Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

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Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

johnmci
Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app, I've seen lots of discussion and speculation flow by on the esug, scratch and pharo lists, some of it correct, and some of it incorrect.

First, Scratch.app was remove from sale in the app store because the Scratch programming language is an interpreted language, and it's not on the approved interpreted language list.  My understanding is that Apple has not yet rejected apps because they are "made" with a particular language.  The rejection is solely due to the result of Scratch being a non approved 'interpreted" language.

Second, I drafted a letter titled: "Rejecting an app with foundations in the Dynabook vision" and posted it to: https://devforums.apple.com/thread/46425

At this time, this letter is not for public viewing since I want to have more discussion with Apple and the paid Apple developer community. It seems having public rage about the unfairness about what Apple is doing just makes Apple less receptive to dialog. I would ask the community not to cross post my letter anywhere until we have had more discussions with Apple. As an example this morning there was talk with a member of the App review team about having this matter ending up on Phil Shiller's desk.

Third, I sent a copy of the letter to Steve Jobs.  He did respond.  Our incomplete conversation is private, no solution or decision has been reached, and due to Apple's earnings reports coming up next tuesday I don't foresee any activity on the matter until after that event.

Fourth, I have interest & support from Dr Alan Kay, Dr Mitchel Resnick, and others, I think people do take the matter about the freedom to write applications in a language of their choosing and using a particular implementation (interpreted, JIT, compiled) seriously, so I hope movement with Apple on the general topic will occur shortly.

Once Apple's management team has made a response I'm sure you will all hear about it.
 
--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================







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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Karl Ramberg
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:09 PM, John M McIntosh
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app, I've seen lots of discussion and speculation flow by on the esug, scratch and pharo lists, some of it correct, and some of it incorrect.
>
> First, Scratch.app was remove from sale in the app store because the Scratch programming language is an interpreted language, and it's not on the approved interpreted language list.  My understanding is that Apple has not yet rejected apps because they are "made" with a particular language.  The rejection is solely due to the result of Scratch being a non approved 'interpreted" language.
>
> Second, I drafted a letter titled: "Rejecting an app with foundations in the Dynabook vision" and posted it to: https://devforums.apple.com/thread/46425
>
> At this time, this letter is not for public viewing since I want to have more discussion with Apple and the paid Apple developer community. It seems having public rage about the unfairness about what Apple is doing just makes Apple less receptive to dialog. I would ask the community not to cross post my letter anywhere until we have had more discussions with Apple. As an example this morning there was talk with a member of the App review team about having this matter ending up on Phil Shiller's desk.
>
> Third, I sent a copy of the letter to Steve Jobs.  He did respond.  Our incomplete conversation is private, no solution or decision has been reached, and due to Apple's earnings reports coming up next tuesday I don't foresee any activity on the matter until after that event.
>
> Fourth, I have interest & support from Dr Alan Kay, Dr Mitchel Resnick, and others, I think people do take the matter about the freedom to write applications in a language of their choosing and using a particular implementation (interpreted, JIT, compiled) seriously, so I hope movement with Apple on the general topic will occur shortly.
>
> Once Apple's management team has made a response I'm sure you will all hear about it.
>
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yay

Karl

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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Andreas.Raab
In reply to this post by johnmci
Thanks John. Keep us posted.

Cheers,
   - Andreas

On 4/16/2010 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote:

> Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app, I've seen lots of discussion and speculation flow by on the esug, scratch and pharo lists, some of it correct, and some of it incorrect.
>
> First, Scratch.app was remove from sale in the app store because the Scratch programming language is an interpreted language, and it's not on the approved interpreted language list.  My understanding is that Apple has not yet rejected apps because they are "made" with a particular language.  The rejection is solely due to the result of Scratch being a non approved 'interpreted" language.
>
> Second, I drafted a letter titled: "Rejecting an app with foundations in the Dynabook vision" and posted it to: https://devforums.apple.com/thread/46425
>
> At this time, this letter is not for public viewing since I want to have more discussion with Apple and the paid Apple developer community. It seems having public rage about the unfairness about what Apple is doing just makes Apple less receptive to dialog. I would ask the community not to cross post my letter anywhere until we have had more discussions with Apple. As an example this morning there was talk with a member of the App review team about having this matter ending up on Phil Shiller's desk.
>
> Third, I sent a copy of the letter to Steve Jobs.  He did respond.  Our incomplete conversation is private, no solution or decision has been reached, and due to Apple's earnings reports coming up next tuesday I don't foresee any activity on the matter until after that event.
>
> Fourth, I have interest&  support from Dr Alan Kay, Dr Mitchel Resnick, and others, I think people do take the matter about the freedom to write applications in a language of their choosing and using a particular implementation (interpreted, JIT, compiled) seriously, so I hope movement with Apple on the general topic will occur shortly.
>
> Once Apple's management team has made a response I'm sure you will all hear about it.
>
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh<[hidden email]>    Twitter:  squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: [Esug-list] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by johnmci
thanks john!

On Apr 16, 2010, at 8:09 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:

> Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app, I've seen lots of discussion and speculation flow by on the esug, scratch and pharo lists, some of it correct, and some of it incorrect.
>
> First, Scratch.app was remove from sale in the app store because the Scratch programming language is an interpreted language, and it's not on the approved interpreted language list.  My understanding is that Apple has not yet rejected apps because they are "made" with a particular language.  The rejection is solely due to the result of Scratch being a non approved 'interpreted" language.
>
> Second, I drafted a letter titled: "Rejecting an app with foundations in the Dynabook vision" and posted it to: https://devforums.apple.com/thread/46425
>
> At this time, this letter is not for public viewing since I want to have more discussion with Apple and the paid Apple developer community. It seems having public rage about the unfairness about what Apple is doing just makes Apple less receptive to dialog. I would ask the community not to cross post my letter anywhere until we have had more discussions with Apple. As an example this morning there was talk with a member of the App review team about having this matter ending up on Phil Shiller's desk.
>
> Third, I sent a copy of the letter to Steve Jobs.  He did respond.  Our incomplete conversation is private, no solution or decision has been reached, and due to Apple's earnings reports coming up next tuesday I don't foresee any activity on the matter until after that event.
>
> Fourth, I have interest & support from Dr Alan Kay, Dr Mitchel Resnick, and others, I think people do take the matter about the freedom to write applications in a language of their choosing and using a particular implementation (interpreted, JIT, compiled) seriously, so I hope movement with Apple on the general topic will occur shortly.
>
> Once Apple's management team has made a response I'm sure you will all hear about it.
>
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Esug-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list


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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Andreas.Raab
In reply to this post by johnmci
Great news, Wired also picked up on the story:

        http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/apple-scratch-app/

The more public outrage about Apple's policies, the better.

Cheers,
   - Andreas

On 4/16/2010 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote:

> Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app, I've seen lots of discussion and speculation flow by on the esug, scratch and pharo lists, some of it correct, and some of it incorrect.
>
> First, Scratch.app was remove from sale in the app store because the Scratch programming language is an interpreted language, and it's not on the approved interpreted language list.  My understanding is that Apple has not yet rejected apps because they are "made" with a particular language.  The rejection is solely due to the result of Scratch being a non approved 'interpreted" language.
>
> Second, I drafted a letter titled: "Rejecting an app with foundations in the Dynabook vision" and posted it to: https://devforums.apple.com/thread/46425
>
> At this time, this letter is not for public viewing since I want to have more discussion with Apple and the paid Apple developer community. It seems having public rage about the unfairness about what Apple is doing just makes Apple less receptive to dialog. I would ask the community not to cross post my letter anywhere until we have had more discussions with Apple. As an example this morning there was talk with a member of the App review team about having this matter ending up on Phil Shiller's desk.
>
> Third, I sent a copy of the letter to Steve Jobs.  He did respond.  Our incomplete conversation is private, no solution or decision has been reached, and due to Apple's earnings reports coming up next tuesday I don't foresee any activity on the matter until after that event.
>
> Fourth, I have interest&  support from Dr Alan Kay, Dr Mitchel Resnick, and others, I think people do take the matter about the freedom to write applications in a language of their choosing and using a particular implementation (interpreted, JIT, compiled) seriously, so I hope movement with Apple on the general topic will occur shortly.
>
> Once Apple's management team has made a response I'm sure you will all hear about it.
>
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh<[hidden email]>    Twitter:  squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Bert Freudenberg
Here's Mitch Resnick's take:

http://blog.scratch.mit.edu/2010/04/scratch-on-iphone.html

- Bert -

On 20.04.2010, at 21:01, Andreas Raab wrote:

