Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

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Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Bryce Kampjes

Ubuntu is a distribution that would like to include Squeak. It
would be great if a few people could try installing Ubuntu Dapper
Drake to test their Squeak package.

They've already included Squeak in their last release (Breezy Badger)
however their release team does not include people who use Squeak. So
they've got a VM and some nice menu short-cuts but no image which
doesn't work. A little help from a few people who know how to install
Squeak on Unix now would make a big difference.

If you've got some time to help get a working Squeak in this growing
distribution then testing Squeak in Dapper and providing feedback on
on the irc channel #ubuntu-motu on freenode (irc.freenode.net) would
be great. The cut-off time is the 16th of March but there's been
a 6 week extension.

I'm unfortunately a little busy working on my StS talk so don't
personally have time now.

Bryce

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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Damien Cassou-3
Hi,

I would like to help with ubuntu and squeak. I have a breezy and a
dapper on my system.


Dapper is the amd64 version but I can change if it is needed for the
tests. It seems the virtual machine does not exist for amd64. What can I
do to help you ?

Bye


--
Damien Cassou


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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

John Hinsley

            It would be great to have Debian packages of Squeak out
            there on the repositories. Historically, Lex Spoon made some
            .debs and AFAIK Squeak is still included with the Japanese
            version of Knoppix. Go for it, and good luck!



            Cheers


            John


Damien Cassou wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I would like to help with ubuntu and squeak. I have a breezy and a
>dapper on my system.
>
>
>Dapper is the amd64 version but I can change if it is needed for the
>tests. It seems the virtual machine does not exist for amd64. What can I
>do to help you ?
>
>Bye
>
>
>  
>


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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Damien Pollet
In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
On 3/23/06, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Dapper is the amd64 version but I can change if it is needed for the
> tests. It seems the virtual machine does not exist for amd64. What can I
> do to help you ?

I built the 3.8 VM from sources on sparc64 on dapper, and had to make
a small fix to make it succeed (reported on vm-dev@), but I have no
experience writing or fixing debian packages...

--
 Damien Pollet
 type less, do more


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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Bryce Kampjes
In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3

Damien Cassou writes:
 > Hi,
 >
 > I would like to help with ubuntu and squeak. I have a breezy and a
 > dapper on my system.
 >
 >
 > Dapper is the amd64 version but I can change if it is needed for the
 > tests. It seems the virtual machine does not exist for amd64. What can I
 > do to help you ?

The key thing is to test the install for the 32 bit install. The
idea is to make sure that what's in the dapper release should
just work. The key audience is teachers and people who're not yet
sold on Squeak but will try it out if the packages work cleanly.

Just install 32 bit Dapper and try to install Squeak, think about how
the install works if you're not a knowledgeable Squeaker. Talk to the
Ubuntu packagers on #ubuntu-motu and explain to them what needs to be
done so it will work.

We owe this opportunity to Hilaire and the others who've convinced the
Ubuntu people that Squeak's a great educational platform. What we need
to do now is make sure that the Ubuntu packages do work for normal
people. This is the Ubuntu mission and they're a friendly helpful
crowd. All that you need to do is to test their Squeak packages and
then explain to them how it works if there are problems.

Bryce

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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Alan Kay
Just curious as to why this would be an issue. Squeak works fine on any
number of Linux systems, why would there be any special difficulties with
Ubuntu?

Cheers,

Alan

-------

At 02:25 PM 3/23/2006, Bryce Kampjes wrote:

>Damien Cassou writes:
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > I would like to help with ubuntu and squeak. I have a breezy and a
>  > dapper on my system.
>  >
>  >
>  > Dapper is the amd64 version but I can change if it is needed for the
>  > tests. It seems the virtual machine does not exist for amd64. What can I
>  > do to help you ?
>
>The key thing is to test the install for the 32 bit install. The
>idea is to make sure that what's in the dapper release should
>just work. The key audience is teachers and people who're not yet
>sold on Squeak but will try it out if the packages work cleanly.
>
>Just install 32 bit Dapper and try to install Squeak, think about how
>the install works if you're not a knowledgeable Squeaker. Talk to the
>Ubuntu packagers on #ubuntu-motu and explain to them what needs to be
>done so it will work.
>
>We owe this opportunity to Hilaire and the others who've convinced the
>Ubuntu people that Squeak's a great educational platform. What we need
>to do now is make sure that the Ubuntu packages do work for normal
>people. This is the Ubuntu mission and they're a friendly helpful
>crowd. All that you need to do is to test their Squeak packages and
>then explain to them how it works if there are problems.
>
>Bryce



