>>>>>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.


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Re: SqueakSource down... again

EstebanLM
Hi,
I'm already working in a file based solution... it will be ready for test next one or two months :)

There are some advantages I want to point: 
- Better for newcomers 
- Better for customers who "want to see the sources" (yes, I have some of them, time to time)
- We don't need to take care about infrastructure anymore, just use one already existing (like Github)
- Increases Pharo visibility in the web (this is really important, IMHO)
- "Hybrid" projects (with external files) like VM, for instance, and many Seaside projects, can have just one source point (so tags, etc. has no need to be manually matched with monticello repository). 
- the solution I'm building (not just me, this is with a friend of mine who does not participate in the list) can work together with monticello, so you can have your sources "frozen" in the disk (and commit to git), and create a monticello version if you need it :)
- We will use coral source format to keep files in disk, so they will be more readable than current file-out format (well, this can take a little more than two months, because I'm still understanding it)

On the disadvantages... 
- Most important (because of the "smalltalk culture", mostly) is the fact we loose the "all in smalltalk" thing...but that's  not an issue IMHO. Pharo community is a lot more open than others, and we already are using some non-smalltalk tools (like hudson for building and google for tracking)
- Yes, merging, etc. can be harder, but I think using a nice file format can lower this impact (and we are still supporting image-to/from-file merging). 

A couple of years ago some guys released SqueakSVN, as an alternative, but it failed to become an option... I think because SVN was already old at that time, and also because installation, etc. was hard, and also because it was an "incomplete" work, I think. Anyway... I'm doing this stuff because I need it, and I hope some others will consider it useful :) 
So... well... stay in touch ;)

cheers,
Esteban

pd: yes... I know... I'm currently handling more projects than I can do... and that delays all my projects... but I'm doing my best, and any help is welcome :)

El 21/02/2011, a las 1:55p.m., Guillermo Polito escribió:

I don't know if we have to change to another kind of service.  But we MUST have alternatives.

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
Come on. We are talking about quality of service here, or about
changing the service?
I don't think that after migrating to (put your favorite here), we
won't have any new problems. And then same, lack of people who can
address them.

On 21 February 2011 17:39, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Feb 21, 2011, at 17:22 , Camillo Bruni wrote:
>
>> how about a file based system and git?
>
> yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago...
>
> The simplest thing that could work:
> - Write out changes to files (for each method and class)
> - Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc.
> - After git actions, load changed files and compile
>
> Advantage:
> - can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc.
> - probably faster than MC + SqueakSource
> - lower entry barrier for new people
>
> Disadvantage:
> - source control tools not integrated anymore
> - resolving merge conflicts may be tedious
> - we don't have our own solution for everything anymore ;)
>
> Adrian
>
>>
>> On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote:
>>
>>> Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen
>>> already in different threads but again the problems are:
>>> 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine
>>> running linux it could be better.
>>> 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not
>>> wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more
>>> recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite
>>> entirely squaeksource.
>>>
>>> Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to
>>> solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about
>>> this). I'm trying to keep the system alive.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Fabrizio
>>>
>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
>>>> SqueakSource is down very often lately..
>>>>
>>>> 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i
>>>> don't
>>>>> know how i can help you.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>>>>>> alternative "free" repository?
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Hernán Morales
>>>>>> Information Technology Manager,
>>>>>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>>>>>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>>>>>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>>>>>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>>>>>> Internal: 422
>>>>>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.



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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: SqueakSource down... again

hernanmd
In reply to this post by hernanmd
You're right, we should continue expecting a human-robot volunteer to
press the button every time the machine is broken, and that's very
kind attitude.

Hernán

2011/2/21 Frank Shearar <[hidden email]>:

> On 2011/02/21 15:31, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
>>
>> Thanks,
>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely
>> unusable.
>
> Maybe cut out the sarcasm. You waited an entire 29 minutes to complain that
> volunteers who might not be in your timezone aren't responding quickly
> enough for your tastes.
>
> By the way, it looks rather unbroken from here.
>
> frank
>
>

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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: SqueakSource down... again

Guillermo Polito
But the problem is that we have no alternatives, and if we want some, we have to build them :).  It's not just about complaining and waiting for the others to solve our problems.

