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Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

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Tim Mackinnon
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Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

Tim Mackinnon
I’m not sure if this is born out by others - but I’m finding that Pharo 7 is a bit less stable than Pharo 6 - I’m seeing quite a few seg-faults where the vm dies and terminates - both when the image is left running for a while, but also in fresh images where I do an Iceberg load of my projects. I’ve also seen a lot of weird things like corrupted fonts and keyboard focus/cursor keys not working properly.

From memory - I saw a lot less of this in Pharo 6 when I first moved to it.

Possibly my usage is a bit different (although I’m not sure) - but in all the cases above I’m using OSX (HighSierra - so the same Mac OS as Pharo 6) - with the 64bit vm and running full screen.

One thing that seems to help (but this is an early empirical observation) - if I save my image to a new name - this seems to help. So I’m wondering if there might be something in the build process that has changed and is causing some sort of instability?

I haven’t done this long enough to really comment - but from all of the above, having a Pharo.1.image seemed to stop my problems.

Possibly I’ve been unlucky - but of 7 images I’ve used in the last 2 weeks - 5 of them have had issues. I did notice that half of these images were the rc1 build 1436 setup (as I hadn’t noticed that the blessed 7.0 stable image has a different version number (previously, the last builds in PL Pharo 7 development - was the stable version - unless work then went forward for a Pharo 7.1. I liked to nab the dev version so that I know the build number to report it. I now see the about Pharo in the image also lists this number). Also some of my images were retrieved via zeroConf in the terminal (again, not sure if this makes a difference - but did that a lot with P6 too).

This isn’t a complaint per se - as we need to move the platform forward and forge new approaches. So I really mention it to try and help diagnose the issues - or possibly understand if I’m doing something weird.

Tim
Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list
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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list
Personally, when I leave P7 open for a few hours, it slows down significantly. I have to save the image and open it back to not have any slug. 

Cheers,
Alexandre


http://bergel.eu

Le 15 févr. 2019 à 08:11, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> a écrit :

I’m not sure if this is born out by others - but I’m finding that Pharo 7 is a bit less stable than Pharo 6 - I’m seeing quite a few seg-faults where the vm dies and terminates - both when the image is left running for a while, but also in fresh images where I do an Iceberg load of my projects. I’ve also seen a lot of weird things like corrupted fonts and keyboard focus/cursor keys not working properly.

From memory - I saw a lot less of this in Pharo 6 when I first moved to it.

Possibly my usage is a bit different (although I’m not sure) - but in all the cases above I’m using OSX (HighSierra - so the same Mac OS as Pharo 6) - with the 64bit vm and running full screen.

One thing that seems to help (but this is an early empirical observation) - if I save my image to a new name - this seems to help. So I’m wondering if there might be something in the build process that has changed and is causing some sort of instability?

I haven’t done this long enough to really comment - but from all of the above, having a Pharo.1.image seemed to stop my problems.

Possibly I’ve been unlucky - but of 7 images I’ve used in the last 2 weeks - 5 of them have had issues. I did notice that half of these images were the rc1 build 1436 setup (as I hadn’t noticed that the blessed 7.0 stable image has a different version number (previously, the last builds in PL Pharo 7 development - was the stable version - unless work then went forward for a Pharo 7.1. I liked to nab the dev version so that I know the build number to report it. I now see the about Pharo in the image also lists this number). Also some of my images were retrieved via zeroConf in the terminal (again, not sure if this makes a difference - but did that a lot with P6 too).

This isn’t a complaint per se - as we need to move the platform forward and forge new approaches. So I really mention it to try and help diagnose the issues - or possibly understand if I’m doing something weird.

Tim
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
In reply to this post by Tim Mackinnon
I have been running Pharo 7.0[.1] for months on macOS 10.14.3 64-bit downloaded with ZeroConf and I have had no stability issues. I leave one or more images open going in and out of sleep on my MacBook Pro. I don't run full-screen, just semi-full-screen (Option-Click the green grow bullet, which leaves the menu bar visible).

But YMMV, it all depends on what you are exactly doing. One (external) library, one different behaviour, one UI change can make a difference.

> On 15 Feb 2019, at 12:11, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I’m not sure if this is born out by others - but I’m finding that Pharo 7 is a bit less stable than Pharo 6 - I’m seeing quite a few seg-faults where the vm dies and terminates - both when the image is left running for a while, but also in fresh images where I do an Iceberg load of my projects. I’ve also seen a lot of weird things like corrupted fonts and keyboard focus/cursor keys not working properly.
>
> From memory - I saw a lot less of this in Pharo 6 when I first moved to it.
>
> Possibly my usage is a bit different (although I’m not sure) - but in all the cases above I’m using OSX (HighSierra - so the same Mac OS as Pharo 6) - with the 64bit vm and running full screen.
>
> One thing that seems to help (but this is an early empirical observation) - if I save my image to a new name - this seems to help. So I’m wondering if there might be something in the build process that has changed and is causing some sort of instability?
>
> I haven’t done this long enough to really comment - but from all of the above, having a Pharo.1.image seemed to stop my problems.
>
> Possibly I’ve been unlucky - but of 7 images I’ve used in the last 2 weeks - 5 of them have had issues. I did notice that half of these images were the rc1 build 1436 setup (as I hadn’t noticed that the blessed 7.0 stable image has a different version number (previously, the last builds in PL Pharo 7 development - was the stable version - unless work then went forward for a Pharo 7.1. I liked to nab the dev version so that I know the build number to report it. I now see the about Pharo in the image also lists this number). Also some of my images were retrieved via zeroConf in the terminal (again, not sure if this makes a difference - but did that a lot with P6 too).
>
> This isn’t a complaint per se - as we need to move the platform forward and forge new approaches. So I really mention it to try and help diagnose the issues - or possibly understand if I’m doing something weird.
>
> Tim


HilaireFernandes
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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by Tim Mackinnon
Depends on what you are doing, I guess.

I am using the same P7 32bits image on linux since June 2018, but I am
doing bare bone smalltalk, and I don't use iceberg. It could be the
source of your problem as it is still new, or it could be the 64bits
image/vm. You could give a try for the 32bits version for a few days..

Le 15/02/2019 à 12:11, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
> I’m not sure if this is born out by others - but I’m finding that Pharo 7 is a bit less stable than Pharo 6 - I’m seeing quite a few seg-faults where the vm dies and terminates - both when the image is left running for a while, but also in fresh images where I do an Iceberg load of my projects. I’ve also seen a lot of weird things like corrupted fonts and keyboard focus/cursor keys not working properly.

