Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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Starting out: db and gui recommendation
 
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I am a Java & .Net application programmer who has flirted with Smalltalk for a long time without doing the "deep dive" to really understand it. Pharo and Seaside are making me think that everything is coming together now for another try. That and some micro-ISV ambitions to give me a real reason to write some code outside of work.
For my type of project I really need a db package and a gui package. That leads to the questions: 1. Right now, is SqeakDBX my best choice for a db interface? Sqlite is my db of choice for the project I have in mind. 2. For the UI, I've been reading about the choices and I'm having a hard time finding a currently supported project. Do I go with polymorph by default? For the UI, what about "self-hosting" a Seaside instance and doing the UI in the browser? Ie, the app starts a Seaside server and opens a browser window pointed at the apps main window (home page). Can that be done? Is it a good idea? I hope you can give me some direction. I like the direction of Pharo and Seaside is just plain cool. I want to do this to get my head outside the coding box I'm kind of stuck in. And have some fun. Thanks for any help, Rick _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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Rick,
I recommend
the red pill. FWIW, I am using ODBC with reasonably good results, but need
to give SquakDBX a try. There are also some native interfaces lurking
around, and they might be worth a look.
Polymorph is
probably a good choice for a GUI. See TEasilyThemed (a trait used in
IIRC ComposableMorph and StandardWindow). There is room for improvement,
but it is remarkably powerful once you dig into it.
A local
browser accessing Seaside is an option. Some have suggested that as an
ideal GUI framework, which, well,..., let's say that I disagree - that is not to
say that you should not use it. We need a good GUI framework, and
Polymorph is leading the pack right now.
Bill
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rick Morrison Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:31 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Pharo-project] Starting out: db and gui recommendation For my type of project I really need a db package and a gui package. That leads to the questions: 1. Right now, is SqeakDBX my best choice for a db interface? Sqlite is my db of choice for the project I have in mind. 2. For the UI, I've been reading about the choices and I'm having a hard time finding a currently supported project. Do I go with polymorph by default? For the UI, what about "self-hosting" a Seaside instance and doing the UI in the browser? Ie, the app starts a Seaside server and opens a browser window pointed at the apps main window (home page). Can that be done? Is it a good idea? I hope you can give me some direction. I like the direction of Pharo and Seaside is just plain cool. I want to do this to get my head outside the coding box I'm kind of stuck in. And have some fun. Thanks for any help, Rick _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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In reply to this post by Rick Morrison-2
2009/10/22 Rick Morrison <[hidden email]> I am a Java & .Net application programmer who has flirted with Smalltalk for a long time without doing the "deep dive" to really understand it. Pharo and Seaside are making me think that everything is coming together now for another try. That and some micro-ISV ambitions to give me a real reason to write some code outside of work. Welcome!!! I hope you enjoy this wonderful world ;) For my type of project I really need a db package and a gui package. That leads to the questions: Of course!!! hahahahaha (I am one of the SqueakDBX authors). But it is a joke. There are several persitence alternatives. You can see this link: http://www.seaside.st/documentation/persistence There others nice solutions like Magma, CouchDB and TokyoTyrant, etc. The good thing is that you have several approaches. There must be one that fits better your needs. BTW, SqueakDBX works perfect with Sqlite3 in Linux, Mac and Windows. Which OS do you want to use? You can even create (I can help you if you want) a seaside one-click with the Sqlite3 and OpenDBX dlls. So, this type of app is very "portable": just unzip and double click :) For more details about SqueakDBX you can see http://www.squeakdbx.org/ 2. For the UI, I've been reading about the choices and I'm having a hard time finding a currently supported project. Do I go with polymorph by default? Yes, I saw a lot of people doing this. They have a one click seaside image where you just do a double click and then open the browser with localhost And as I told you, you can have sqlite3 inside that zip. On there other hand, there is a very interesting project that let you build "heavy client apps" with Polymorph using a palette and drag and drop. You can see a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHbc1t83fEI I hope you can give me some direction. I like the direction of Pharo and Seaside is just plain cool. I want to do this to get my head outside the coding box I'm kind of stuck in. And have some fun. There are 2 new books if you want: one for seaside and one for pharo: - http://www.pharobyexample.org/ - http://book.seaside.st/book Thanks for any help, You are wolcome! Rick _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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In reply to this post by Rick Morrison-2
Hi rick
welcome! > I am a Java & .Net application programmer who has flirted with > Smalltalk for a long time without doing the "deep dive" to really > understand it. Pharo and Seaside are making me think that > everything is coming together now for another try. That and some > micro-ISV ambitions to give me a real reason to write some code > outside of work. > > For my type of project I really need a db package and a gui > package. That leads to the questions: > 1. Right now, is SqeakDBX my best choice for a db interface? Sqlite > is my db of choice for the project I have in mind. > 2. For the UI, I've been reading about the choices and I'm having a > hard time finding a currently supported project. Do I go with > polymorph by default? If you need a desktop app yes. Else why not seaside directly? > For the UI, what about "self-hosting" a Seaside instance and doing > the UI in the browser? Ie, the app starts a Seaside server and > opens a browser window pointed at the apps main window (home page). > Can that be done? Is it a good idea? Yes! > I hope you can give me some direction. I like the direction of > Pharo and Seaside is just plain cool. I want to do this to get my > head outside the coding box I'm kind of stuck in. And have some fun. We want the same. :) Do not hesitate to kick our asses. The Smalltalk community got trapped into the "we invented the mouse" syndrome and we should really move again. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