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:
You're right, we should continue expecting a human-robot volunteer to
press the button every time the machine is broken, and that's very
kind attitude.

Hernán

2011/2/21 Frank Shearar <[hidden email]>:
> On 2011/02/21 15:31, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
>>
>> Thanks,
>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely
>> unusable.
>
> Maybe cut out the sarcasm. You waited an entire 29 minutes to complain that
> volunteers who might not be in your timezone aren't responding quickly
> enough for your tastes.
>
> By the way, it looks rather unbroken from here.
>
> frank
>
>


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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: SqueakSource down... again

hernanmd
Discussing alternatives is a start for a solution, and as I've seen
from the posts above we have alternatives, we do not have consensus.

2011/2/21 Guillermo Polito <[hidden email]>:

> But the problem is that we have no alternatives, and if we want some, we
> have to build them :).  It's not just about complaining and waiting for the
> others to solve our problems.
>
> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Hernán Morales Durand
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> You're right, we should continue expecting a human-robot volunteer to
>> press the button every time the machine is broken, and that's very
>> kind attitude.
>>
>> Hernán
>>
>> 2011/2/21 Frank Shearar <[hidden email]>:
>> > On 2011/02/21 15:31, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely
>> >> unusable.
>> >
>> > Maybe cut out the sarcasm. You waited an entire 29 minutes to complain
>> > that
>> > volunteers who might not be in your timezone aren't responding quickly
>> > enough for your tastes.
>> >
>> > By the way, it looks rather unbroken from here.
>> >
>> > frank
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>



--
Hernán Morales
Information Technology Manager,
Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
Internal: 422
Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.

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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Adrian Lienhard
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Hi Esteban,

I look forward to testing it :)

BTW, SqueakSource is not the problem for me (we have a HTTP repository). The MC speed is what bothers us most... I just responded in this thread since the idea was mentioned by Camillo. I know that other people are more attached to the "Smalltalk way" of doing things and prefer staying with MC, but I think we should seriously consider alternatives (as you apparently already do). I believe that closing the gap between the file-based languages and Smalltalk is possible without giving up too much...

Cheers,
Adrian

On Feb 21, 2011, at 18:52 , Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm already working in a file based solution... it will be ready for test next one or two months :)
>
> There are some advantages I want to point:
> - Better for newcomers
> - Better for customers who "want to see the sources" (yes, I have some of them, time to time)
> - We don't need to take care about infrastructure anymore, just use one already existing (like Github)
> - Increases Pharo visibility in the web (this is really important, IMHO)
> - "Hybrid" projects (with external files) like VM, for instance, and many Seaside projects, can have just one source point (so tags, etc. has no need to be manually matched with monticello repository).
> - the solution I'm building (not just me, this is with a friend of mine who does not participate in the list) can work together with monticello, so you can have your sources "frozen" in the disk (and commit to git), and create a monticello version if you need it :)
> - We will use coral source format to keep files in disk, so they will be more readable than current file-out format (well, this can take a little more than two months, because I'm still understanding it)
>
> On the disadvantages...
> - Most important (because of the "smalltalk culture", mostly) is the fact we loose the "all in smalltalk" thing...but that's  not an issue IMHO. Pharo community is a lot more open than others, and we already are using some non-smalltalk tools (like hudson for building and google for tracking)
> - Yes, merging, etc. can be harder, but I think using a nice file format can lower this impact (and we are still supporting image-to/from-file merging).
>
> A couple of years ago some guys released SqueakSVN, as an alternative, but it failed to become an option... I think because SVN was already old at that time, and also because installation, etc. was hard, and also because it was an "incomplete" work, I think. Anyway... I'm doing this stuff because I need it, and I hope some others will consider it useful :)
> So... well... stay in touch ;)
>
> cheers,
> Esteban
>
> pd: yes... I know... I'm currently handling more projects than I can do... and that delays all my projects... but I'm doing my best, and any help is welcome :)
>
> El 21/02/2011, a las 1:55p.m., Guillermo Polito escribió:
>
>> I don't know if we have to change to another kind of service.  But we MUST have alternatives.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Come on. We are talking about quality of service here, or about
>> changing the service?
>> I don't think that after migrating to (put your favorite here), we
>> won't have any new problems. And then same, lack of people who can
>> address them.
>>
>> On 21 February 2011 17:39, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Feb 21, 2011, at 17:22 , Camillo Bruni wrote:
>>>
>>>> how about a file based system and git?
>>>
>>> yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago...
>>>
>>> The simplest thing that could work:
>>> - Write out changes to files (for each method and class)
>>> - Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc.
>>> - After git actions, load changed files and compile
>>>
>>> Advantage:
>>> - can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc.
>>> - probably faster than MC + SqueakSource
>>> - lower entry barrier for new people
>>>
>>> Disadvantage:
>>> - source control tools not integrated anymore
>>> - resolving merge conflicts may be tedious
>>> - we don't have our own solution for everything anymore ;)
>>>
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen
>>>>> already in different threads but again the problems are:
>>>>> 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine
>>>>> running linux it could be better.
>>>>> 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not
>>>>> wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more
>>>>> recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite
>>>>> entirely squaeksource.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to
>>>>> solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about
>>>>> this). I'm trying to keep the system alive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fabrizio
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
>>>>>> SqueakSource is down very often lately..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> know how i can help you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>>>>>>>> alternative "free" repository?
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Hernán Morales
>>>>>>>> Information Technology Manager,
>>>>>>>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>>>>>>>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>>>>>>>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>>>>>>>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>>>>>>>> Internal: 422
>>>>>>>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>
>>
>


