On 2010-04-22, at 11:43 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and university and education > then we will end up to nothing. zero ok one or two, now individually > we can take the responsibility to say what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself. > > > Stef It's not just intersection of Smalltalk, let me ramble, APL, Cobol, Fortran, Lisp, Basic, Lua , Ruby, Perl, Simula, Algol68, PL/I no doubt there are a few more, that is what is at risk. Or do educational institutes only dabble and teach in C++ still? -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com =========================================================================== _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project smime.p7s (3K) Download Attachment |
Em 22/04/2010 17:00, John M McIntosh <[hidden email]> escreveu:
> On 2010-04-22, at 11:43 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: > > > if we start to make the intersection between smalltalk and > > university and education then we will end up to nothing. zero ok > > one or two, now individually we can take the responsibility to say > > what we think about apple attitude and I will do it for myself. > > > > Stef > It's not just intersection of Smalltalk, let me ramble, APL, Cobol, > Fortran, Lisp, Basic, Lua , Ruby, Perl, Simula, Algol68, PL/I no > doubt there are a few more, that is what is at risk. > Or do educational institutes only dabble and teach in C++ still? John, I respect your point but I feel this is stretching into a Crusade! Scratch itself is the point still or is it to be an example of the 'liberty' we would like to have in a Commercial defined and owned by a company platform? If the former, I think the issue could eventually boils down to Apple sponsoring MIT or other institution (ESUG probably would not be interested) in doing the necessary port of Scratch [viewer for iPad] to ObjC or Javascript. I mean, in a nutshell it is the question of the availability of the Scratch application versus a certain investment done to have it in iPad. If the latter, I think we need to find first why we're so certain we (the melting pot community you mention above: from COBOL to Lua) have any "rights" to have our favorite language available or approved by Apple to run in _its_ platform? Notwithstanding the historical tie to an idea of the Dynabook et al., the iPad is an iPad! Are we so sure that iPad would be this so astonishing success in such a way that if Scratch does not come by via an iPad the majority of the teens which are the intended audience of Scratch would become orphaned of using Scratch? Let's ask ourselves, due to principles would we (instead of putting black skulls on our pages) steer away of Apple and stop doing development work for all Apple devices (the only way to have a visible effect), as was for a time a ban from FSF due the Apple's litigation on the 'look and feel' of their apps? I don't think it is reasonable nor expected. . . my 0.19999.... -- Cesar Rabak _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by johnmci
Radoslav asked yesterday about progress on the issue of Scratch on the iPad, so it's timely to give everyone an update.
I did ask Apple today for an update on the situation and was told: "We're still pondering the issue" So I remain positive and wait. On 2010-05-16, at 3:34 AM, radoslav hodnicak wrote: > > Was there any conclusion to these talks? > -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com =========================================================================== _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project smime.p7s (3K) Download Attachment |
On 5/17/10 6:08 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
> Radoslav asked yesterday about progress on the issue of Scratch on the iPad, so it's timely to give everyone an update. > > I did ask Apple today for an update on the situation and was told: "We're still pondering the issue" > > So I remain positive and wait. > Since APple owns part of the copyright to Squeak, perhaps you could just point out to them that it doesn't create an exception to their rule. Lawson _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by johnmci
Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any?
http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/ Lawson _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things.
The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages. So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet... But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing" Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad. I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad. I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet. On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote: > Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any? > > http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/ > > > Lawson -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com =========================================================================== _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project smime.p7s (3K) Download Attachment |
Thanks John and Alan for your efforts.
Noury On 11 juin 2010, at 07:43, John M McIntosh wrote: > Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things. > > The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages. > > So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet... > > But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing" > > Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad. > > I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad. > > I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet. > > On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote: > >> Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any? >> >> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/ >> >> >> Lawson > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
In reply to this post by johnmci
Thank you Alan&John for your great job !
I will maybe buy an ipad and i would love to do some Squeak/Pharo activities in this platform. On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:43 PM, John M McIntosh <[hidden email]> wrote: > Well I was hoping to have a few more days to settle things. > > The Smalltalk community should take a deep bow and thank Alan Kay for spending many hours talking to the highest level of people at Apple about the importance of the iPad as a platform to teach computational theory to people of all ages. > > So how does this all sort out? Well I don't know, nothing has officially changed, yet... > > But I'm at WWDC this week, I did talk to the manager of the App Store (they were expecting me) and I do have an appointment with Apple next week to discuss the "Unless otherwise approved by Apple in writing" > > Once that happens I will let everyone know the outcome, Apple is working what the approval process is, and I think the Smalltalk & Scratch community will be the first players in the door for Apple's embracing of interpreted languages for educational purposes on the iPad. > > I must publicly thank the Smalltalk and Scratch communities for being patient and polite in waiting for the issue to resolve itself, and true thanks should be directed to Alan for his behind the scenes efforts in ensuring the Computer Science community has equal footing with the language arts & music departments for apps on the iPad. > > I caution everyone that we're not there yet, but let's see what happens next week, so don't open the champaign bottles yet. > > On 2010-06-10, at 7:40 PM, Lawson English wrote: > >> Does this change the status of Scratch on iphone any? >> >> http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/ >> >> >> Lawson > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]> Twitter: squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Esug-list mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org > > -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/ _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project |
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