On Oct 23, 2009, at 6:08 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > 2009/10/22 Rick Morrison <[hidden email]> > I am a Java & .Net application programmer who has flirted with > Smalltalk for a long time without doing the "deep dive" to really > understand it. Pharo and Seaside are making me think that > everything is coming together now for another try. That and some > micro-ISV ambitions to give me a real reason to write some code > outside of work. > > > Welcome!!! I hope you enjoy this wonderful world ;) > > For my type of project I really need a db package and a gui > package. That leads to the questions: > 1. Right now, is SqeakDBX my best choice for a db interface? Sqlite > is my db of choice for the project I have in mind. > > Of course!!! hahahahaha (I am one of the SqueakDBX authors). But > it is a joke. There are several persitence alternatives. You can see > this link: > http://www.seaside.st/documentation/persistence > There others nice solutions like Magma, CouchDB and TokyoTyrant, > etc. The good thing is that you have several approaches. There must > be one that fits better your needs. > BTW, SqueakDBX works perfect with Sqlite3 in Linux, Mac and Windows. > Which OS do you want to use? You can even create (I can help you if > you want) a seaside one-click with the Sqlite3 and OpenDBX dlls. So, > this type of app is very "portable": just unzip and double click :) mariano it would be nice if you could start to write something on it. May be we could turn that into a chapter for the pharo v 2 book? > For more details about SqueakDBX you can see http://www.squeakdbx.org/ > > 2. For the UI, I've been reading about the choices and I'm having a > hard time finding a currently supported project. Do I go with > polymorph by default? > > For the UI, what about "self-hosting" a Seaside instance and doing > the UI in the browser? Ie, the app starts a Seaside server and > opens a browser window pointed at the apps main window (home page). > Can that be done? Is it a good idea? > > > Yes, I saw a lot of people doing this. They have a one click seaside > image where you just do a double click and then open the browser > with localhost > And as I told you, you can have sqlite3 inside that zip. > On there other hand, there is a very interesting project that let > you build "heavy client apps" with Polymorph using a palette and > drag and drop. You can see a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHbc1t83fEI > > I hope you can give me some direction. I like the direction of > Pharo and Seaside is just plain cool. I want to do this to get my > head outside the coding box I'm kind of stuck in. And have some fun. > > > There are 2 new books if you want: one for seaside and one for pharo: > > - http://www.pharobyexample.org/ > - http://book.seaside.st/book > > > Thanks for any help, > > You are wolcome! > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
Stef, Far be it from me to kick you anywhere, but IMHO a local Seaside server is a very nice OPTION to have; I strongly disagree with those who have suggested the Polymorph, host widgets, etc. are a waste of time by comparison. We need both. One niche where local-only Seaside is a great idea is to provide a configuration GUI for a service. Bill -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stéphane Ducasse Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:41 AM To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Starting out: db and gui recommendation Hi rick welcome! > I am a Java & .Net application programmer who has flirted with > Smalltalk for a long time without doing the "deep dive" to really > understand it. Pharo and Seaside are making me think that everything > is coming together now for another try. That and some micro-ISV > ambitions to give me a real reason to write some code outside of work. > > For my type of project I really need a db package and a gui package. > That leads to the questions: > 1. Right now, is SqeakDBX my best choice for a db interface? Sqlite > is my db of choice for the project I have in mind. > 2. For the UI, I've been reading about the choices and I'm having a > hard time finding a currently supported project. Do I go with > polymorph by default? If you need a desktop app yes. Else why not seaside directly? > For the UI, what about "self-hosting" a Seaside instance and doing the > UI in the browser? Ie, the app starts a Seaside server and > opens a browser window pointed at the apps main window (home page). > Can that be done? Is it a good idea? Yes! > I hope you can give me some direction. I like the direction of Pharo > and Seaside is just plain cool. I want to do this to get my head > outside the coding box I'm kind of stuck in. And have some fun. We want the same. :) Do not hesitate to kick our asses. The Smalltalk community got trapped into the "we invented the mouse" syndrome and we should really move again. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes! I have no problem to do it. Right now, I will translate one of the Pharo By Example (1) chapters to Spanish. So, I will be familiar PBE and the .tex of it. Our website has a lot of documentation, so, I think I can get stuff from there as an start. What do you think? who is the one that is leading PBE2 ? _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
On 2009-10-23 02:08:20 -0200, Mariano Martinez Peck