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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: SqueakSource down... again

Michael Haupt-3
In reply to this post by hernanmd
Hi,

at HPI, we have a SqueakSource with a GemStone backend. The only downtimes we experienced were due to necessary maintenance.

Best,

Michael

Am 21.02.2011 um 19:21 schrieb Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>:

> Discussing alternatives is a start for a solution, and as I've seen
> from the posts above we have alternatives, we do not have consensus.
>
> 2011/2/21 Guillermo Polito <[hidden email]>:
>> But the problem is that we have no alternatives, and if we want some, we
>> have to build them :).  It's not just about complaining and waiting for the
>> others to solve our problems.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Hernán Morales Durand
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> You're right, we should continue expecting a human-robot volunteer to
>>> press the button every time the machine is broken, and that's very
>>> kind attitude.
>>>
>>> Hernán
>>>
>>> 2011/2/21 Frank Shearar <[hidden email]>:
>>>> On 2011/02/21 15:31, Hernán Morales Durand wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely
>>>>> unusable.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe cut out the sarcasm. You waited an entire 29 minutes to complain
>>>> that
>>>> volunteers who might not be in your timezone aren't responding quickly
>>>> enough for your tastes.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, it looks rather unbroken from here.
>>>>
>>>> frank
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Hernán Morales
> Information Technology Manager,
> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
> Internal: 422
> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>

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Re: SqueakSource down... again

Steven Baker
In reply to this post by Adrian Lienhard
FWIW, Git is a very generic system. There's no reason we couldn't
write a storage adapter for MC that puts the repo in Git. Git only
knows about objects, and the versions thereof. We could easily have
Monticello on top of git.

I'm not sure I think it's a good solution, but it sounds like
something fun to hack on, if someone wants to join me. (I'm not doing
a project I only peripherally care about all by my lonesome.)