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu



http://drgeo.eu
Tim Mackinnon
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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

Tim Mackinnon
So the zeroconf image I launched yesterday morning crashed at 10:30pm last night. So I will try leaving the same image open again but not full screen (and see if thats the difference).

But this is honestly a trivial example, and I’m surprised it crashes so easily (5 or 6 times, so every day this week) - 

As mentioned, I’m on OSX HighSierra I get a zero conf image (which I believe is the 32 bit version?)


Then I run:

./pharo-ui Pharo.image eval "
Metacello new 
 baseline: 'Exercism'; 
 repository: '<a href="github://macta/pharo-exercism:master/dev/src" class="">github://macta/pharo-exercism:master/dev/src';
 load.
ExercismManager welcome.
"

This loads a pretty small baseline along with 25ish classes that make up the Exercism project:

setUpDependencies: spec

spec 
configuration: 'OSProcess' 
with: [
spec
className: #ConfigurationOfOSProcess;
versionString: #'stable';
spec
baseline: 'ExternalWebBrowser'
with: [ spec
repository: '<a href="github://seandenigris/Pharo-Web-Browser:master/repository" class="">github://seandenigris/Pharo-Web-Browser:master/repository' ];
import: 'ExternalWebBrowser'.


I then run a few tests, and use exercism to retrieve a few exercises (via http). Then I do a bit of TDD with the debugger to solve 1 or 2 exercises (but trivial, like reverse-string). And then I leave my image open and close my laptop. This is nothing that I haven’t done in Pharo 6 hundreds of time.

For the record -

The console reports (and the apple diagnostic is below that)

CurrentExecutionEnvironment class>>runTestCase:
TwoFerTest(TestCase)>>runCaseManaged
[ aTestCase announce: TestCaseStarted withResult: self.
aTestCase runCaseManaged.
aTestCase announce: TestCaseEnded withResult: self.
"To not affect performance of big test suites following logic is not inside addPass: method"
errors remove: aTestCase ifAbsent: [  ].
failures remove: aTestCase ifAbsent: [  ].
self addPass: aTestCase ] in TestResult>>runCaseForDebug: in Block: [ aTestCase announce: TestCaseStarted withResult: ...etc...
BlockClosure>>on:do:
TestResult>>runCaseForDebug:
[ result runCaseForDebug: self ] in TwoFerTest(TestCase)>>debug in Block: [ result runCaseForDebug: self ]
BlockClosure>>ensure:
TwoFerTest(TestCase)>>debug
Pharo(85584,0xa983a1c0) malloc: *** mach_vm_map(size=8388608) failed (error code=3)
*** error: can't allocate region securely
*** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug

Segmentation fault Fri Feb 15 22:34:53 2019


Date: Sat Jan 5 20:00:11 2019 CommitHash: 7a3c6b6

C stack backtrace & registers:
eax 0x00000000 ebx 0xfd159000 ecx 0x00000000 edx 0xfd159000
edi 0xfd159000 esi 0xfd159000 ebp 0xbff51c58 esp 0xbff51c50
eip 0xa67905d7
0   libobjc.A.dylib                     0xa67905d7 _ZN12_GLOBAL__N_119AutoreleasePoolPageC1EPS0_ + 9
1   Pharo                               0x00124cf3 reportStackState + 770
2   Pharo                               0x001250b1 sigsegv + 213
3   libsystem_platform.dylib            0xa757102b _sigtramp + 43
4   ???                                 0xffffffff 0x0 + 4294967295
5   libobjc.A.dylib                     0xa67933f2 _ZN12_GLOBAL__N_119AutoreleasePoolPage19autoreleaseFullPageEP11objc_objectPS0_ + 56
6   libobjc.A.dylib                     0xa6791495 _ZN11objc_object16rootAutorelease2Ev + 79
7   AppKit                              0x91aed8cb -[NSApplication(NSEvent) _setCurrentEvent:] + 63
8   AppKit                              0x91aed15a -[NSApplication(NSEvent) _nextEventMatchingEventMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 3577
9   AppKit                              0x91aec359 -[NSApplication(NSEvent) nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 134
10  Pharo                               0x001191f8 -[sqSqueakOSXApplication(events) pumpRunLoopEventSendAndSignal:] + 332
11  Pharo                               0x0011929f -[sqSqueakOSXApplication(events) pumpRunLoop] + 67
12  Pharo                               0x00123770 vmIOProcessEvents + 190
13  Pharo                               0x001237d7 ioProcessEvents + 57
14  Pharo                               0x000b6726 checkForEventsMayContextSwitch + 866
15  Pharo                               0x000b7e51 ceCheckForInterrupts + 16
16  ???                                 0x0375f1cb 0x0 + 58061259
17  Pharo                               0x000a7189 interpret + 757
18  Pharo                               0x0012618c -[sqSqueakMainApplication runSqueak] + 439
19  Foundation                          0x95214299 __NSFirePerformWithOrder + 432
20  CoreFoundation                      0x937994b6 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_AN_OBSERVER_CALLBACK_FUNCTION__ + 22
21  CoreFoundation                      0x937993d2 __CFRunLoopDoObservers + 498
22  CoreFoundation                      0x9377c81d __CFRunLoopRun + 1661
23  CoreFoundation                      0x9377be71 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 641
24  CoreFoundation                      0x9377bbda CFRunLoopRunInMode + 122
25  HIToolbox                           0x92d7937b RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 321
26  HIToolbox                           0x92d78f5f ReceiveNextEventCommon + 454
27  HIToolbox                           0x92d78d7b _BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInModeWithFilter + 71
28  AppKit                              0x9137ab2d _DPSNextEvent + 2101
29  AppKit                              0x91aece8c -[NSApplication(NSEvent) _nextEventMatchingEventMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 2859
30  AppKit                              0x91aec359 -[NSApplication(NSEvent) nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 134
31  AppKit                              0x9136fa7d -[NSApplication run] + 763
32  AppKit                              0x91341b3a NSApplicationMain + 1228
33  libdyld.dylib                       0xa7268611 start + 1


Smalltalk stack dump:
0xbff57ed0 M ProcessorScheduler class>idleProcess 0x4473c98: a(n) ProcessorScheduler class
 0x6e68f18 s [] in ProcessorScheduler class>startUp
 0x6947bc8 s [] in BlockClosure>newProcess