<[hidden email]> said: > > > 2009/10/22 Rick Morrison <[hidden email]> > >> I am a Java & .Net application programmer who has flirted with Smalltalk >> for a long time without doing the "deep dive" to really understand it. >> Pharo and Seaside are making me think that everything is coming together now >> for another try. That and some micro-ISV ambitions to give me a real reason >> to write some code outside of work. >> >> > Welcome!!! I hope you enjoy this wonderful world ;) > > >> For my type of project I really need a db package and a gui package. That >> leads to the questions: >> 1. Right now, is SqeakDBX my best choice for a db interface? Sqlite is my >> db of choice for the project I have in mind. >> > > Of course!!! hahahahaha (I am one of the SqueakDBX authors). But it is a > joke. There are several persitence alternatives. You can see this link: > http://www.seaside.st/documentation/persistence > There others nice solutions like Magma, CouchDB and TokyoTyrant, etc. The > good thing is that you have several approaches. There must be one that fits > better your needs. > BTW, SqueakDBX works perfect with Sqlite3 in Linux, Mac and Windows. Which > OS do you want to use? You can even create (I can help you if you want) a > seaside one-click with the Sqlite3 and OpenDBX dlls. So, this type of app is > very "portable": just unzip and double click :) > For more details about SqueakDBX you can see http://www.squeakdbx.org/ > > 2. For the UI, I've been reading about the choices and I'm having a hard >> time finding a currently supported project. Do I go with polymorph by >> default? >> >> For the UI, what about "self-hosting" a Seaside instance and doing the UI >> in the browser? Ie, the app starts a Seaside server and opens a browser >> window pointed at the apps main window (home page). Can that be done? Is >> it a good idea? >> >> > Yes, I saw a lot of people doing this. They have a one click seaside image > where you just do a double click and then open the browser with localhost > And as I told you, you can have sqlite3 inside that zip. > On there other hand, there is a very interesting project that let you build > "heavy client apps" with Polymorph using a palette and drag and drop. You > can see a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHbc1t83fEI I'm also using xulrunner (runing seaside apps) with very good results, and that gives me better control of "window close" event... and the app looks much more "native" that unsing a regular browser. Cheers, Esteban _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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In reply to this post by Rick Morrison-2
Thanks for all the responses. They have caused me to rethink a couple of things already.
Sqlite is a holdover from thinking about a .Net version of this app. I just need to persist my data. Something like Magma should be fine. I had been looking at Sqlite as an embedded database since I didn't need (or don't want to make the user manage) a database server. I ran the UIThemes examples and I like the look. But I might just use the browser and a local Seaside server to give me a chance to learn more about web programming. It doesn't have to be a desktop app but my wife, who is has a problem to be solved and is my customer, says she would not put the data on the web. I will consider if some of the less personal data could be web-based (and then more universally accessible) and some data restricted to local storage. A hybrid if you will. I have to admit that I stretched a little bit when I said "I am a Java & .Net application programmer", "was" is almost more correct now. Like so many, I do more project management now and really miss the coding. I've been reading "The Passionate Programmer" and I'm following his advice to learn something very different from what I know now. Thanks again. Now off to review some of the things you have brought to my attention. Rick On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Rick Morrison <[hidden email]> wrote: I am a Java & .Net application programmer who has flirted with Smalltalk for a long time without doing the Thanks for any help, _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck
>
> mariano > it would be nice if you could start to write something on it. > May be we could turn that into a chapter for the pharo v 2 book? > > Yes! I have no problem to do it. Right now, I will translate one of > the Pharo By Example (1) chapters to Spanish. So, I will be familiar > PBE and the .tex of it. > > Our website has a lot of documentation, so, I think I can get stuff > from there as an start. > > What do you think? go write first and after we discuss :) it would be nice to have a little story: ok dear reader let us imagine that you collect books and you want to store them in a DB... > who is the one that is leading PBE2 ? oscar and me :) Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Re: Starting out: db and gui recommendation
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In reply to this post by Rick Morrison-2
> Thanks for all the responses. They have caused me to rethink a
> couple of things already. > > Sqlite is a holdover from thinking about a .Net version of this > app. I just need to persist my data. Something like Magma should be > fine. I had been looking at Sqlite as an embedded database since I > didn't need (or don't want to make the user manage) a database server. > > I ran the UIThemes examples and I like the look. But I might just > use the browser and a local Seaside server to give me a chance to > learn more about web programming. It doesn't have to be a desktop > app but my wife, who is has a problem to be solved and is my > customer, says she would not put the data on the web. I will > consider if some of the less personal data could be web-based (and > then more universally accessible) and some data restricted to local > storage. A hybrid if you will. but you do not have to put them on the web for using seaside :) What I do not for my too large comix collection is that I save the information in xml files on my hardisc and the system automatically load the latest files and save a new one. You can attach action to classes when the system starts or quits. > I have to admit that I stretched a little bit when I said "I am a > Java & .Net application programmer", "was" is almost more correct > now. Like so many, I do more project management now and really miss > the coding. I've been reading "The Passionate Programmer" and I'm > following his advice to learn something very different from what I > know now. > > Thanks again. Now off to review some of the things you have brought > to my attention. > > Rick > > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Rick Morrison <[hidden email]> wrote: > I am a Java & .Net application programmer who has flirted with > Smalltalk for a long time without doing the > > Thanks for any help, > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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