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tinchodias

TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

Hi all,

The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In such case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix. Through a special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think the use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may be it's time to remove this feature.

With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in some comments only, as examples.

We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're sure there were, but we couldn't.

So, the questions is:

Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in Pharo 5.0?

I think I can propose a slice.

Regards,

Martín

PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes and System-Changes.

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

Hi Martin,

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In such case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix. Through a special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think the use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may be it's time to remove this feature.

With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in some comments only, as examples.

We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're sure there were, but we couldn't.

So, the questions is:

Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in Pharo 5.0?

IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be removed. It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.

I think I can propose a slice.

Regards,
Martín
PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes and System-Changes.

_,,,^..^,,,_

best, Eliot

stepharo

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

eliot

Nobody defines urls in method comment anymore. In addition would prefer to have an explicit syntax as in Pillar or html to represent
an hyperlink. We could have
*Class>>#method* when pillar is not loaded and else a nicer representation.
ctrl-click on a class should jump on it already and we could map it to *Class>>#method*

In class comments we should use pillar and get a real text renderer.

Hi Martin,

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In such case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix. Through a special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think the use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may be it's time to remove this feature.

With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in some comments only, as examples.

We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're sure there were, but we couldn't.

So, the questions is:

Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in Pharo 5.0?

IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be removed. It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.

I think I can propose a slice.

Regards,

Martín

PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes and System-Changes.

--

_,,,^..^,,,_

best, Eliot

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 4, 2015, at 1:33 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:

eliot

Nobody defines urls in method comment anymore.

I do. Several places in the Cog JIT contain irks to specification documents. I don't care how its implemented (providing it's preserved in text, or maybe have the pretty-printer scan comments for http://. But it is sad that we can't have hyperlinks in text.

Look I know the implementation stinks, but it can be fixed. But if the functionality is lost the system is weakened. Instead of asking what you can get rid if why not ask what you can reimplement or enhance more elegantly. Christ you're even using minis paced fonts. It's like the dark ages in there ;-)

In addition would prefer to have an explicit syntax as in Pillar or html to represent
an hyperlink. We could have
*Class>>#method* when pillar is not loaded and else a nicer representation.
ctrl-click on a class should jump on it already and we could map it to *Class>>#method*

In class comments we should use pillar and get a real text renderer.

Hi Martin,

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In such case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix. Through a special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think the use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may be it's time to remove this feature.

With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in some comments only, as examples.

We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're sure there were, but we couldn't.

So, the questions is:

Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in Pharo 5.0?

IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be removed. It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.

I think I can propose a slice.

Regards,

Martín

PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes and System-Changes.

--

_,,,^..^,,,_

best, Eliot

Nicolai Hess

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2

2015-09-04 21:27 GMT+02:00 Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]>:

Hi Martin,

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In such case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix. Through a special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think the use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may be it's time to remove this feature.

With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in some comments only, as examples.

We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're sure there were, but we couldn't.

So, the questions is:

Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in Pharo 5.0?

IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be removed. It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.

I missed that too, why did we remove that?

I think I can propose a slice.

Regards,
Martín
PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes and System-Changes.

--
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot

Ben Coman

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Sep 4, 2015, at 1:33 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Nobody defines urls in method comment anymore.
>
> I do. Several places in the Cog JIT contain irks to specification
> documents. I don't care how its implemented (providing it's preserved in
> text, or maybe have the pretty-printer scan comments for http://. But it is
> sad that we can't have hyperlinks in text.
>
> Look I know the implementation stinks, but it can be fixed. But if the
> functionality is lost the system is weakened. Instead of asking what you
> can get rid if why not ask what you can reimplement or enhance more
> elegantly.

Its a reasonable strategy to start the discussion at the extreme end
and work back from there :) But if its being used we should think
harder about it. What alternatives/workarounds are there?

First just to clarify, the aim is to remove Text from the image for
the boot-strap?

1. Save the text internally as a string in the stream format and
up-convert to Text only when its being displayed? But I guess these
styles aren't restricted to just occurring in comments and maybe cause
problem for compilation ??

