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State of Pharo in comparison with the "Pharo vision" document

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Julien Delplanque

State of Pharo in comparison with the "Pharo vision" document

Hello everyone,

For a university project I need to write a little about Pharo.
I found the "Pharo vision" document [1] and I am curious about
the actual state of Pharo in comparison with it.

I have seen some things on the mailing list but I would like some
help to gather the state of each goal described in "Pharo vision"
version 1.0.

I made a list with the goals and wrote some of the (little) knowledge I
have about some elements (I also joined it to this mail in case it is not
readable):

Goals -> State
-------------------
1. Creation of the Pharo Consortium -> Created
2. Small kernel & validated packages -> ?
3. A Robust and Extensible System Events -> ?
4. Rewrite of Filesystem/Streams -> ?/XStream?
5. Announcements and Ephemerons -> ?
6. UI Canvas for Zoomable Interfaces -> Bloc?
7. Bootstrap of the Core -> ?
8. Fully parametrized compiler tool chain -> ?
9. Packages as real objects -> ?
10. Package Meta-Data -> PackageManifest?
11. Less Model Clutter and Duplication -> ?
12. Building and Reusing UI Logic -> Spec?
13. New Network Layer -> ?
14. Serializers -> Fuel
15. SystemChangeNotifier replacement -> ?
16. Cleaning Morphic -> Still valid? (asking because of Bloc existance)
17. Everybody should be able to compile VMs -> ?
18. VMs identification and regression testing -> ?
19. One Unified FFI framework -> Created and still being enhanced
20. 64 Bits -> I saw the screenshot on Twitter but what is the state now?
21. New Object Formats -> ?

If some of you know the state of one or many of these project and have the
time to give me some information about it/them, I would be really grateful.

Thanks in advance,

Julien

Links:
[1]: https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf

goals.txt (1K) Download Attachment

CyrilFerlicot

Re: State of Pharo in comparison with the "Pharo vision" document

Le 19/07/2016 à 23:59, Julien Delplanque a écrit :

Hi,

I added what I know after some `>>`

> Goals -> State
> -------------------
> 1. Creation of the Pharo Consortium -> Created
> 2. Small kernel & validated packages -> >>In progress (Bootstrap + Cargo)
> 3. A Robust and Extensible System Events -> ?
> 4. Rewrite of Filesystem/Streams -> ?/XStream? -> >>In progress, there was the introduction of File IIRC
> 5. Announcements and Ephemerons -> >> Will be in Pharo 6
> 6. UI Canvas for Zoomable Interfaces -> Bloc? >>I think yes
> 7. Bootstrap of the Core -> >>Should be for Pharo 6. The Bootstrap build pass on Jenkins but still need some love from Christophe, Guillermo and Pavel
> 8. Fully parametrized compiler tool chain -> >>I think I heard that a lot of progress have been made in this area but I don't have any detail and I am not sure.
> 9. Packages as real objects -> >>In progress. now package are objects but there will be improvements with Cargo
> 10. Package Meta-Data -> >>PackageManifest
> 11. Less Model Clutter and Duplication -> ?
> 12. Building and Reusing UI Logic -> >>Spec
> 13. New Network Layer -> >> I think this is Zinc but it still need some work
> 14. Serializers -> Fuel >> + STON
> 15. SystemChangeNotifier replacement -> ?
> 16. Cleaning Morphic -> Still valid? (asking because of Bloc existance)
> 17. Everybody should be able to compile VMs -> ?
> 18. VMs identification and regression testing -> ?
> 19. One Unified FFI framework -> Created and still being enhanced
> 20. 64 Bits -> Most of the plugins works on OSX/Unix. Esteban told that it would need around a month to be usable after his holydays.
> 21. New Object Formats -> >>STON ?
>