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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Bert Freudenberg-3
In reply to this post by Bryce Kampjes

Am 23.03.2006 um 23:25 schrieb Bryce Kampjes:

>
> Damien Cassou writes:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to help with ubuntu and squeak. I have a breezy and a
>> dapper on my system.
>>
>>
>> Dapper is the amd64 version but I can change if it is needed for the
>> tests. It seems the virtual machine does not exist for amd64. What  
>> can I
>> do to help you ?
>
> The key thing is to test the install for the 32 bit install. The
> idea is to make sure that what's in the dapper release should
> just work. The key audience is teachers and people who're not yet
> sold on Squeak but will try it out if the packages work cleanly.
>
> Just install 32 bit Dapper and try to install Squeak, think about how
> the install works if you're not a knowledgeable Squeaker. Talk to the
> Ubuntu packagers on #ubuntu-motu and explain to them what needs to be
> done so it will work.
>
> We owe this opportunity to Hilaire and the others who've convinced the
> Ubuntu people that Squeak's a great educational platform. What we need
> to do now is make sure that the Ubuntu packages do work for normal
> people. This is the Ubuntu mission and they're a friendly helpful
> crowd. All that you need to do is to test their Squeak packages and
> then explain to them how it works if there are problems.

I haven't looked at the Ubuntu packages, but we have current debian  
packages for Squeakland:

        http://www.squeakland.org/plugin/installers/ux.html

        (dev snapshots at http://impara.de/debian/)

These packages include a menu entry, automated user setup, create a  
"My Squeak" link on the user's desktop (similar to Mac and Windows) etc.

What is the base for the Ubuntu packages?

- Bert -


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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Ken Causey-3
We have an 'official' repository for Squeak at

http://ftp.squeak.org/debian/  (or ftp://ftp.squeak.org/debian/ )

but it's a bit out of date.  I don't suppose someone there would be
intereseted in freshening it up a bit?

Ken

On Fri, 2006-03-24 at 11:26 +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

>
> I haven't looked at the Ubuntu packages, but we have current debian  
> packages for Squeakland:
>
> http://www.squeakland.org/plugin/installers/ux.html
>
> (dev snapshots at http://impara.de/debian/)
>
> These packages include a menu entry, automated user setup, create a  
> "My Squeak" link on the user's desktop (similar to Mac and Windows) etc.
>
> What is the base for the Ubuntu packages?
>
> - Bert -
>



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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Bryce Kampjes
In reply to this post by Alan Kay
Alan Kay writes:
 > Just curious as to why this would be an issue. Squeak works fine on any
 > number of Linux systems, why would there be any special difficulties with
 > Ubuntu?

Hi Alan,

Squeak when manually installed works fine in Ubuntu. What I'd like is
to see Squeak installed from the Ubuntu distribution working
well. This is so people with minimal Unix expertise and no prior
Squeak experience can get started easily in Squeak while running
Ubuntu.

Imagine you're a non-technical teacher running Ubuntu (yes Ubuntu is
targeting educational use), you've heard of Squeak and feel like
trying it out. Having it properly included in the distribution would
mean that you just need to ask the package manager to install Squeak
then start using it. The package will create the appropriate menu
items and desktop short cuts.

Ubuntu tried to install Squeak in Breezy Badger, their last release.
They forgot to add an image to their packages. This meant that Squeak
didn't work. People did try Squeak because it was in Breezy. I know
this because some of them asked on #squeak-dev about how to get Squeak
running. Many more probably just gave up without saying anything.

The Ubuntu packagers are convinced that Squeak should be included
because of it's educational value. But the packagers are not Squeakers
or even Smalltalkers which means working with images is foreign to
them. The Squeak install just needs to be tested while there's still
time to fix bugs, and if there are issues they may need help resolving
them. We have less than three weeks to make sure it works before their
next release will be frozen.

The issue is about getting Squeak running flawlessly in a major Linux
distribution. It's about reducing the barriers to join our community.
We now have a great opportunity to get Squeak included and working in
a major Linux distribution, let's make the most of it.

Bryce

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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Alan Kay
Thanks Bryce --

I see.

One thing to think about here is "Squeak" and "Squeak Etoys" as separate
things for somewhat different users (this is why we have separate websites).