2. As a stepping stone, introduce a TextPlaceholder class within
minimal interface required by compilation which simply strips out all
styles when Text is missing from the Image. When Text is present it
#becomes back to it. Maybe risks loosing styles editing is done on
the raw-stream-format. Maybe any editor would show the raw ]style[
and the compiler asks for #source which strips styles out.

3. Introduce Pillar and convert across. What are the requirements?
a. URLs
b. Class/method links
c. Would you expect that Pillar can only appear in comments? Or
in-line with code?
d. Colouring?
...?

btw, I haven't come across this before. Can someone point me to some
url & styled code where I can have a look at it

cheers -ben

> Christ you're even using minis paced fonts. It's like the dark
> ages in there ;-)
>
> In addition would prefer to have an explicit syntax as in Pillar or html to
> represent
> an hyperlink. We could have
> *Class>>#method* when pillar is not loaded and else a nicer
> representation.
> ctrl-click on a class should jump on it already and we could map it to
> *Class>>#method*
>
> In class comments we should use pillar and get a real text renderer.
>
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In such
>> case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix. Through a
>> special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think the
>> use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I
>> understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may be it's
>> time to remove this feature.
>>
>> With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes
>> files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in some
>> comments only, as examples.
>>
>> We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're sure
>> there were, but we couldn't.
>>
>> So, the questions is:
>>
>> Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in
>> Pharo 5.0?
>
>
> IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method
> references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be removed.
> It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.
>
>>
>>
>> I think I can propose a slice.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martín
>> PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes and
>> System-Changes.
>
>
>
>
> --
> _,,,^..^,,,_
> best, Eliot
>
>

tinchodias

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

Hi all

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 1:33 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Nobody defines urls in method comment anymore.
>>
>> I do. Several places in the Cog JIT contain irks to specification
>> documents. I don't care how its implemented (providing it's preserved in
>> text, or maybe have the pretty-printer scan comments for http://. But it is
>> sad that we can't have hyperlinks in text.
>>
>> Look I know the implementation stinks, but it can be fixed. But if the
>> functionality is lost the system is weakened. Instead of asking what you
>> can get rid if why not ask what you can reimplement or enhance more
>> elegantly.
>
> Its a reasonable strategy to start the discussion at the extreme end
> and work back from there :) But if its being used we should think
> harder about it. What alternatives/workarounds are there?
>
> First just to clarify, the aim is to remove Text from the image for
> the boot-strap?

Yes :) I heard that we want to do cut the dependency to Text-Core, so
I browsed how to do it.

Ben, there is an explanation about ]style[ in the class comment of RemoteString.

Eliot, I didn't thought that somebody was using Text. In fact, I don't
know how to do it in Pharo... how do you do?
I found that ChangeRecord>>fileIn uses #newTextChunk to parse, but I
just tested filing-in the attached .st file and it doesn't work. I
guess the new CodeImporter replaced the ChangeRecord implementation,
and it raises an error when ]style[.

Martín

>
> 1. Save the text internally as a string in the stream format and
> up-convert to Text only when its being displayed? But I guess these
> styles aren't restricted to just occurring in comments and maybe cause
> problem for compilation ??
>
> 2. As a stepping stone, introduce a TextPlaceholder class within
> minimal interface required by compilation which simply strips out all
> styles when Text is missing from the Image. When Text is present it
> #becomes back to it. Maybe risks loosing styles editing is done on
> the raw-stream-format. Maybe any editor would show the raw ]style[
> and the compiler asks for #source which strips styles out.
>
> 3. Introduce Pillar and convert across. What are the requirements?
> a. URLs
> b. Class/method links
> c. Would you expect that Pillar can only appear in comments? Or
> in-line with code?
> d. Colouring?
> ...?
>
> btw, I haven't come across this before. Can someone point me to some
> url & styled code where I can have a look at it
>
> cheers -ben
>
>> Christ you're even using minis paced fonts. It's like the dark
>> ages in there ;-)
>>
>> In addition would prefer to have an explicit syntax as in Pillar or html to
>> represent
>> an hyperlink. We could have
>> *Class>>#method* when pillar is not loaded and else a nicer
>> representation.
>> ctrl-click on a class should jump on it already and we could map it to
>> *Class>>#method*
>>
>> In class comments we should use pillar and get a real text renderer.
>>
>>
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In such
>>> case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix. Through a
>>> special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think the
>>> use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I
>>> understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may be it's
>>> time to remove this feature.
>>>
>>> With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes
>>> files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in some
>>> comments only, as examples.
>>>
>>> We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're sure
>>> there were, but we couldn't.
>>>
>>> So, the questions is:
>>>
>>> Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in
>>> Pharo 5.0?
>>
>>
>> IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method
>> references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be removed.
>> It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I can propose a slice.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Martín
>>> PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes and
>>> System-Changes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _,,,^..^,,,_
>> best, Eliot
>>
>>
>