--
Cyril Ferlicot

http://www.synectique.eu

165 Avenue Bretagne
Lille 59000 France

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Ben Coman

Re: State of Pharo in comparison with the "Pharo vision" document

In reply to this post by Julien Delplanque

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 5:59 AM, Julien Delplanque <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> For a university project I need to write a little about Pharo.
> I found the "Pharo vision" document [1] and I am curious about
> the actual state of Pharo in comparison with it.
>
> I have seen some things on the mailing list but I would like some
> help to gather the state of each goal described in "Pharo vision"
> version 1.0.
>
> I made a list with the goals and wrote some of the (little) knowledge I
> have about some elements (I also joined it to this mail in case it is not
> readable):
>
> Goals -> State
> -------------------
> 1. Creation of the Pharo Consortium -> Created
> 2. Small kernel & validated packages -> ?
> 3. A Robust and Extensible System Events -> ?
> 4. Rewrite of Filesystem/Streams -> ?/XStream?
> 5. Announcements and Ephemerons -> ?
> 6. UI Canvas for Zoomable Interfaces -> Bloc?
> 7. Bootstrap of the Core -> ?
> 8. Fully parametrized compiler tool chain -> ?
> 9. Packages as real objects -> ?
> 10. Package Meta-Data -> PackageManifest?
> 11. Less Model Clutter and Duplication -> ?
> 12. Building and Reusing UI Logic -> Spec?
> 13. New Network Layer -> ?
> 14. Serializers -> Fuel
> 15. SystemChangeNotifier replacement -> ?
> 16. Cleaning Morphic -> Still valid? (asking because of Bloc existance)
> 17. Everybody should be able to compile VMs -> ?
> 18. VMs identification and regression testing -> ?
> 19. One Unified FFI framework -> Created and still being enhanced
> 20. 64 Bits -> I saw the screenshot on Twitter but what is the state now?
> 21. New Object Formats -> ?
>
> If some of you know the state of one or many of these project and have the
> time to give me some information about it/them, I would be really grateful.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Julien
>
> Links:
> [1]: https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf

You should be able to get some answers from...
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-changelogs
Can you fill in yourself what answers you can extract from that - for
checking, and letting people focus on where there remain gaps in your
questions.

cheers -ben

Guillermo Polito

Re: State of Pharo in comparison with the "Pharo vision" document

Well maybe this requires an email on its own, but I can give some
information on the following points:

1) Bootstrap, Small kernel, and others:
- Small kernel & validated packages
- Bootstrap of the Core
- 64 Bits

Well, it's already some time I'm working on this so here there is an
executive summary:
* We already know how to and can bootstrap pharo images (that is,
create a new image from scratch) since some time.
* Actually, we have CI jobs dedicated to this since Pharo5. The
latest versions are in here:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%20bootstrap/job/60-Bootstrap-32bit-Metacello/
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%20bootstrap/job/60-Bootstrap-32bit-Minimal/
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%20bootstrap/job/60-Bootstrap-64bit-Metacello/
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%20bootstrap/job/60-Bootstrap-64bit-Minimal/

You'll see there we are building two different flavors of bootstrap:
A minimal bootstrap that does not include Compression nor Monticello,
and the default one (that is wrongly entitled Metacello in the CI job)
that contains Minimal + Compression + Monticello. These are built in two
versions: 32 and 64 bit images, for the respective VMs.

And they work. You can download them and play around. You have the
eval command line handler and the image is capable of compiling code.

***Disclaimer***: The image works but (a) it's not fully initialized,
and (b) it contains a lot of dead code. So, (a) be careful because not
everything may work correctly on that image, and (b) happens because it
is complicated to remodularize some parts of Pharo => this is what
actually takes most of the time from us.

* We are working with Pavel and Christophe a lot on it nowadays and
our short-term priorities are:
- ensure the image initialization
- test the bootstrap health (by running lint rulz and unit tests)
- be able to reload the entire system on top of the bootstrap

AND THIS IS HUGE. This means we need to understand, refactor,
express and maintain package dependencies for **every** Pharo package.

2) Announcements and Ephemerons
I was working on this lately. Ephemerons are already in the Image but
not active. VM support seems to be ready (out of my tests). The roadmap
for this is something like this:
- 1. Bless the latest VM that has the Ephemeron fixes as stable
(Esteban told me he was going to do it but I do not know the state of this).
- 2. Activate Ephemerons on the image side
- 3. Replace the WeakRegistry by Ephemeron registries. => Here we
need to code.

Then the other interesting question is if Ephemerons are backported
or not to Pharo5. If so, we need to plan how to do it.

Then I could also put some words on the other items but I have to go to
work now ^^.