The Etoys, when downloaded from the Squeakland site, will run both
standalone and as a web browser plugin (and the plugin is run in a sandbox
for protection, etc.). It would be great to have this preinstalled on the
Ubuntu disk.

It might be worthwhile to actually have two different logos to distinguish
the two systems for the two sets of users?

Cheers,

Alan

At 02:39 PM 3/24/2006, Bryce Kampjes wrote:

>Alan Kay writes:
>  > Just curious as to why this would be an issue. Squeak works fine on any
>  > number of Linux systems, why would there be any special difficulties with
>  > Ubuntu?
>
>Hi Alan,
>
>Squeak when manually installed works fine in Ubuntu. What I'd like is
>to see Squeak installed from the Ubuntu distribution working
>well. This is so people with minimal Unix expertise and no prior
>Squeak experience can get started easily in Squeak while running
>Ubuntu.
>
>Imagine you're a non-technical teacher running Ubuntu (yes Ubuntu is
>targeting educational use), you've heard of Squeak and feel like
>trying it out. Having it properly included in the distribution would
>mean that you just need to ask the package manager to install Squeak
>then start using it. The package will create the appropriate menu
>items and desktop short cuts.
>
>Ubuntu tried to install Squeak in Breezy Badger, their last release.
>They forgot to add an image to their packages. This meant that Squeak
>didn't work. People did try Squeak because it was in Breezy. I know
>this because some of them asked on #squeak-dev about how to get Squeak
>running. Many more probably just gave up without saying anything.
>
>The Ubuntu packagers are convinced that Squeak should be included
>because of it's educational value. But the packagers are not Squeakers
>or even Smalltalkers which means working with images is foreign to
>them. The Squeak install just needs to be tested while there's still
>time to fix bugs, and if there are issues they may need help resolving
>them. We have less than three weeks to make sure it works before their
>next release will be frozen.
>
>The issue is about getting Squeak running flawlessly in a major Linux
>distribution. It's about reducing the barriers to join our community.
>We now have a great opportunity to get Squeak included and working in
>a major Linux distribution, let's make the most of it.
>
>Bryce



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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Milan Zimmermann-2
In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg-3
On Friday 24 March 2006 05:26, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

<<snip>>
>
> I haven't looked at the Ubuntu packages, but we have current debian
> packages for Squeakland:
>
> http://www.squeakland.org/plugin/installers/ux.html
>

One of the links on this site:

        squeak-vm-3.7i7sl-2.i386.rpm

is broken. It seems it should be:

        squeak-vm-3.7i7sl-4.i386.rpm

(is the sl-3 different from sl-4?)

Milan


> (dev snapshots at http://impara.de/debian/)
>
> These packages include a menu entry, automated user setup, create a
> "My Squeak" link on the user's desktop (similar to Mac and Windows) etc.
>
> What is the base for the Ubuntu packages?
>
> - Bert -

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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

stéphane ducasse-2
In reply to this post by Alan Kay
> I see.
>
> One thing to think about here is "Squeak" and "Squeak Etoys" as  
> separate things for somewhat different users (this is why we have  
> separate websites).
>
> The Etoys, when downloaded from the Squeakland site, will run both  
> standalone and as a web browser plugin (and the plugin is run in a  
> sandbox for protection, etc.). It would be great to have this  
> preinstalled on the Ubuntu disk.
>
> It might be worthwhile to actually have two different logos to  
> distinguish the two systems for the two sets of users?

Indeed. I think that lot of people are confused. But it would be  
great to have squeak and etoy on Ubuntu :)
We could keep the mouse for etoy and have a competition for getting  
one of Squeak.