Most recent primitives
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millisecondClockValue
yield
millisecondClockValue
wait
signal
signal
nowTick
+
nowTick
>=
nowTick
+
<
primSignal:atUTCMicroseconds:
wait
wait
relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds:

stack page bytes 4096 available headroom 2788 minimum unused headroom 2072

(Segmentation fault)
./pharo-ui: line 11: 85584 Abort trap: 6           "$DIR"/"pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo" "$@“


apple diagnostic reports:

Process:               Pharo [85584]
Path:                  /Users/USER/*/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo
Identifier:            org.pharo.Pharo
Version:               5.0.201901051900 (5.0.201901051900)
Code Type:             X86 (Native)
Parent Process:        ??? [85580]
Responsible:           Pharo [85584]
User ID:               501

Date/Time:             2019-02-15 22:34:53.892 +0000
OS Version:            Mac OS X 10.13.5 (17F77)
Report Version:        12
Anonymous UUID:        262197AA-D8D7-1768-420F-0B635BF5C77D

Sleep/Wake UUID:       229479AF-3866-4F5C-954B-280CC41FBBCE

Time Awake Since Boot: 1000000 seconds
Time Since Wake:       2000 seconds

System Integrity Protection: enabled

Crashed Thread:        0  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

Exception Type:        EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGABRT)
Exception Codes:       KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000000
Exception Note:        EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY

VM Regions Near 0:
--> 
    __TEXT                 00000000000a5000-0000000000176000 [  836K] r-x/rwx SM=COW  ] [/Users/macta/Dev/Exercism/pharo7e1/pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo]

Application Specific Information:
abort() called

Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib         0xa73c3eda __pthread_kill + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa757c427 pthread_kill + 363
2   libsystem_c.dylib             0xa7312956 abort + 133
3   org.pharo.Pharo               0x001250bf sigsegv + 227
4   libsystem_platform.dylib       0xa757102b _sigtramp + 43
5   ???                           0xffffffff 0 + 4294967295
6   org.pharo.Pharo               0x00124fdc getCrashDumpFilenameInto + 82
7   libobjc.A.dylib               0xa67933f2 (anonymous namespace)::AutoreleasePoolPage::autoreleaseFullPage(objc_object*, (anonymous namespace)::AutoreleasePoolPage*) + 56
8   libobjc.A.dylib               0xa6791495 objc_object::rootAutorelease2() + 79
9   com.apple.AppKit               0x91aed8cb -[NSApplication(NSEvent) _setCurrentEvent:] + 63
10  com.apple.AppKit               0x91aed15a -[NSApplication(NSEvent) _nextEventMatchingEventMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 3577
11  com.apple.AppKit               0x91aec359 -[NSApplication(NSEvent) nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 134
12  org.pharo.Pharo               0x001191f8 -[sqSqueakOSXApplication(events) pumpRunLoopEventSendAndSignal:] + 332
13  org.pharo.Pharo               0x0011929f -[sqSqueakOSXApplication(events) pumpRunLoop] + 67
14  org.pharo.Pharo               0x00123770 vmIOProcessEvents + 190
15  org.pharo.Pharo               0x001237d7 ioProcessEvents + 57
16  org.pharo.Pharo               0x000b6726 checkForEventsMayContextSwitch + 866
17  org.pharo.Pharo               0x000b7e51 ceCheckForInterrupts + 16
18  ???                           0x0375f1cb 0 + 58061259
19  org.pharo.Pharo               0x000a7189 interpret + 757
20  org.pharo.Pharo               0x0012618c -[sqSqueakMainApplication runSqueak] + 439
21  com.apple.Foundation           0x95214299 __NSFirePerformWithOrder + 432
22  com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x937994b6 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_AN_OBSERVER_CALLBACK_FUNCTION__ + 22
23  com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x937993d2 __CFRunLoopDoObservers + 498
24  com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377c81d __CFRunLoopRun + 1661
25  com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377be71 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 641
26  com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377bbda CFRunLoopRunInMode + 122
27  com.apple.HIToolbox           0x92d7937b RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 321
28  com.apple.HIToolbox           0x92d78f5f ReceiveNextEventCommon + 454
29  com.apple.HIToolbox           0x92d78d7b _BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInModeWithFilter + 71
30  com.apple.AppKit               0x9137ab2d _DPSNextEvent + 2101
31  com.apple.AppKit               0x91aece8c -[NSApplication(NSEvent) _nextEventMatchingEventMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 2859
32  com.apple.AppKit               0x91aec359 -[NSApplication(NSEvent) nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 134
33  com.apple.AppKit               0x9136fa7d -[NSApplication run] + 763
34  com.apple.AppKit               0x91341b3a NSApplicationMain + 1228
35  libdyld.dylib                 0xa7268611 start + 1

Thread 1:: com.apple.coreaudio.AQClient
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib         0xa73ba422 mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libsystem_kernel.dylib         0xa73b9acf mach_msg + 159
2   com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377da88 __CFRunLoopServiceMachPort + 296
3   com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377ca76 __CFRunLoopRun + 2262
4   com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377be71 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 641
5   com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377bbda CFRunLoopRunInMode + 122
6   com.apple.audio.toolbox.AudioToolbox 0x9263c084 GenericRunLoopThread::Entry(void*) + 138
7   com.apple.audio.toolbox.AudioToolbox 0x9263bfba CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 94
8   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa75794d5 _pthread_body + 347
9   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa757937a _pthread_start + 357
10  libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa7578a56 thread_start + 34

Thread 2:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib         0xa73c4152 __semwait_signal + 10
1   libsystem_c.dylib             0xa732fdb7 nanosleep$UNIX2003 + 189
2   org.pharo.Pharo               0x00127f30 beatStateMachine + 106
3   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa75794d5 _pthread_body + 347
4   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa757937a _pthread_start + 357
5   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa7578a56 thread_start + 34

Thread 3:: com.apple.NSEventThread
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib         0xa73ba422 mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libsystem_kernel.dylib         0xa73b9a5f mach_msg + 47
2   com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377da88 __CFRunLoopServiceMachPort + 296
3   com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377ca76 __CFRunLoopRun + 2262
4   com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377be71 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 641
5   com.apple.CoreFoundation       0x9377bbda CFRunLoopRunInMode + 122
6   com.apple.AppKit               0x914aa57c _NSEventThread + 165
7   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa75794d5 _pthread_body + 347
8   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa757937a _pthread_start + 357
9   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa7578a56 thread_start + 34