Cheers,
Guille

-------- Original Message --------

> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 5:59 AM, Julien Delplanque <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> For a university project I need to write a little about Pharo.
>> I found the "Pharo vision" document [1] and I am curious about
>> the actual state of Pharo in comparison with it.
>>
>> I have seen some things on the mailing list but I would like some
>> help to gather the state of each goal described in "Pharo vision"
>> version 1.0.
>>
>> I made a list with the goals and wrote some of the (little) knowledge I
>> have about some elements (I also joined it to this mail in case it is not
>> readable):
>>
>> Goals -> State
>> -------------------
>> 1. Creation of the Pharo Consortium -> Created
>> 2. Small kernel & validated packages -> ?
>> 3. A Robust and Extensible System Events -> ?
>> 4. Rewrite of Filesystem/Streams -> ?/XStream?
>> 5. Announcements and Ephemerons -> ?
>> 6. UI Canvas for Zoomable Interfaces -> Bloc?
>> 7. Bootstrap of the Core -> ?
>> 8. Fully parametrized compiler tool chain -> ?
>> 9. Packages as real objects -> ?
>> 10. Package Meta-Data -> PackageManifest?
>> 11. Less Model Clutter and Duplication -> ?
>> 12. Building and Reusing UI Logic -> Spec?
>> 13. New Network Layer -> ?
>> 14. Serializers -> Fuel
>> 15. SystemChangeNotifier replacement -> ?
>> 16. Cleaning Morphic -> Still valid? (asking because of Bloc existance)
>> 17. Everybody should be able to compile VMs -> ?
>> 18. VMs identification and regression testing -> ?
>> 19. One Unified FFI framework -> Created and still being enhanced
>> 20. 64 Bits -> I saw the screenshot on Twitter but what is the state now?
>> 21. New Object Formats -> ?
>>
>> If some of you know the state of one or many of these project and have the
>> time to give me some information about it/them, I would be really grateful.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Julien
>>
>> Links:
>> [1]: https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf
> You should be able to get some answers from...
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-changelogs
> Can you fill in yourself what answers you can extract from that - for
> checking, and letting people focus on where there remain gaps in your
> questions.
>
> cheers -ben
>
>
>

EstebanLM

Re: State of Pharo in comparison with the "Pharo vision" document

On 20 Jul 2016, at 10:38, Guille Polito <[hidden email]> wrote:

- 1. Bless the latest VM that has the Ephemeron fixes as stable (Esteban told me he was going to do it but I do not know the state of this).

done, two or three weeks ago :P

EstebanLM

Re: State of Pharo in comparison with the "Pharo vision" document

In reply to this post by CyrilFerlicot

Hi, this is my following of vision document:

1. Creation of the Pharo Consortium -> Created

DONE

2. Small kernel & validated packages -> >>In progress (Bootstrap + Cargo)

In progress

3. A Robust and Extensible System Events -> ?

DONE. Announcements (but now we have “announcements plague” so we need to iterate/clean a bit here)

4. Rewrite of Filesystem/Streams -> ?/XStream? -> >>In progress, there was the introduction of File IIRC

FileSystem DONE

Streams NOT DONE

5. Announcements and Ephemerons -> >> Will be in Pharo 6

DONE (in Pharo 6)

6. UI Canvas for Zoomable Interfaces -> Bloc? >>I think yes

In progress: Will be Block, yes

7. Bootstrap of the Core -> >>Should be for Pharo 6. The Bootstrap build pass on Jenkins but still need some love from Christophe, Guillermo and Pavel

In progress.

8. Fully parametrized compiler tool chain -> >>I think I heard that a lot of progress have been made in this area but I don't have any detail and I am not sure.

DONE (OpalCompiler, etc.)

9. Packages as real objects -> >>In progress. now package are objects but there will be improvements with Cargo

DONE. Cargo is another thing :)

10. Package Meta-Data -> >>PackageManifest

DONE (but still tools can be built on it)

11. Less Model Clutter and Duplication -> ?

Permanent ongoing process.

12. Building and Reusing UI Logic -> >>Spec

DONE (Spec), but allows enhancements (as everything, I think)

13. New Network Layer -> >> I think this is Zinc but it still need some work

In progress (Zinc is part, but some low-level stuff can be enhanced)

14. Serializers -> Fuel >> + STON

DONE (Fuel, STON)

15. SystemChangeNotifier replacement -> ?

DONE (SystemAnnouncer)

16. Cleaning Morphic -> Still valid? (asking because of Bloc existance)

Permanent ongoing progress (until Bloc arrives, it needs to be done)

17. Everybody should be able to compile VMs -> ?

DONE (CMakeMaker, etc.)

18. VMs identification and regression testing -> ?

DONE

19. One Unified FFI framework -> Created and still being enhanced

DONE (but yes, a v2.0 will be needed)

20. 64 Bits -> Most of the plugins works on OSX/Unix. Esteban told that it would need around a month to be usable after his holydays.

In progress

21. New Object Formats -> >>STON ?

In progress

Now, in fact the Pharo Vision document became old… we made a lot more stuff than declared there and we are going in more exciting directions now (as shown with the remote debugging). Probably we should work in a "Pharo Vision Updated” document, but as always, it takes time, effort, etc….

cheers,

Esteban

Ben Coman

Re: State of Pharo in comparison with the "Pharo vision" document

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 4:59 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

21. New Object Formats
In progress

This is Spur?

cheers -ben

Julien Delplanque

Re: State of Pharo in comparison with the "Pharo vision" document

In reply to this post by Ben Coman

Thanks for all your answer I will use the hints you gave me and
eventually come back to you if I need more information. :-)

Regards,

Julien

On 20/07/16 01:44, Ben Coman wrote: