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Status of Tanker?

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hernanmd

Status of Tanker?

Hello,

What is the status of Tanker?

I tried to loadDevelopment in Pharo 4 but there are references to PackageInfo, and tests fails.

Cheers,

Hernán

tinchodias

Re: Status of Tanker?

Hello Hernán,

It's outdated, we were not taking care of Tanker. I've just updated some urls in the doc, and the Pharo versions in the Jenkins job (it was being run in 2.0 and 3.0!).

BTW, have you loaded it from this repo?

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Tanker

(we moved from Mariano's repo, but the old one wasn't deleted).

Cheers,

Martín

El jue., 20 ago. 2015 a las 8:24, Hernán Morales Durand (<[hidden email]>) escribió:

Hello,

What is the status of Tanker?
I tried to loadDevelopment in Pharo 4 but there are references to PackageInfo, and tests fails.
Cheers,

Hernán

hernanmd

Re: Status of Tanker?

Hello Martín

2015-08-20 5:31 GMT-03:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:

Hello Hernán,

It's outdated, we were not taking care of Tanker. I've just updated some urls in the doc, and the Pharo versions in the Jenkins job (it was being run in 2.0 and 3.0!).

BTW, have you loaded it from this repo?

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Tanker

Yes.

I checked the code and PackageInfo usage was intentional (#behaviorsLocalToPackageInfoNamed: , #extensionMethodsToPackageInfoNamed: , etc) , but the tests are generating AnObsoleteClassForTestToBeDeleted... and from there I don't know.

Is just that PackageInfo stuff preventing to use Tanker?

Could you comment how far is Tanker from being stable or usable?

Hernán

(we moved from Mariano's repo, but the old one wasn't deleted).

Cheers,
Martín

El jue., 20 ago. 2015 a las 8:24, Hernán Morales Durand (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hello,

What is the status of Tanker?
I tried to loadDevelopment in Pharo 4 but there are references to PackageInfo, and tests fails.
Cheers,

Hernán

TankerPackagesSupport-HernanMoralesDurand.11.mcz (6K) Download Attachment

Max Leske

Re: Status of Tanker?

On 20 Aug 2015, at 19:38, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Martín

2015-08-20 5:31 GMT-03:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:
Hello Hernán,

It's outdated, we were not taking care of Tanker. I've just updated some urls in the doc, and the Pharo versions in the Jenkins job (it was being run in 2.0 and 3.0!).

BTW, have you loaded it from this repo?

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Tanker

Yes.

I checked the code and PackageInfo usage was intentional (#behaviorsLocalToPackageInfoNamed: , #extensionMethodsToPackageInfoNamed: , etc) , but the tests are generating AnObsoleteClassForTestToBeDeleted... and from there I don't know.

That’s something we’ve fixed in Fuel. It’s simply a side effect of the tests, not a functional problem.

Is just that PackageInfo stuff preventing to use Tanker?

I guess Tanker would need to be updated for the changes in CompiledMethod and possibly a couple of changes would be required to account for deprecation etc.

I’m not sure how much work it would take to use RPackage / Ring.

Could you comment how far is Tanker from being stable or usable?

I guess we could make it work within a couple of hours / days. So far there was simply no interest from anybody AFAIK.

What’s your use case exactly?

Cheers,

Max

Hernán

(we moved from Mariano's repo, but the old one wasn't deleted).

Cheers,
Martín

El jue., 20 ago. 2015 a las 8:24, Hernán Morales Durand (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hello,

What is the status of Tanker?
I tried to loadDevelopment in Pharo 4 but there are references to PackageInfo, and tests fails.
Cheers,

Hernán

<TankerPackagesSupport-HernanMoralesDurand.11.mcz>

hernanmd

Re: Status of Tanker?

Hello Max,

2015-08-20 15:15 GMT-03:00 Max Leske <[hidden email]>:

On 20 Aug 2015, at 19:38, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Martín

2015-08-20 5:31 GMT-03:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:
Hello Hernán,

It's outdated, we were not taking care of Tanker. I've just updated some urls in the doc, and the Pharo versions in the Jenkins job (it was being run in 2.0 and 3.0!).

BTW, have you loaded it from this repo?

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Tanker

Yes.

I checked the code and PackageInfo usage was intentional (#behaviorsLocalToPackageInfoNamed: , #extensionMethodsToPackageInfoNamed: , etc) , but the tests are generating AnObsoleteClassForTestToBeDeleted... and from there I don't know.

That’s something we’ve fixed in Fuel. It’s simply a side effect of the tests, not a functional problem.

Good :)

Is just that PackageInfo stuff preventing to use Tanker?

I guess Tanker would need to be updated for the changes in CompiledMethod and possibly a couple of changes would be required to account for deprecation etc.
I’m not sure how much work it would take to use RPackage / Ring.

I hope it is not too much work.

Could you comment how far is Tanker from being stable or usable?

I guess we could make it work within a couple of hours / days. So far there was simply no interest from anybody AFAIK.

What’s your use case exactly?

Building my PhyloclassTalk app loads > 60 packages and it is taking too much time. I read about loading Seaside in 10 sec. so I want that too :)

Another situation is when I show Pharo to solve "easy" tasks (CSV, PetitParser, etc) to people and it doesn't feel nice to wait loading, specially when Python takes 2 secs to install with pip, or they use IPython/anaconda which has everything preloaded.

Cheers,

Hernán

Cheers,
Max

Hernán

(we moved from Mariano's repo, but the old one wasn't deleted).

Cheers,
Martín

El jue., 20 ago. 2015 a las 8:24, Hernán Morales Durand (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hello,

What is the status of Tanker?
I tried to loadDevelopment in Pharo 4 but there are references to PackageInfo, and tests fails.
Cheers,

Hernán

<TankerPackagesSupport-HernanMoralesDurand.11.mcz>

Mariano Martinez Peck

Re: Status of Tanker?

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Max,

2015-08-20 15:15 GMT-03:00 Max Leske <[hidden email]>:

On 20 Aug 2015, at 19:38, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Martín

2015-08-20 5:31 GMT-03:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:
Hello Hernán,

It's outdated, we were not taking care of Tanker. I've just updated some urls in the doc, and the Pharo versions in the Jenkins job (it was being run in 2.0 and 3.0!).

BTW, have you loaded it from this repo?

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Tanker

Yes.

I checked the code and PackageInfo usage was intentional (#behaviorsLocalToPackageInfoNamed: , #extensionMethodsToPackageInfoNamed: , etc) , but the tests are generating AnObsoleteClassForTestToBeDeleted... and from there I don't know.

That’s something we’ve fixed in Fuel. It’s simply a side effect of the tests, not a functional problem.

Good :)

Is just that PackageInfo stuff preventing to use Tanker?

I guess Tanker would need to be updated for the changes in CompiledMethod and possibly a couple of changes would be required to account for deprecation etc.
I’m not sure how much work it would take to use RPackage / Ring.

I hope it is not too much work.

Could you comment how far is Tanker from being stable or usable?

I guess we could make it work within a couple of hours / days. So far there was simply no interest from anybody AFAIK.

What’s your use case exactly?

Building my PhyloclassTalk app loads > 60 packages and it is taking too much time. I read about loading Seaside in 10 sec. so I want that too :)

One of the problems that never got fixed in Tanker was that if the superclass of a class you are loading has changed instVars from where you have exported, then the compiled methods will be wrong and bytecodes will access a shifted instvar (this is one of the scenarios, but there are a couple). Of course, nice solutions could be developed to even avoid compilation (I remember Marcus telling us to get IR -- intermediate representation -- from compiled method, then change instVas, and get new compiled method. But... even without that, we still never developed the most basic solution which would detect such a case and do a normal compilation from source (source is ALSO serialized anyway). Until we develop that, I think it won't be stable.

Another situation is when I show Pharo to solve "easy" tasks (CSV, PetitParser, etc) to people and it doesn't feel nice to wait loading, specially when Python takes 2 secs to install with pip, or they use IPython/anaconda which has everything preloaded.

Cheers,

Hernán

Cheers,
Max

Hernán

(we moved from Mariano's repo, but the old one wasn't deleted).

Cheers,
Martín

El jue., 20 ago. 2015 a las 8:24, Hernán Morales Durand (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hello,

What is the status of Tanker?
I tried to loadDevelopment in Pharo 4 but there are references to PackageInfo, and tests fails.
Cheers,

Hernán

<TankerPackagesSupport-HernanMoralesDurand.11.mcz>

Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Max Leske

Re: Status of Tanker?

In reply to this post by hernanmd

On 20 Aug 2015, at 20:49, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Max,

2015-08-20 15:15 GMT-03:00 Max Leske <[hidden email]>:

On 20 Aug 2015, at 19:38, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Martín

2015-08-20 5:31 GMT-03:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:
Hello Hernán,

It's outdated, we were not taking care of Tanker. I've just updated some urls in the doc, and the Pharo versions in the Jenkins job (it was being run in 2.0 and 3.0!).

BTW, have you loaded it from this repo?

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Tanker

Yes.

I checked the code and PackageInfo usage was intentional (#behaviorsLocalToPackageInfoNamed: , #extensionMethodsToPackageInfoNamed: , etc) , but the tests are generating AnObsoleteClassForTestToBeDeleted... and from there I don't know.

That’s something we’ve fixed in Fuel. It’s simply a side effect of the tests, not a functional problem.

Good :)

Is just that PackageInfo stuff preventing to use Tanker?

I guess Tanker would need to be updated for the changes in CompiledMethod and possibly a couple of changes would be required to account for deprecation etc.
I’m not sure how much work it would take to use RPackage / Ring.

I hope it is not too much work.

Could you comment how far is Tanker from being stable or usable?

I guess we could make it work within a couple of hours / days. So far there was simply no interest from anybody AFAIK.

What’s your use case exactly?

Building my PhyloclassTalk app loads > 60 packages and it is taking too much time. I read about loading Seaside in 10 sec. so I want that too :)

Well yes but that’s only possible if you first export the code in the Tanker format. And you don’t want to do that for every new version (unless of course, Tanker were the default format…).

Another situation is when I show Pharo to solve "easy" tasks (CSV, PetitParser, etc) to people and it doesn't feel nice to wait loading, specially when Python takes 2 secs to install with pip, or they use IPython/anaconda which has everything preloaded.

I know what you mean. We have builds on our build server that take up to 30 minutes. I once thought to have multiple stages of builds to reduce build times but that wont work in this case of course.

Cheers,

Hernán

Cheers,
Max

Hernán

(we moved from Mariano's repo, but the old one wasn't deleted).

Cheers,
Martín

El jue., 20 ago. 2015 a las 8:24, Hernán Morales Durand (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hello,

What is the status of Tanker?
I tried to loadDevelopment in Pharo 4 but there are references to PackageInfo, and tests fails.
Cheers,

Hernán

<TankerPackagesSupport-HernanMoralesDurand.11.mcz>

tinchodias

Re: Status of Tanker?

Hernán,

thanks for the contribution, I copied it to the repository. I think you can commit without any special permission.

I took a look in the errors and I found that it uses SourceFilesArray API that we removed in Pharo 5.0... indeed, in Tanker we made strong assumptions about the changes files. I did a pass migrating code to current Pharo (50249).

Mariano: yes, we didn't implement recompilation when something changed in the format.

Max: I agree Tanker has to use RPackage instead of PackageInfo, but I'm not sure it needs to be moved to Ring.

Martín

El jue., 20 ago. 2015 a las 21:22, Max Leske (<[hidden email]>) escribió:

On 20 Aug 2015, at 20:49, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Max,

2015-08-20 15:15 GMT-03:00 Max Leske <[hidden email]>:

On 20 Aug 2015, at 19:38, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Martín

2015-08-20 5:31 GMT-03:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:
Hello Hernán,

It's outdated, we were not taking care of Tanker. I've just updated some urls in the doc, and the Pharo versions in the Jenkins job (it was being run in 2.0 and 3.0!).

BTW, have you loaded it from this repo?

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Tanker

Yes.

I checked the code and PackageInfo usage was intentional (#behaviorsLocalToPackageInfoNamed: , #extensionMethodsToPackageInfoNamed: , etc) , but the tests are generating AnObsoleteClassForTestToBeDeleted... and from there I don't know.

That’s something we’ve fixed in Fuel. It’s simply a side effect of the tests, not a functional problem.

Good :)

Is just that PackageInfo stuff preventing to use Tanker?

I guess Tanker would need to be updated for the changes in CompiledMethod and possibly a couple of changes would be required to account for deprecation etc.
I’m not sure how much work it would take to use RPackage / Ring.

I hope it is not too much work.

Could you comment how far is Tanker from being stable or usable?

I guess we could make it work within a couple of hours / days. So far there was simply no interest from anybody AFAIK.

What’s your use case exactly?

Building my PhyloclassTalk app loads > 60 packages and it is taking too much time. I read about loading Seaside in 10 sec. so I want that too :)

Well yes but that’s only possible if you first export the code in the Tanker format. And you don’t want to do that for every new version (unless of course, Tanker were the default format…).

Another situation is when I show Pharo to solve "easy" tasks (CSV, PetitParser, etc) to people and it doesn't feel nice to wait loading, specially when Python takes 2 secs to install with pip, or they use IPython/anaconda which has everything preloaded.

I know what you mean. We have builds on our build server that take up to 30 minutes. I once thought to have multiple stages of builds to reduce build times but that wont work in this case of course.

Cheers,

Hernán

Cheers,
Max

Hernán

(we moved from Mariano's repo, but the old one wasn't deleted).

Cheers,
Martín

El jue., 20 ago. 2015 a las 8:24, Hernán Morales Durand (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hello,

What is the status of Tanker?
I tried to loadDevelopment in Pharo 4 but there are references to PackageInfo, and tests fails.
Cheers,

Hernán

<TankerPackagesSupport-HernanMoralesDurand.11.mcz>

hernanmd

Re: Status of Tanker?

In reply to this post by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Mariano,

2015-08-20 15:54 GMT-03:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <[hidden email]>:

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Max,

2015-08-20 15:15 GMT-03:00 Max Leske <[hidden email]>:

On 20 Aug 2015, at 19:38, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Martín

2015-08-20 5:31 GMT-03:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:
Hello Hernán,

It's outdated, we were not taking care of Tanker. I've just updated some urls in the doc, and the Pharo versions in the Jenkins job (it was being run in 2.0 and 3.0!).

BTW, have you loaded it from this repo?

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Tanker

Yes.

I checked the code and PackageInfo usage was intentional (#behaviorsLocalToPackageInfoNamed: , #extensionMethodsToPackageInfoNamed: , etc) , but the tests are generating AnObsoleteClassForTestToBeDeleted... and from there I don't know.

That’s something we’ve fixed in Fuel. It’s simply a side effect of the tests, not a functional problem.

Good :)

Is just that PackageInfo stuff preventing to use Tanker?

I guess Tanker would need to be updated for the changes in CompiledMethod and possibly a couple of changes would be required to account for deprecation etc.
I’m not sure how much work it would take to use RPackage / Ring.

I hope it is not too much work.

Could you comment how far is Tanker from being stable or usable?

I guess we could make it work within a couple of hours / days. So far there was simply no interest from anybody AFAIK.

What’s your use case exactly?

Building my PhyloclassTalk app loads > 60 packages and it is taking too much time. I read about loading Seaside in 10 sec. so I want that too :)

One of the problems that never got fixed in Tanker was that if the superclass of a class you are loading has changed instVars from where you have exported, then the compiled methods will be wrong and bytecodes will access a shifted instvar (this is one of the scenarios, but there are a couple). Of course, nice solutions could be developed to even avoid compilation (I remember Marcus telling us to get IR -- intermediate representation -- from compiled method, then change instVas, and get new compiled method. But... even without that, we still never developed the most basic solution which would detect such a case and do a normal compilation from source (source is ALSO serialized anyway). Until we develop that, I think it won't be stable.

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

Hernán

Another situation is when I show Pharo to solve "easy" tasks (CSV, PetitParser, etc) to people and it doesn't feel nice to wait loading, specially when Python takes 2 secs to install with pip, or they use IPython/anaconda which has everything preloaded.

Cheers,

Hernán

Cheers,
Max

Hernán

(we moved from Mariano's repo, but the old one wasn't deleted).

Cheers,
Martín

El jue., 20 ago. 2015 a las 8:24, Hernán Morales Durand (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
Hello,

What is the status of Tanker?
I tried to loadDevelopment in Pharo 4 but there are references to PackageInfo, and tests fails.
Cheers,

Hernán

<TankerPackagesSupport-HernanMoralesDurand.11.mcz>

--
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com