Swazoo versions

Hi,

Today I was playing with the published version of Seaside made by Avi
Bryant the last week, which uses the Swazoo version for Dolphin made by
Sean Malloy, to add some missing functionalities I had working in my
earlier port of Seaside to Dolphin.

Considering to what Sean says in his website, the port is based on the
0.9.101 version, while Steve Waring's one is based on 0.9.99
(apparently). Sean's version is more conscise in terms of number of
packages, but it misses some classes such as SwazooSiteScript and other
very useful tools, available in Steve's version.

Considering that the Swazoo topic got warm this days, and that today
it's more a jungle than a zoo ;-), we could arrange some efforts to make
it converge into a single stream of development, at least compatible
with what already exists in Dolphin.

For example, you can't have Seaside and Spray web services running on
the same image, because they're incompatible (besides the fact that the
naming convention of Steve is different to the Sean's one*).

Plus, Dolphin ships with Steve's version, which is appropriate
considering the existing goodies and packages available, but not the
best option aiming to a broader audience through Seaside and other
popular developments that would come.

I leave the topic here, to see if there is enough interest to make it
happen. I would like to see Sean, Steve, Janko, the OA people, perhaps
Bruce Badger too, and anybody willing to collaborate at least in
testing, joining efforts for this.

Best regards,

--
Esteban.

* Steve: I will be happy to know what SW, SV, and other prefixes mean. :-)

ps: this is a cross-post to c.l.s.d, Swazoo and Seaside mailing lists,
sorry for any inconvenience caused.

I agree that it would be good to converge the multiple versions of
Swazoo. With Janko now using Dolphin, that should be easier. A Dolphin
port of Sport would also be handy. Unfortunately I don't have the time
to work on it, but I would be happy to help, test etc.

Some thoughts:

 - I think it would be better to see a definite resolution of the
Hyper/Swazoo split before bringing the old Dolphin version up to the
latest version.

 - Personally I do see Swazoo as being fairly modular ... the two main
modules being the http server and the resource framework. In the past,
I have plugged CGI servers and FastCGI servers into the Swazoo resource
framework, and also used the Swazoo http server with different content
systems.

It sounds like Avi has taken the latter approach with Seaside-Dolphin.
With the original Seaside-Dolphin port, I did use the Swazoo resource
framework via #resolveNamespaceResource: ... but the concept of
namespace resources may not be a part of the latest Swazoo versions.

> * Steve: I will be happy to know what SW, SV,
> and other prefixes mean. :-)

I use SV for packages that contain servers that can be deployed as
executables (both Swazoo based and CGI/FastCGI based).

I use SW as a kind of default namespace, both for packages and classes.

FWIW: When I extended the Dolphin port (from Jerry Bell's original
work), I was a touch naive and a bit too keen. If I had been a bit more
restrained, or if I had tried harder to get the changes folded back
into the VW version, some of this mess would not exist. Live and learn!

Steve

> ps: this is a cross-post to c.l.s.d, Swazoo and
> Seaside mailing lists, sorry for any inconvenience
> caused.

Ditto.

On Sun, 28 May 2006 21:12:07 -0300, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:

> I leave the topic here, to see if there is enough interest to make it
> happen. I would like to see Sean, Steve, Janko, the OA people, perhaps
> Bruce Badger too, and anybody willing to collaborate at least in
> testing, joining efforts for this.


I'm happy to help if I can.  I think an obstacle is that I don't run
Windows.  We have Macs and Linux here.

... but I'll be there in spirit!

All the best,
    Bruce

On Sun, 28 May 2006 20:40:39 -0700, Steve Alan Waring wrote:

>  - I think it would be better to see a definite resolution of the
> Hyper/Swazoo split before bringing the old Dolphin version up to the
> latest version.

This was our preference too.  All the changes we've made to the HTTP
server over the years we raised on the list first, then implemented, and
then published.  None of our work made it into Swazoo 1.0.  During this
time we had been saying we used the Swazoo HTTP server, but of course we
were using something has become increasingly different from the "official"
Swazoo HTTP server.  All we have done is give a name to the HTTP server we
use, and this really has helped clear up the confusion.

So, if there was a "split", it happened 3 years ago.  It's just become
obvious now.