Thread 4:
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib         0xa73c471a __workq_kernreturn + 10
1   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa7578e64 _pthread_wqthread + 1035
2   libsystem_pthread.dylib       0xa7578a32 start_wqthread + 34

Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit):
  eax: 0x00000000  ebx: 0xa983a1c0  ecx: 0xbff513cc  edx: 0x00000000
  edi: 0xa757c2ca  esi: 0x0000002d  ebp: 0xbff513f8  esp: 0xbff513cc
   ss: 0x00000023  efl: 0x00000206  eip: 0xa73c3eda   cs: 0x0000000b
   ds: 0x00000023   es: 0x00000023   fs: 0x00000000   gs: 0x0000000f
  cr2: 0x7d45f004
  
Logical CPU:     0
Error Code:      0x00080148
Trap Number:     132


Binary Images:
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  0x28a000 -   0x2d005f  dyld (551.3) <AEE46C03-FE99-3D3F-9A28-119D4A885857> /usr/lib/dyld
 0x260b000 -  0x260ffff  com.apple.audio.AppleHDAHALPlugIn (281.52 - 281.52) <943990E2-9A7B-3078-845B-9D0153680DB4> /System/Library/Extensions/AppleHDA.kext/Contents/PlugIns/AppleHDAHALPlugIn.bundle/Contents/MacOS/AppleHDAHALPlugIn
 0x2615000 -  0x2616fff +libLocalePlugin.dylib (0) <26B928B3-B609-3924-8B88-0355CB1B91A9> /Users/USER/*/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins/libLocalePlugin.dylib
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0x90b34000 - 0x90b61ffb  libBNNS.dylib (38.1) <B9685933-6EBE-3123-9CA2-CD7963241A22> /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libBNNS.dylib
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0x90eed000 - 0x90f06ff7  libSparseBLAS.dylib (1211.50.2) <43DB3D39-727E-3C75-9286-11045DEFC21D> /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libSparseBLAS.dylib
0x90f07000 - 0x91066fc7  libvDSP.dylib (622.50.5) <A10E62DA-511A-35C0-9EC2-6B22D56494E5> /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libvDSP.dylib
0x91067000 - 0x91147ffb  libvMisc.dylib (622.50.5) <5969D356-9DDA-33FB-B9E8-6BD5E1C4EB05> /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libvMisc.dylib
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0x92151000 - 0x921b7ff3  com.apple.ApplicationServices.ATS (377 - 445.4) <65D4E2E8-5B98-3666-863D-4DE452311550> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS
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0x92419000 - 0x9241efff  com.apple.ColorSyncLegacy (4.13.0 - 1) <987F0D58-C5CD-3C1F-A88B-DBDE4C3E73D8> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSyncLegacy.framework/Versions/A/ColorSyncLegacy
0x924c8000 - 0x92520fff  com.apple.HIServices (1.22 - 624.1) <3D8C7044-D149-325D-B55E-09BC57665193> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices
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0x92531000 - 0x92589ffb  com.apple.print.framework.PrintCore (13.4 - 503.2) <E28CF09A-9AEC-3D70-AF27-F428332FEB74> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore
0x9258a000 - 0x92620ff7  com.apple.QD (3.12 - 404.2) <113D0ECA-A6B2-39A7-AE1E-CAE7B40A3CAF> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD
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0x9287e000 - 0x9287efff  com.apple.audio.units.AudioUnit (1.14 - 1.14) <24D68C49-15B8-31B8-A3BB-CAD584CD2CAC> /System/Library/Frameworks/AudioUnit.framework/Versions/A/AudioUnit
0x929b6000 - 0x92d2bfff  com.apple.CFNetwork (901.1 - 901.1) <F957C597-9C0F-3884-B9A2-0CAAF17FCE64> /System/Library/Frameworks/CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork
0x92d41000 - 0x92d4aff3  com.apple.audio.SoundManager (4.2 - 4.2) <FA75FD1F-2FEE-3E25-A160-AF78044082BE> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonSound.framework/Versions/A/CarbonSound
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0x93146000 - 0x931e0ffb  com.apple.ink.framework (10.9 - 221) <68D3D209-BCB1-3750-8632-C12DE8F250B1> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink
0x931e1000 - 0x9321bfff  com.apple.NavigationServices (3.8 - 227) <AD26CCEE-6468-317F-9540-EEE95A6E0990> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/NavigationServices.framework/Versions/A/NavigationServices
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0x93241000 - 0x93247fff  com.apple.speech.recognition.framework (6.0.3 - 6.0.3) <03DE054B-239F-3D6F-BBED-98FE8EC6A3C0> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition
0x93248000 - 0x93248fff  com.apple.Cocoa (6.11 - 22) <8419F291-2B0B-322A-91CE-DBCD8082C778> /System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework/Versions/A/Cocoa
0x93255000 - 0x93314ff3  com.apple.ColorSync (4.13.0 - 3325) <C28DA8B8-868E-3BF8-A327-904DC9348FA6> /System/Library/Frameworks/ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync
0x93315000 - 0x933b0fff  com.apple.audio.CoreAudio (4.3.0 - 4.3.0) <B665144E-6421-39FD-9DFA-E1B2BB96CD34> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreAudio.framework/Versions/A/CoreAudio
0x9340e000 - 0x93413fff  com.apple.CoreBluetooth (1.0 - 1) <D8E00284-8021-3A90-8379-CF161DA6078B> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreBluetooth.framework/Versions/A/CoreBluetooth
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0x936f7000 - 0x936fdff3  com.apple.CoreDisplay (1.0 - 97.21) <3C9F1E4B-0BEB-3BBC-81D1-3F90F54211DF> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreDisplay.framework/Versions/A/CoreDisplay
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0x93b8a000 - 0x941bdff3  com.apple.CoreGraphics (2.0 - 1161.21) <909796EA-77A5-3584-AE65-48B11952DBBC> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics
0x941bf000 - 0x94435ffb  com.apple.CoreImage (13.0.0 - 579.5) <3ABBFE1A-2E03-31E5-98E8-4E3D5D6D1FB4> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreImage.framework/Versions/A/CoreImage