>
> Great news, Wired also picked up on the story:
>
> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/apple-scratch-app/
>
> The more public outrage about Apple's policies, the better.
>
> Cheers,
>  - Andreas
>
> On 4/16/2010 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote:
>> Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app, I've seen lots of discussion and speculation flow by on the esug, scratch and pharo lists, some of it correct, and some of it incorrect.
>>
>> First, Scratch.app was remove from sale in the app store because the Scratch programming language is an interpreted language, and it's not on the approved interpreted language list.  My understanding is that Apple has not yet rejected apps because they are "made" with a particular language.  The rejection is solely due to the result of Scratch being a non approved 'interpreted" language.
>>
>> Second, I drafted a letter titled: "Rejecting an app with foundations in the Dynabook vision" and posted it to: https://devforums.apple.com/thread/46425
>>
>> At this time, this letter is not for public viewing since I want to have more discussion with Apple and the paid Apple developer community. It seems having public rage about the unfairness about what Apple is doing just makes Apple less receptive to dialog. I would ask the community not to cross post my letter anywhere until we have had more discussions with Apple. As an example this morning there was talk with a member of the App review team about having this matter ending up on Phil Shiller's desk.
>>
>> Third, I sent a copy of the letter to Steve Jobs.  He did respond.  Our incomplete conversation is private, no solution or decision has been reached, and due to Apple's earnings reports coming up next tuesday I don't foresee any activity on the matter until after that event.
>>
>> Fourth, I have interest&  support from Dr Alan Kay, Dr Mitchel Resnick, and others, I think people do take the matter about the freedom to write applications in a language of their choosing and using a particular implementation (interpreted, JIT, compiled) seriously, so I hope movement with Apple on the general topic will occur shortly.
>>
>> Once Apple's management team has made a response I'm sure you will all hear about it.
>>
>> --
>> ===========================================================================
>> John M. McIntosh<[hidden email]>    Twitter:  squeaker68882
>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>> ===========================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>



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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

johnmci
In reply to this post by johnmci
This morning there was a huge rumbling of email in my in-box.
The result accumulated in Wired's nicely written article which you can find at http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/apple-scratch-app

At this time I have no further information to offer and I'm awaiting further communication from Apple.
Alan Kay did contribute to the article, I did not, other than various quotes Wired lifted from my letter in the Apple Developer Forums.

--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================







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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

johnmci
Obviously I'm collecting media links on the issue http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Scratch.html
--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================







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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

stephane ducasse-2
would be nice to mention somewhere that esug pays for the Squeak on iphone VM...

Stef (we know that ESUG is cool but may be other still doubts about it :).

On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:41 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:

> Obviously I'm collecting media links on the issue http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Scratch.html
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

johnmci
In reply to this post by johnmci
Morning, I've posted the letter I had posted to the Apple developer forums and sent to Steve Jobs at

http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Interpreters.html

I'll suggest there was some lifting of concept and quotes by Wired from letter.

As of this morning I have no further news, I have heard thru various sources that the issue is not dead yet,
 
So I wait.

On 2010-04-16, at 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote:

> Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app

--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================







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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

stephane ducasse
Good!
John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported this VM work for the iphone.