Stef

>
> Cheers,
>
> Alan
>
> At 02:39 PM 3/24/2006, Bryce Kampjes wrote:
>> Alan Kay writes:
>>  > Just curious as to why this would be an issue. Squeak works  
>> fine on any
>>  > number of Linux systems, why would there be any special  
>> difficulties with
>>  > Ubuntu?
>>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Squeak when manually installed works fine in Ubuntu. What I'd like is
>> to see Squeak installed from the Ubuntu distribution working
>> well. This is so people with minimal Unix expertise and no prior
>> Squeak experience can get started easily in Squeak while running
>> Ubuntu.
>>
>> Imagine you're a non-technical teacher running Ubuntu (yes Ubuntu is
>> targeting educational use), you've heard of Squeak and feel like
>> trying it out. Having it properly included in the distribution would
>> mean that you just need to ask the package manager to install Squeak
>> then start using it. The package will create the appropriate menu
>> items and desktop short cuts.
>>
>> Ubuntu tried to install Squeak in Breezy Badger, their last release.
>> They forgot to add an image to their packages. This meant that Squeak
>> didn't work. People did try Squeak because it was in Breezy. I know
>> this because some of them asked on #squeak-dev about how to get  
>> Squeak
>> running. Many more probably just gave up without saying anything.
>>
>> The Ubuntu packagers are convinced that Squeak should be included
>> because of it's educational value. But the packagers are not  
>> Squeakers
>> or even Smalltalkers which means working with images is foreign to
>> them. The Squeak install just needs to be tested while there's still
>> time to fix bugs, and if there are issues they may need help  
>> resolving
>> them. We have less than three weeks to make sure it works before  
>> their
>> next release will be frozen.
>>
>> The issue is about getting Squeak running flawlessly in a major Linux
>> distribution. It's about reducing the barriers to join our community.
>> We now have a great opportunity to get Squeak included and working in
>> a major Linux distribution, let's make the most of it.
>>
>> Bryce
>
>
>


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Re: Testing Squeak in Ubuntu - Dapper Drake.

Alan Kay
An odd bit of history is that "Squeak" was originally my name for the
"media system we were going to make (Etoys)" in Smalltalk, not for the
Smalltalk we made as a vehicle. But early on we needed at name for the
Smalltalk we were making, and Squeak came to mean that system instead of Etoys.

Cheers,

Alan

--

At 12:47 AM 3/25/2006, stéphane ducasse wrote:

>>I see.
>>
>>One thing to think about here is "Squeak" and "Squeak Etoys" as
>>separate things for somewhat different users (this is why we have
>>separate websites).
>>
>>The Etoys, when downloaded from the Squeakland site, will run both
>>standalone and as a web browser plugin (and the plugin is run in a
>>sandbox for protection, etc.). It would be great to have this
>>preinstalled on the Ubuntu disk.
>>
>>It might be worthwhile to actually have two different logos to
>>distinguish the two systems for the two sets of users?
>
>Indeed. I think that lot of people are confused. But it would be
>great to have squeak and etoy on Ubuntu :)
>We could keep the mouse for etoy and have a competition for getting
>one of Squeak.
>
>Stef
>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>At 02:39 PM 3/24/2006, Bryce Kampjes wrote:
>>>Alan Kay writes:
>>>  > Just curious as to why this would be an issue. Squeak works
>>>fine on any
>>>  > number of Linux systems, why would there be any special
>>>difficulties with
>>>  > Ubuntu?
>>>
>>>Hi Alan,
>>>
>>>Squeak when manually installed works fine in Ubuntu. What I'd like is
>>>to see Squeak installed from the Ubuntu distribution working
>>>well. This is so people with minimal Unix expertise and no prior
>>>Squeak experience can get started easily in Squeak while running
>>>Ubuntu.
>>>
>>>Imagine you're a non-technical teacher running Ubuntu (yes Ubuntu is
>>>targeting educational use), you've heard of Squeak and feel like
>>>trying it out. Having it properly included in the distribution would
>>>mean that you just need to ask the package manager to install Squeak
>>>then start using it. The package will create the appropriate menu
>>>items and desktop short cuts.
>>>
>>>Ubuntu tried to install Squeak in Breezy Badger, their last release.
>>>They forgot to add an image to their packages. This meant that Squeak
>>>didn't work. People did try Squeak because it was in Breezy. I know
>>>this because some of them asked on #squeak-dev about how to get
>>>Squeak
>>>running. Many more probably just gave up without saying anything.
>>>
>>>The Ubuntu packagers are convinced that Squeak should be included
>>>because of it's educational value. But the packagers are not
>>>Squeakers
>>>or even Smalltalkers which means working with images is foreign to
>>>them. The Squeak install just needs to be tested while there's still
>>>time to fix bugs, and if there are issues they may need help
>>>resolving
>>>them. We have less than three weeks to make sure it works before
>>>their
>>>next release will be frozen.
>>>
>>>The issue is about getting Squeak running flawlessly in a major Linux
>>>distribution. It's about reducing the barriers to join our community.
>>>We now have a great opportunity to get Squeak included and working in
>>>a major Linux distribution, let's make the most of it.
>>>
>>>Bryce
>>
>>
>