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0x9463d000 - 0x9463dfff  com.apple.CoreServices (822.33 - 822.33) <DAD579FC-6A21-3989-B014-C3CE888E5E5E> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices
0x9463e000 - 0x946b0ff3  com.apple.AE (735.1 - 735.1) <72876D21-3967-3CBE-9006-3E33FEFA6505> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE
0x946b1000 - 0x9498fff7  com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore (1178.4 - 1178.4) <3BC3590D-F528-39EE-8D6B-13526E5CE810> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore
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0x949ce000 - 0x94b2dff7  com.apple.LaunchServices (822.32 - 822.32) <F6BFB16B-D6B3-3730-94C0-9490B2C63371> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices
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0x94c3e000 - 0x94caffff  com.apple.SearchKit (1.4.0 - 1.4.0) <B3E3985C-7739-3815-8A89-477F975C2029> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit
0x94cb0000 - 0x94cd3fff  com.apple.coreservices.SharedFileList (71.21 - 71.21) <8B10F426-0DF3-3FCE-B5DB-F3860BAA860F> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SharedFileList.framework/Versions/A/SharedFileList
0x94cd4000 - 0x94e20ffb  com.apple.CoreText (352.0 - 578.18) <CF0AF654-0DDD-3FA3-BE0E-FBB90D45BE83> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText
0x94e21000 - 0x94e5bffb  com.apple.CoreVideo (1.8 - 0.0) <4B4E52AC-7BBA-375E-9D86-1DD096410604> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreVideo.framework/Versions/A/CoreVideo
0x94e5c000 - 0x94ee3ff3  com.apple.framework.CoreWLAN (13.0 - 1350.1) <68C405BD-8A07-3080-A9F0-938D0A2B49C8> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreWLAN.framework/Versions/A/CoreWLAN
0x95137000 - 0x95140ff7  com.apple.DiskArbitration (2.7 - 2.7) <F866E76D-7FFA-3E93-9A8A-32C3754F1F33> /System/Library/Frameworks/DiskArbitration.framework/Versions/A/DiskArbitration
0x95151000 - 0x954c1ffb  com.apple.Foundation (6.9 - 1452.23) <9212AB5F-B5FC-37C8-8059-853B006434E1> /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation
0x95502000 - 0x95531ff3  com.apple.GSS (4.0 - 2.0) <0BB8D894-20EA-3D83-A79B-654623C674B4> /System/Library/Frameworks/GSS.framework/Versions/A/GSS
0x9555e000 - 0x95676ff3  com.apple.Bluetooth (6.0.6 - 6.0.6f2) <E83F7CF7-7776-3FE6-9B45-8FA27C09EACE> /System/Library/Frameworks/IOBluetooth.framework/Versions/A/IOBluetooth
0x956dc000 - 0x9577dff7  com.apple.framework.IOKit (2.0.2 - 1445.60.1) <5289B606-E36C-3DDC-B8D5-2151B1EE2933> /System/Library/Frameworks/IOKit.framework/Versions/A/IOKit
0x9577f000 - 0x95786fff  com.apple.IOSurface (211.12 - 211.12) <B24705CD-3B67-3D4C-A194-FE817FAFF983> /System/Library/Frameworks/IOSurface.framework/Versions/A/IOSurface
0x957db000 - 0x9595fff7  com.apple.ImageIO.framework (3.3.0 - 1739.3) <EEC26E38-3136-346E-8293-4993854F328C> /System/Library/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO
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0xa5706000 - 0xa571bff7  libcompression.dylib (47.60.2) <FB4313A1-D9BE-36DD-A8A2-1AC45D0320AD> /usr/lib/libcompression.dylib
0xa571c000 - 0xa5733ffb  libcoretls.dylib (155.50.1) <A7FFC69E-B53D-324D-8AE1-C1AC50CEB37F> /usr/lib/libcoretls.dylib
0xa5734000 - 0xa5735fff  libcoretls_cfhelpers.dylib (155.50.1) <D210E966-844F-3A00-A17E-7489EE444E36> /usr/lib/libcoretls_cfhelpers.dylib
0xa58b6000 - 0xa5a5dff3  libcrypto.35.dylib (22.50.2) <A658A3FD-A5C4-3DC9-9A45-A2E97282D419> /usr/lib/libcrypto.35.dylib
0xa5c1d000 - 0xa5c74fff  libcups.2.dylib (462.2.1) <806D6B01-D043-325B-9EB3-7BC8DD781B8C> /usr/lib/libcups.2.dylib
0xa5ca0000 - 0xa5cf2fff  libcurl.4.dylib (105.40.1) <9809E78E-365C-3F94-A230-4933A28558E0> /usr/lib/libcurl.4.dylib
0xa5d8b000 - 0xa5d8bfff  libenergytrace.dylib (16) <34FC43C7-D9B6-3C01-8B65-E49059D31279> /usr/lib/libenergytrace.dylib
0xa5dbf000 - 0xa5dc3fff  libheimdal-asn1.dylib (520.50.6) <CAA45AC8-3953-38C7-B6C1-E7ACA1607054> /usr/lib/libheimdal-asn1.dylib
0xa5def000 - 0xa5edfff3  libiconv.2.dylib (51.50.1) <F3BF51D6-CFAD-3105-AF32-0667945E0F99> /usr/lib/libiconv.2.dylib
0xa5ee0000 - 0xa6102ff7  libicucore.A.dylib (59180.0.1) <7A26EF2B-5D18-319D-9FF5-72D1142A6059> /usr/lib/libicucore.A.dylib
0xa614a000 - 0xa614bfff  liblangid.dylib (128) <120FE992-47E4-3A73-A039-1B401F5696DC> /usr/lib/liblangid.dylib
0xa614c000 - 0xa6164ff7  liblzma.5.dylib (10) <8A5C9679-430A-3A19-AF68-9D21BAC442C7> /usr/lib/liblzma.5.dylib
0xa6165000 - 0xa617afff  libmarisa.dylib (9) <805453EE-B829-3DA5-8DF3-5132D03D5B74> /usr/lib/libmarisa.dylib
0xa622f000 - 0xa644cfff  libmecabra.dylib (779.7.6) <A6D0BC1B-9DF2-3A26-8E1A-06AE207355E7> /usr/lib/libmecabra.dylib
0xa6613000 - 0xa678aff3  libnetwork.dylib (1229.60.3) <25A51968-46C6-3E05-A005-5D4F6CE01AD2> /usr/lib/libnetwork.dylib
0xa678b000 - 0xa6b6b0fb  libobjc.A.dylib (723) <069E8DD2-ECBD-3296-9688-199A93DB8F1F> /usr/lib/libobjc.A.dylib
0xa6b6f000 - 0xa6b72fff  libpam.2.dylib (22) <7106F43C-84DD-3F26-905A-B52780AFEB3E> /usr/lib/libpam.2.dylib
0xa6b75000 - 0xa6ba6fff  libpcap.A.dylib (79.20.1) <154889CF-5F83-3012-953E-0FC8FEE50FF8> /usr/lib/libpcap.A.dylib
0xa6be4000 - 0xa6bffffb  libresolv.9.dylib (65) <65A43F5B-CF88-3948-AE5C-D7CA02D814A1> /usr/lib/libresolv.9.dylib
0xa6c38000 - 0xa6c49ff7  libsasl2.2.dylib (211) <42C44CD3-07F5-3D62-8D63-350AD6FC6A63> /usr/lib/libsasl2.2.dylib
0xa6c4a000 - 0xa6dd4ffb  libsqlite3.dylib (274.8.1) <2865CDEE-96C4-3ECC-9F4B-876D0CD27C41> /usr/lib/libsqlite3.dylib
0xa6e2c000 - 0xa6e8affb  libssl.35.dylib (22.50.2) <1AAEE15A-D711-3B1B-81A9-3195E6EFB3DE> /usr/lib/libssl.35.dylib
0xa6f78000 - 0xa6fd7fff  libusrtcp.dylib (1229.60.3) <39EAD1BC-7817-3C8B-890E-B1619826479D> /usr/lib/libusrtcp.dylib