STef

On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:12 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:

> Morning, I've posted the letter I had posted to the Apple developer forums and sent to Steve Jobs at
>
> http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Interpreters.html
>
> I'll suggest there was some lifting of concept and quotes by Wired from letter.
>
> As of this morning I have no further news, I have heard thru various sources that the issue is not dead yet,
>
> So I wait.
>
> On 2010-04-16, at 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote:
>
>> Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app
>
> --
> ===========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> ===========================================================================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

johnmci

On 2010-04-21, at 1:13 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:

> Good!
> John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported this VM work for the iphone.
>
> STef

Yes, I did conduct a magazine interview today where I ensured I did mentioned that ESUG funding was
instrumental in getting the foundations of Scratch (aka Squeak VM) onto the iPhone, otherwise it
would never have happened.

As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not allowed, but in the
future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even if it's hidden from view
or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application.
 
--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================







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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Phil B
In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re:  
how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for  
Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in the  
platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out.  Wouldn't now  
be a good time to try to get some visibility on the larger issue?

Phil

On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:13 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:

> Good!
> John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported  
> this VM work for the iphone.
>
> STef
>
> On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:12 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:
>
>> Morning, I've posted the letter I had posted to the Apple developer  
>> forums and sent to Steve Jobs at
>>
>> http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Interpreters.html
>>
>> I'll suggest there was some lifting of concept and quotes by Wired  
>> from letter.
>>
>> As of this morning I have no further news, I have heard thru  
>> various sources that the issue is not dead yet,
>>
>> So I wait.
>>
>> On 2010-04-16, at 11:09 AM, John M McIntosh wrote:
>>
>>> Let me give everyone an update on what is going on with Scratch.app
>>
>> --
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =====================================================================
>> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  
>> squeaker68882
>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =====================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>


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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

stephane ducasse
In reply to this post by johnmci

On Apr 21, 2010, at 10:26 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:

>
> On 2010-04-21, at 1:13 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>
>> Good!
>> John in future version it may be good to mention that ESUG supported this VM work for the iphone.
>>
>> STef
>
> Yes, I did conduct a magazine interview today where I ensured I did mentioned that ESUG funding was
> instrumental in getting the foundations of Scratch (aka Squeak VM) onto the iPhone, otherwise it
> would never have happened.

Excellent!

> As everyone should be aware Scratch as an interpreted language is not allowed, but in the
> future Smalltalk as a language not on the short list is not allowed even if it's hidden from view
> or ultimately cross compiled into an Objective-C application.

Great! But nothing really new on that front.

Stef
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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

stephane ducasse
In reply to this post by Phil B

On Apr 21, 2010, at 10:29 PM, Phil (list) wrote:

> I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re: how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out.  Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the larger issue?

We were waiting to get news from the scratch story.
And also I'm not a really good politically correct person to write that so
any text to start with would help the board to produce a statement going in that direction.

Stef
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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

johnmci
In reply to this post by Phil B
Phil, last week I asked the smalltalk community (ESUG  etc), to stay claim and wait for Apple to think about it based on an email
exchange I had with Steve Jobs. At the time I thought it prudent to wait a further decision or statement.

Give that Wired publish Alan & my thoughts on the matter it's likely now time to consider what to do next.  
 
So this is NOT the fault of ESUG not being proactive, they were itching to do something.  

At the moment I believe they are collecting ideas how to approach the problem in a meaningful manner.
Suggestions are welcome.

 
On 2010-04-21, at 1:29 PM, Phil (list) wrote:

> I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re: how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out.  Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the larger issue?
>
> Phil

--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================







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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Eliot Miranda-2


On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 1:48 PM, John M McIntosh <[hidden email]> wrote:
Phil, last week I asked the smalltalk community (ESUG  etc), to stay claim and wait for Apple to think about it based on an email
exchange I had with Steve Jobs. At the time I thought it prudent to wait a further decision or statement.

Give that Wired publish Alan & my thoughts on the matter it's likely now time to consider what to do next.

So this is NOT the fault of ESUG not being proactive, they were itching to do something.

At the moment I believe they are collecting ideas how to approach the problem in a meaningful manner.
Suggestions are welcome.

Port to Android asap.  Competitive pressure can make Apple move.  I'm not sure about anything else.