HelpOnHelp class-example.st (384 bytes) Download Attachment

Nicolai Hess

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

The same for the ]lang[ tag (see issue 15750)

2015-09-05 12:06 GMT+02:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:

Hi all

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 1:33 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Nobody defines urls in method comment anymore.
>>
>> I do. Several places in the Cog JIT contain irks to specification
>> documents. I don't care how its implemented (providing it's preserved in
>> text, or maybe have the pretty-printer scan comments for http://. But it is
>> sad that we can't have hyperlinks in text.
>>
>> Look I know the implementation stinks, but it can be fixed. But if the
>> functionality is lost the system is weakened. Instead of asking what you
>> can get rid if why not ask what you can reimplement or enhance more
>> elegantly.
>
> Its a reasonable strategy to start the discussion at the extreme end
> and work back from there :) But if its being used we should think
> harder about it. What alternatives/workarounds are there?
>
> First just to clarify, the aim is to remove Text from the image for
> the boot-strap?

Yes :) I heard that we want to do cut the dependency to Text-Core, so
I browsed how to do it.

Ben, there is an explanation about ]style[ in the class comment of RemoteString.

Eliot, I didn't thought that somebody was using Text. In fact, I don't
know how to do it in Pharo... how do you do?
I found that ChangeRecord>>fileIn uses #newTextChunk to parse, but I
just tested filing-in the attached .st file and it doesn't work. I
guess the new CodeImporter replaced the ChangeRecord implementation,
and it raises an error when ]style[.

Martín

>
> 1. Save the text internally as a string in the stream format and
> up-convert to Text only when its being displayed? But I guess these
> styles aren't restricted to just occurring in comments and maybe cause
> problem for compilation ??
>
> 2. As a stepping stone, introduce a TextPlaceholder class within
> minimal interface required by compilation which simply strips out all
> styles when Text is missing from the Image. When Text is present it
> #becomes back to it. Maybe risks loosing styles editing is done on
> the raw-stream-format. Maybe any editor would show the raw ]style[
> and the compiler asks for #source which strips styles out.
>
> 3. Introduce Pillar and convert across. What are the requirements?
> a. URLs
> b. Class/method links
> c. Would you expect that Pillar can only appear in comments? Or
> in-line with code?
> d. Colouring?
> ...?
>
> btw, I haven't come across this before. Can someone point me to some
> url & styled code where I can have a look at it
>
> cheers -ben
>
>> Christ you're even using minis paced fonts. It's like the dark
>> ages in there ;-)
>>
>> In addition would prefer to have an explicit syntax as in Pillar or html to
>> represent
>> an hyperlink. We could have
>> *Class>>#method* when pillar is not loaded and else a nicer
>> representation.
>> ctrl-click on a class should jump on it already and we could map it to
>> *Class>>#method*
>>
>> In class comments we should use pillar and get a real text renderer.
>>
>>
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In such
>>> case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix. Through a
>>> special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think the
>>> use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I
>>> understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may be it's
>>> time to remove this feature.
>>>
>>> With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes
>>> files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in some
>>> comments only, as examples.
>>>
>>> We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're sure
>>> there were, but we couldn't.
>>>
>>> So, the questions is:
>>>
>>> Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in
>>> Pharo 5.0?
>>
>>
>> IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method
>> references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be removed.
>> It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I can propose a slice.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Martín
>>> PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes and
>>> System-Changes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _,,,^..^,,,_
>> best, Eliot
>>
>>
>

tinchodias

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The same for the ]lang[ tag (see issue 15750)

Ok. But I still don't know how to add a url to a method's source code
or comment from the UI.