0xa6fd8000 - 0xa6fdbff7  libutil.dylib (51.20.1) <86BD9675-16A2-345D-9B8D-E8A3397F2365> /usr/lib/libutil.dylib
0xa6fdc000 - 0xa6feaff7  libxar.1.dylib (400) <4B664A7E-EC05-34AD-ACC6-C879B69DBA7C> /usr/lib/libxar.1.dylib
0xa6feb000 - 0xa70c9ff7  libxml2.2.dylib (31.10) <A5264063-CE4F-38CE-B884-197B2765E5AB> /usr/lib/libxml2.2.dylib
0xa70ca000 - 0xa70f2ff3  libxslt.1.dylib (15.12) <2A385CB5-9458-3408-A4F2-1F51553823F4> /usr/lib/libxslt.1.dylib
0xa70f3000 - 0xa7102ff7  libz.1.dylib (70) <588F445F-0065-3D77-8002-BA9411DA1D70> /usr/lib/libz.1.dylib
0xa713d000 - 0xa7141fff  libcache.dylib (80) <E9928057-A238-3619-8E30-4D1C21C9493C> /usr/lib/system/libcache.dylib
0xa7142000 - 0xa714cfff  libcommonCrypto.dylib (60118.50.1) <95434E97-2B85-3607-9E02-2A8CFD178D23> /usr/lib/system/libcommonCrypto.dylib
0xa714d000 - 0xa7152fff  libcompiler_rt.dylib (62) <B9947B1F-9930-385A-A960-856CF6C539CF> /usr/lib/system/libcompiler_rt.dylib
0xa7153000 - 0xa715dff3  libcopyfile.dylib (146.50.5) <6A3EF295-2778-3405-BE11-8947695F4A31> /usr/lib/system/libcopyfile.dylib
0xa715e000 - 0xa71c6ff7  libcorecrypto.dylib (562.50.17) <FCA475BB-944F-3589-A662-D71043482D28> /usr/lib/system/libcorecrypto.dylib
0xa7231000 - 0xa7266fff  libdispatch.dylib (913.60.2) <49A9530D-9FB7-38C3-9583-E5F0AAEB3E95> /usr/lib/system/libdispatch.dylib
0xa7267000 - 0xa7284fff  libdyld.dylib (551.3) <42AC1F77-75EC-3464-B24D-8E95F72FFE21> /usr/lib/system/libdyld.dylib
0xa7285000 - 0xa7285fff  libkeymgr.dylib (28) <35604C10-4B09-3AA0-9694-87D40C15E706> /usr/lib/system/libkeymgr.dylib
0xa7286000 - 0xa7292ff7  libkxld.dylib (4570.61.1) <166C52CE-93C2-3512-923F-542EDC492A4C> /usr/lib/system/libkxld.dylib
0xa7293000 - 0xa7293fff  liblaunch.dylib (1205.60.9) <3853D7AE-4A44-3D5A-BD3C-210F04C8D523> /usr/lib/system/liblaunch.dylib
0xa7294000 - 0xa7299fff  libmacho.dylib (906) <14070ABC-E6F7-3CD5-9527-56E38D65BC74> /usr/lib/system/libmacho.dylib
0xa729a000 - 0xa729cfff  libquarantine.dylib (86) <2660EB51-FA02-36ED-9416-83A4A6849026> /usr/lib/system/libquarantine.dylib
0xa729d000 - 0xa729efff  libremovefile.dylib (45) <BE0DA6CE-2EF4-3BE9-84E1-BB27E1F385DD> /usr/lib/system/libremovefile.dylib
0xa729f000 - 0xa72b6ff7  libsystem_asl.dylib (356.50.1) <8C2103F0-0293-3450-A4D5-CDA224D6B1DD> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_asl.dylib
0xa72b7000 - 0xa72b7fff  libsystem_blocks.dylib (67) <D45F0CE1-D217-3B46-A84A-F884FE576E04> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_blocks.dylib
0xa72b8000 - 0xa7344ff3  libsystem_c.dylib (1244.50.9) <3A7B32B2-F70C-3148-A2B0-38412EF1489F> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_c.dylib
0xa7345000 - 0xa7348fff  libsystem_configuration.dylib (963.50.8) <EBE21758-807D-3038-91A9-F6075353C6A0> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_configuration.dylib
0xa7349000 - 0xa734cfff  libsystem_coreservices.dylib (51) <CF4379BC-AEDD-34DF-BFD7-CEA27B0930D5> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_coreservices.dylib
0xa734d000 - 0xa734efff  libsystem_darwin.dylib (1244.50.9) <326B9F59-5784-3C79-8A44-7C40D662C695> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_darwin.dylib
0xa734f000 - 0xa7355ff3  libsystem_dnssd.dylib (878.50.17) <72A8BEDC-0C7C-355F-843D-75469DD85581> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_dnssd.dylib
0xa7356000 - 0xa73a5ffb  libsystem_info.dylib (517.30.1) <E2FFFE29-1405-342E-8C57-31F681F510F7> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_info.dylib
0xa73a6000 - 0xa73caff3  libsystem_kernel.dylib (4570.61.1) <CF8A4C44-02A4-3C2B-B91B-9015F02D8DCF> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_kernel.dylib
0xa73cb000 - 0xa741afdb  libsystem_m.dylib (3147.50.1) <290D02E2-227B-3B0A-BBFC-B14BC657ADE8> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_m.dylib
0xa741b000 - 0xa7435fff  libsystem_malloc.dylib (140.50.6) <970603BE-8A36-3776-81A6-BC1B1D04AC35> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_malloc.dylib
0xa7436000 - 0xa755aff7  libsystem_network.dylib (1229.60.3) <6FCFE312-E7FD-382D-9246-2C8500A86ACB> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_network.dylib
0xa755b000 - 0xa7565fff  libsystem_networkextension.dylib (767.60.1) <E8916FFA-B9A1-300E-84C8-669933B8B92E> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_networkextension.dylib
0xa7566000 - 0xa756eff3  libsystem_notify.dylib (172) <27A79E60-9B05-3B28-B389-5759A72F7321> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_notify.dylib
0xa756f000 - 0xa7575ffb  libsystem_platform.dylib (161.50.1) <04C8CF15-A241-3BD8-87B5-DD5DA2DCD564> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_platform.dylib
0xa7576000 - 0xa7580ff3  libsystem_pthread.dylib (301.50.1) <95F98870-7DB1-3273-9E61-DEC04059BF18> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_pthread.dylib
0xa7581000 - 0xa7584ff3  libsystem_sandbox.dylib (765.60.1) <E689BACE-E8EE-39C6-BFD7-EE82CBD5EE82> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_sandbox.dylib
0xa7585000 - 0xa7587fff  libsystem_secinit.dylib (30) <F11770B6-8928-3F4A-A5B6-1A7E93247738> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_secinit.dylib
0xa7588000 - 0xa7590ff7  libsystem_symptoms.dylib (820.60.2) <7FECC881-A6A0-3DC5-9382-F7EFB829FB1C> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_symptoms.dylib
0xa7591000 - 0xa75a3ffb  libsystem_trace.dylib (829.50.17) <3786EA81-F02C-3115-A8B6-3AC9088EA04C> /usr/lib/system/libsystem_trace.dylib
0xa75a5000 - 0xa75abfff  libunwind.dylib (35.3) <C9C74974-E6CE-386D-AF72-DC21323AF40B> /usr/lib/system/libunwind.dylib
0xa75ac000 - 0xa75d5ff7  libxpc.dylib (1205.60.9) <D3F2BB40-7D04-362C-BDF0-2C379C05EE99> /usr/lib/system/libxpc.dylib