 


On 2010-04-21, at 1:29 PM, Phil (list) wrote:

> I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re: how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out.  Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the larger issue?
>
> Phil

--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  squeaker68882
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
===========================================================================










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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Bert Freudenberg
On 21.04.2010, at 22:56, Eliot Miranda wrote:


On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 1:48 PM, John M McIntosh <[hidden email]> wrote:
Phil, last week I asked the smalltalk community (ESUG  etc), to stay claim and wait for Apple to think about it based on an email
exchange I had with Steve Jobs. At the time I thought it prudent to wait a further decision or statement.

Give that Wired publish Alan & my thoughts on the matter it's likely now time to consider what to do next.

So this is NOT the fault of ESUG not being proactive, they were itching to do something.

At the moment I believe they are collecting ideas how to approach the problem in a meaningful manner.
Suggestions are welcome.

Port to Android asap.  Competitive pressure can make Apple move.  I'm not sure about anything else.

Apple will move eventually. I found this illuminating about their motives:


- Bert -




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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Phil B
In reply to this post by johnmci
John & Stephane,

Fair enough and good to know that folks like ESUG will be weighing  
in.  I think you're on the right track re: gathering vocal support  
from the Scratch community that is constructive rather than bashing  
Apple, and have mainly been wondering why there wasn't a more  
concerted push from the Smalltalk and dynamic languages community in  
general talking about how policies like this would make iPhone OS a  
non-viable platform for them and push them to invest in alternatives  
such as Android to the exclusion of iPhone OS, rather than in addition  
to it.  I'm not sure how much additional impact that would have, but  
the endgame for many tools/languages on iPhone OS doesn't seem to be  
very far off and I'm not terribly optimistic on how this will be  
decided.

Thanks,
Phil


On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:48 PM, John M McIntosh wrote:

> Phil, last week I asked the smalltalk community (ESUG  etc), to stay  
> claim and wait for Apple to think about it based on an email
> exchange I had with Steve Jobs. At the time I thought it prudent to  
> wait a further decision or statement.
>
> Give that Wired publish Alan & my thoughts on the matter it's likely  
> now time to consider what to do next.
>
> So this is NOT the fault of ESUG not being proactive, they were  
> itching to do something.
>
> At the moment I believe they are collecting ideas how to approach  
> the problem in a meaningful manner.
> Suggestions are welcome.
>
>
> On 2010-04-21, at 1:29 PM, Phil (list) wrote:
>
>> I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re:  
>> how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for  
>> Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in  
>> the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out.  
>> Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the  
>> larger issue?
>>
>> Phil
>
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> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>   Twitter:  
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> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://
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Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

Igor Stasenko
In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg
On 22 April 2010 00:57, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 21.04.2010, at 22:56, Eliot Miranda wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 1:48 PM, John M McIntosh
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Phil, last week I asked the smalltalk community (ESUG  etc), to stay claim
>> and wait for Apple to think about it based on an email
>> exchange I had with Steve Jobs. At the time I thought it prudent to wait a
>> further decision or statement.
>>
>> Give that Wired publish Alan & my thoughts on the matter it's likely now
>> time to consider what to do next.
>>
>> So this is NOT the fault of ESUG not being proactive, they were itching to
>> do something.
>>
>> At the moment I believe they are collecting ideas how to approach the
>> problem in a meaningful manner.
>> Suggestions are welcome.
>
> Port to Android asap.  Competitive pressure can make Apple move.  I'm not
> sure about anything else.
>
> Apple will move eventually. I found this illuminating about their motives:
> http://www.asktog.com/columns/082iPad&Mac.html

I found it a bit depressive. I can do one little conclusion from it:
It sounds like only Steve Jobs reserves the right to make great
things, while others should sit and wait, until he will generously
allow them to use it. It also seems like all developers in the world,
already stamped by his “THIS IS S___!”  red stamp, without even
noticed. So, no matter what they do, or how great their ideas is, its
worthless, because Great Steve didn't blessed it.

So, i feel a big disdain, because the above shows only an egocentric,
childish and ill-minded nature of Apple's head.
- Hear plebs, a made a new iThing for you. Eat my flesh, drink my blood.

> - Bert -
>

--
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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