-Steven

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Esteban,
>
> I look forward to testing it :)
>
> BTW, SqueakSource is not the problem for me (we have a HTTP repository). The MC speed is what bothers us most... I just responded in this thread since the idea was mentioned by Camillo. I know that other people are more attached to the "Smalltalk way" of doing things and prefer staying with MC, but I think we should seriously consider alternatives (as you apparently already do). I believe that closing the gap between the file-based languages and Smalltalk is possible without giving up too much...
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
> On Feb 21, 2011, at 18:52 , Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I'm already working in a file based solution... it will be ready for test next one or two months :)
>>
>> There are some advantages I want to point:
>> - Better for newcomers
>> - Better for customers who "want to see the sources" (yes, I have some of them, time to time)
>> - We don't need to take care about infrastructure anymore, just use one already existing (like Github)
>> - Increases Pharo visibility in the web (this is really important, IMHO)
>> - "Hybrid" projects (with external files) like VM, for instance, and many Seaside projects, can have just one source point (so tags, etc. has no need to be manually matched with monticello repository).
>> - the solution I'm building (not just me, this is with a friend of mine who does not participate in the list) can work together with monticello, so you can have your sources "frozen" in the disk (and commit to git), and create a monticello version if you need it :)
>> - We will use coral source format to keep files in disk, so they will be more readable than current file-out format (well, this can take a little more than two months, because I'm still understanding it)
>>
>> On the disadvantages...
>> - Most important (because of the "smalltalk culture", mostly) is the fact we loose the "all in smalltalk" thing...but that's  not an issue IMHO. Pharo community is a lot more open than others, and we already are using some non-smalltalk tools (like hudson for building and google for tracking)
>> - Yes, merging, etc. can be harder, but I think using a nice file format can lower this impact (and we are still supporting image-to/from-file merging).
>>
>> A couple of years ago some guys released SqueakSVN, as an alternative, but it failed to become an option... I think because SVN was already old at that time, and also because installation, etc. was hard, and also because it was an "incomplete" work, I think. Anyway... I'm doing this stuff because I need it, and I hope some others will consider it useful :)
>> So... well... stay in touch ;)
>>
>> cheers,
>> Esteban
>>
>> pd: yes... I know... I'm currently handling more projects than I can do... and that delays all my projects... but I'm doing my best, and any help is welcome :)
>>
>> El 21/02/2011, a las 1:55p.m., Guillermo Polito escribió:
>>
>>> I don't know if we have to change to another kind of service.  But we MUST have alternatives.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Igor Stasenko <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Come on. We are talking about quality of service here, or about
>>> changing the service?
>>> I don't think that after migrating to (put your favorite here), we
>>> won't have any new problems. And then same, lack of people who can
>>> address them.
>>>
>>> On 21 February 2011 17:39, Adrian Lienhard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 21, 2011, at 17:22 , Camillo Bruni wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> how about a file based system and git?
>>>>
>>>> yea, just discussed this very idea an hour ago...
>>>>
>>>> The simplest thing that could work:
>>>> - Write out changes to files (for each method and class)
>>>> - Use git to commit, push, pull, merge, etc.
>>>> - After git actions, load changed files and compile
>>>>
>>>> Advantage:
>>>> - can reuse good existing tools and infrastructure: git, github, etc.
>>>> - probably faster than MC + SqueakSource
>>>> - lower entry barrier for new people
>>>>
>>>> Disadvantage:
>>>> - source control tools not integrated anymore
>>>> - resolving merge conflicts may be tedious
>>>> - we don't have our own solution for everything anymore ;)
>>>>
>>>> Adrian
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2011-02-21, at 16:48, Fabrizio Perin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well more or less every 10 days i need to restart it. This discussion happen
>>>>>> already in different threads but again the problems are:
>>>>>> 1- The machine hosting squeaksource is an old mac. Maybe on a new machine
>>>>>> running linux it could be better.
>>>>>> 2- SqueakSource is running in a squeakimage on a SqueakVM 3.9 (if i'm not
>>>>>> wrong - anyway is very old stuff) and as far as i get, a porting to a more
>>>>>> recent environment (let say a pharo 1.3 on a cog vm) will mean to rewrite
>>>>>> entirely squaeksource.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, this is a well know problem and a lot of people is already moving to
>>>>>> solve it (surely you can find lots of email from Stephan talking about
>>>>>> this). I'm trying to keep the system alive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fabrizio
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> do nothing, just wait and see until SqueakSource turns completely unusable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know if people won't noticed or don't want to admit it, but
>>>>>>> SqueakSource is down very often lately..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2011/2/21 Fabrizio Perin <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>>>> SqueakSource is up and running. I did restart it at 15:55 GTM+1 so i
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> know how i can help you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2011/2/21 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SqueakSource is down again. I'm tired of this situation, there is any
>>>>>>>>> alternative "free" repository?
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Hernán Morales
>>>>>>>>> Information Technology Manager,
>>>>>>>>> Institute of Veterinary Genetics.
>>>>>>>>> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET).
>>>>>>>>> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina.
>>>>>>>>> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799.
>>>>>>>>> Internal: 422
>>>>>>>>> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

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