External Modification Summary:
  Calls made by other processes targeting this process:
    task_for_pid: 44
    thread_create: 0
    thread_set_state: 0
  Calls made by this process:
    task_for_pid: 0
    thread_create: 0
    thread_set_state: 0
  Calls made by all processes on this machine:
    task_for_pid: 979830
    thread_create: 0
    thread_set_state: 0

VM Region Summary:
ReadOnly portion of Libraries: Total=243.1M resident=0K(0%) swapped_out_or_unallocated=243.1M(100%)
Writable regions: Total=3.3G written=0K(0%) resident=0K(0%) swapped_out=0K(0%) unallocated=3.3G(100%)
 
                                VIRTUAL   REGION 
REGION TYPE                        SIZE    COUNT (non-coalesced) 
===========                     =======  ======= 
Accelerate framework               128K        2 
Activity Tracing                   256K        2 
CG backing stores                 11.1M        4 
CG image                           172K       16 
CoreAnimation                      144K       16 
CoreGraphics                         8K        2 
CoreImage                           16K        3 
CoreUI image data                 2028K       15 
CoreUI image file                  180K        4 
Foundation                           4K        2 
Kernel Alloc Once                    8K        2 
MALLOC                             3.2G      295 
MALLOC guard page                   48K       13 
MALLOC_LARGE (reserved)           1024K        2         reserved VM address space (unallocated)
Memory Tag 242                      12K        2 
Memory Tag 249                     156K        2 
OpenGL GLSL                        128K        3 
SBRK (reserved)                   4096K        2         reserved VM address space (unallocated)
Stack                             10.0M        6 
Stack Guard                       56.0M        6 
VM_ALLOCATE                       98.7M       33 
__DATA                            10.6M      240 
__FONT_DATA                          4K        2 
__GLSLBUILTINS                    2588K        2 
__LINKEDIT                        78.9M       17 
__OBJC                            3220K       85 
__TEXT                           164.2M      241 
__UNICODE                          560K        2 
mapped file                      301.7M      219 
shared memory                     5416K       15 
===========                     =======  ======= 
TOTAL                              3.9G     1225 
TOTAL, minus reserved VM space     3.9G     1225 

Model: MacBookPro12,1, BootROM MBP121.0176.B00, 2 processors, Intel Core i7, 3.1 GHz, 16 GB, SMC 2.28f7
Graphics: Intel Iris Graphics 6100, Intel Iris Graphics 6100, Built-In
Memory Module: BANK 0/DIMM0, 8 GB, DDR3, 1867 MHz, 0x02FE, 0x4544464232333241314D412D4A442D460000
Memory Module: BANK 1/DIMM0, 8 GB, DDR3, 1867 MHz, 0x02FE, 0x4544464232333241314D412D4A442D460000
AirPort: spairport_wireless_card_type_airport_extreme (0x14E4, 0x133), Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (7.77.37.31.1a9)
Bluetooth: Version 6.0.6f2, 3 services, 27 devices, 1 incoming serial ports
Network Service: Wi-Fi, AirPort, en0
Serial ATA Device: APPLE SSD SM0512G, 500.28 GB
USB Device: USB 3.0 Bus
USB Device: Internal Memory Card Reader
USB Device: Bluetooth USB Host Controller
Thunderbolt Bus: MacBook Pro, Apple Inc., 27.1


On 15 Feb 2019, at 23:40, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:

I will try not using full screen - but I guess it still stands that I’m doing the same sort of things I did with 6 (where I did use full screen and an earlier iceberg - and don’t recall the same level of instability).

Again - I’m still a fan, and want to forge forward - but I think we need to be careful. And I fully accept that - careful means all of us doing more testing and fixing more things ourselves. It’s just the vm stuff and lower level iceberg are that much more difficult for more casual users to grapple with (although I’m always impressed how far you can go)

Tim



Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Feb 2019, at 22:32, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

Depends on what you are doing, I guess.