Steve, I think that waiting for a Swazoo event is what led us to the point
where we named Hyper.  I'd suggest that you pick the HTTP server that
suits your needs and go with that.  BTW, the last publish of Swazoo I did
to the Cincom public Store was of a Swazoo using Hyper as the HTTP server,
so clearly Hyper can be used with Swazoo if you wish.

>  - Personally I do see Swazoo as being fairly modular ... the two main
> modules being the http server and the resource framework. In the past, I
> have plugged CGI servers and FastCGI servers into the Swazoo resource
> framework, and also used the Swazoo http server with different content
> systems.

Exactly.  We've demonstrated both.  The OpenSkills systems don't use the
resource part of Swazoo at all, they have only ever used (what is now
called) Hyper.  At the same time, we always made sure that any changes we
made to the HTTP server did not break any of the resource handling tests.

>> ps: this is a cross-post to c.l.s.d, Swazoo and Seaside mailing lists,
>> sorry for any inconvenience caused.
> Ditto.
Um, me too.

All the best,
        Bruce
--
Make the most of your skills - with OpenSkills
http://www.openskills.org/

Hi Esteban and others!

For start I prepared a table of Swazoo versions for all supported
dialects at: http://www.swazoo.org/download.html. It is not yet complete
and I hope someone will help me with some more info.

I also opened a FTP server at ftp://www.swazoo.org/swazoo , where IMO we
should put all those versions to be on one place.

Best regards
Janko

Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:

>
> Today I was playing with the published version of Seaside made by Avi
> Bryant the last week, which uses the Swazoo version for Dolphin made by
> Sean Malloy, to add some missing functionalities I had working in my
> earlier port of Seaside to Dolphin.

The port I is not Dolphin specific per se. It was done under Dolphin but the
intention was to make it portable to Squeak too. I never finished that work.
It is based on 0.9.101, which was actually released in the Cincom Public
Store as 1.0. So you can think of my version as a port of 1.0.

Steve's version is based on an older Swazoo, but he spent a lot of timing
really integrating it into Dolphin (creating MVP objects for
starting/stopping the server etc)

I agree that it is a confusing position to be in to have so many different
versions floating around. We need to merge.

My intention has always been to get Sport working in Dolphin. I don't
believe it to be a hard task. I just haven't had the time =\

> For start I prepared a table of Swazoo versions for all supported dialects
> at: http://www.swazoo.org/download.html. It is not yet complete and I hope
> someone will help me with some more info.
>
> I also opened a FTP server at ftp://www.swazoo.org/swazoo , where IMO we
> should put all those versions to be on one place.


I have just updated the version on my website w/ the code contained in the
AIDA/Web Dolphin Port. This is Swazoo 1.0. Next step is to get Sport working
on Dolphin so we can get Hyper/Other XDialect code running under Dolphin too

Hi Sean,

Sean M wrote:
Perfect! I just updated Swazoo download page at
http://www.swazoo.org/download.html to point your version 1.0.

Best regards
Janko

Hi Esteban and others,

Esteban A. Maringolo wrote:
For Dolphin I propose the next plan:

1. Port SPort portability layer to Dolphin (urgent!),
2. port Swazoo 1.1.x (dev.branch towards 2.0) to Dolphin,
3. adjust Seaside and Aida to a new Swazoo,
4. include changes and goodies (like GUI console) from Steve's Swazoo,
5. release Swazoo 2.0 on Dolphin, together with 2.0 on other dialects.

In parallel there would be nice to do the same for Squeak and maybe some
other dialect too, so that we can exchange porting experiences and also
make Swazoo even more easy to port in future.

See also my statement of direction at http://www.swazoo.org/development.html


So, all that said I think we can achieve as you propose, Esteban. But
porting SPort is definitively a first step. Is there anyone who is
willing to do SPort port ASAP?

Best regards
Janko

Hi Sean,

Sean M escribió:

> I have just updated the version on my website w/ the code contained in the
> AIDA/Web Dolphin Port. This is Swazoo 1.0. Next step is to get Sport working
> on Dolphin so we can get Hyper/Other XDialect code running under Dolphin too

I started to port SPort to Dolphin X6 yesterday.

Best regards,

--
Esteban.