I am using the same P7 32bits image on linux since June 2018, but I am
doing bare bone smalltalk, and I don't use iceberg. It could be the
source of your problem as it is still new, or it could be the 64bits
image/vm. You could give a try for the 32bits version for a few days..

Le 15/02/2019 à 12:11, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
I’m not sure if this is born out by others - but I’m finding that Pharo 7 is a bit less stable than Pharo 6 - I’m seeing quite a few seg-faults where the vm dies and terminates - both when the image is left running for a while, but also in fresh images where I do an Iceberg load of my projects. I’ve also seen a lot of weird things like corrupted fonts and keyboard focus/cursor keys not working properly.

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu
HilaireFernandes
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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

HilaireFernandes
I can't tell, but in your initial email you mentionned using the 64bits
VM, so the image is 64bits too.

So if you are using 32bits, you can try 64bitsVM https://get.pharo.org/64/

Le 16/02/2019 à 12:01, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
> As mentioned, I’m on OSX HighSierra I get a zero conf image (which I
> believe is the 32 bit version?)
>
--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu



http://drgeo.eu
Tim Mackinnon
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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

Tim Mackinnon
I’ve actually being using both - but 32bit has generally been considered the older more stable cousin (until Pharo 6 - where it was felt that 64bit was now just as stable).

I only mentioned it - because the zeroconf example that has crashed a few of my several times - was 32 bit (but I have also had 64 bit crash too. Probably a good experiment to try zeroconf with the 64bit variation and load my baseline as well).

I just think we might have an easily reproducable (and small) example that shows this issue that many have experienced a bit more randomly.

Tim

> On 16 Feb 2019, at 11:17, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I can't tell, but in your initial email you mentionned using the 64bits
> VM, so the image is 64bits too.
>
> So if you are using 32bits, you can try 64bitsVM https://get.pharo.org/64/
>
> Le 16/02/2019 à 12:01, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
>> As mentioned, I’m on OSX HighSierra I get a zero conf image (which I
>> believe is the 32 bit version?)
>>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu
>
>
>


Ben Coman
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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

Ben Coman
I'm not on a Mac to test, but it might be worth browsing the top few of these..

cheers -ben

On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 at 20:10, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I’ve actually being using both - but 32bit has generally been considered the older more stable cousin (until Pharo 6 - where it was felt that 64bit was now just as stable).

I only mentioned it - because the zeroconf example that has crashed a few of my several times - was 32 bit (but I have also had 64 bit crash too. Probably a good experiment to try zeroconf with the 64bit variation and load my baseline as well).

I just think we might have an easily reproducable (and small) example that shows this issue that many have experienced a bit more randomly.
Tim Mackinnon
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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

Tim Mackinnon
Hmmm Ben - its interesting that other languages/environments show that same stack error - and they seem to hint at memory issues- although in our case I’m working with a simple Pharo image that has very little in it (I’ve had much larger ones in Pharo 6.x without issue).

Interestingly - since launching a zeroconf image and not going full screen - its been running now for 1.5 days without a crash (whereas previously around 24 hours or less it would crash).

Having said this - I’ve just started another clean zeroconf image (not full screen) and during the initial metecallo (iceberg) load - its seg faulted again - but this one I think is iceberg related as the crash.dmp looks a bit different, and I did notice that it was loading my baseline a bit slowly (and stifling with some of the dependencies, making me think that something timing related might be at issue).

Having said this - I’m still not having the smooth ride others are reporting - and 7 is still suspect to me.

I’m kind of suprised this isn’t getting much traction from the core team - and I wonder if I should post this on the dev list instead?

Tim

On 16 Feb 2019, at 16:27, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm not on a Mac to test, but it might be worth browsing the top few of these..

cheers -ben

On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 at 20:10, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I’ve actually being using both - but 32bit has generally been considered the older more stable cousin (until Pharo 6 - where it was felt that 64bit was now just as stable).

I only mentioned it - because the zeroconf example that has crashed a few of my several times - was 32 bit (but I have also had 64 bit crash too. Probably a good experiment to try zeroconf with the 64bit variation and load my baseline as well).

I just think we might have an easily reproducable (and small) example that shows this issue that many have experienced a bit more randomly.
HilaireFernandes
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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

HilaireFernandes
Le 18/02/2019 à 02:00, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
>
> Having said this - I’m still not having the smooth ride others are
> reporting - and 7 is still suspect to me.

Indeed, the Pharo stability (or any other software) depends on several
factors: in your case OSX, fullscreen, P7 image and VM, plugin. Also
likely, not many of us are using Pharo fullscreen

>
> I’m kind of suprised this isn’t getting much traction from the core
> team - and I wonder if I should post this on the dev list instead?
>
Reporting these kind of issues here seems to me as the right place. The
dev list is dedicated to exchange related to the development of Pharo.

As your issue is likely related to the VM, you could report it to the VM
list, there http://forum.world.st/Squeak-VM-f104410.html?

You may have some additional clues. While it is annoying to be under
such circumstance when you just want to work on your project (been there
many times), it could be a valuable contribution, eventually with self
knowledge amplification outcome.

Hilaire

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu



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Re: Stability of Pharo 7 vs 6?

Tim Mackinnon
Just as a follow up to this - since not running fullscreen (as in not click on the green expand button in OSX) and having saved my image once - the stability seems to be much better. I’ve had an image running in the background for over a week now with no issue (whereas before it crashed in less than 24 hours)

So I guess I should try another experiment with fullscreen but a saved image (my hypothesis is that its the initial saving that really makes the difference).

Tim

> On 18 Feb 2019, at 08:29, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Le 18/02/2019 à 02:00, Tim Mackinnon a écrit :
>>
>> Having said this - I’m still not having the smooth ride others are
>> reporting - and 7 is still suspect to me.
>
> Indeed, the Pharo stability (or any other software) depends on several
> factors: in your case OSX, fullscreen, P7 image and VM, plugin. Also
> likely, not many of us are using Pharo fullscreen
>
>>
>> I’m kind of suprised this isn’t getting much traction from the core
>> team - and I wonder if I should post this on the dev list instead?
>>
> Reporting these kind of issues here seems to me as the right place. The
> dev list is dedicated to exchange related to the development of Pharo.
>
> As your issue is likely related to the VM, you could report it to the VM
> list, there http://forum.world.st/Squeak-VM-f104410.html?
>
> You may have some additional clues. While it is annoying to be under
> such circumstance when you just want to work on your project (been there
> many times), it could be a valuable contribution, eventually with self
> knowledge amplification outcome.
>
> Hilaire
>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu
>
>
>


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