I mean, people with a non-English keyboard can produce source code
with ]lang[, but how can I produce a ]style[ ?

Martín

>
> 2015-09-05 12:06 GMT+02:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sep 4, 2015, at 1:33 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Nobody defines urls in method comment anymore.
>> >>
>> >> I do. Several places in the Cog JIT contain irks to specification
>> >> documents. I don't care how its implemented (providing it's preserved
>> >> in
>> >> text, or maybe have the pretty-printer scan comments for http://. But
>> >> it is
>> >> sad that we can't have hyperlinks in text.
>> >>
>> >> Look I know the implementation stinks, but it can be fixed. But if the
>> >> functionality is lost the system is weakened. Instead of asking what
>> >> you
>> >> can get rid if why not ask what you can reimplement or enhance more
>> >> elegantly.
>> >
>> > Its a reasonable strategy to start the discussion at the extreme end
>> > and work back from there :) But if its being used we should think
>> > harder about it. What alternatives/workarounds are there?
>> >
>> > First just to clarify, the aim is to remove Text from the image for
>> > the boot-strap?
>>
>> Yes :) I heard that we want to do cut the dependency to Text-Core, so
>> I browsed how to do it.
>>
>> Ben, there is an explanation about ]style[ in the class comment of
>> RemoteString.
>>
>> Eliot, I didn't thought that somebody was using Text. In fact, I don't
>> know how to do it in Pharo... how do you do?
>> I found that ChangeRecord>>fileIn uses #newTextChunk to parse, but I
>> just tested filing-in the attached .st file and it doesn't work. I
>> guess the new CodeImporter replaced the ChangeRecord implementation,
>> and it raises an error when ]style[.
>>
>> Martín
>>
>>
>> >
>> > 1. Save the text internally as a string in the stream format and
>> > up-convert to Text only when its being displayed? But I guess these
>> > styles aren't restricted to just occurring in comments and maybe cause
>> > problem for compilation ??
>> >
>> > 2. As a stepping stone, introduce a TextPlaceholder class within
>> > minimal interface required by compilation which simply strips out all
>> > styles when Text is missing from the Image. When Text is present it
>> > #becomes back to it. Maybe risks loosing styles editing is done on
>> > the raw-stream-format. Maybe any editor would show the raw ]style[
>> > and the compiler asks for #source which strips styles out.
>> >
>> > 3. Introduce Pillar and convert across. What are the requirements?
>> > a. URLs
>> > b. Class/method links
>> > c. Would you expect that Pillar can only appear in comments? Or
>> > in-line with code?
>> > d. Colouring?
>> > ...?
>> >
>> > btw, I haven't come across this before. Can someone point me to some
>> > url & styled code where I can have a look at it
>> >
>> > cheers -ben
>> >
>> >> Christ you're even using minis paced fonts. It's like the dark
>> >> ages in there ;-)
>> >>
>> >> In addition would prefer to have an explicit syntax as in Pillar or
>> >> html to
>> >> represent
>> >> an hyperlink. We could have
>> >> *Class>>#method* when pillar is not loaded and else a nicer
>> >> representation.
>> >> ctrl-click on a class should jump on it already and we could map it to
>> >> *Class>>#method*
>> >>
>> >> In class comments we should use pillar and get a real text renderer.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi Martin,
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In
>> >>> such
>> >>> case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix.
>> >>> Through a
>> >>> special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think
>> >>> the
>> >>> use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I
>> >>> understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may
>> >>> be it's
>> >>> time to remove this feature.
>> >>>
>> >>> With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes
>> >>> files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in
>> >>> some
>> >>> comments only, as examples.
>> >>>
>> >>> We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're
>> >>> sure
>> >>> there were, but we couldn't.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, the questions is:
>> >>>
>> >>> Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in
>> >>> Pharo 5.0?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method
>> >> references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be
>> >> removed.
>> >> It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I think I can propose a slice.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>> Martín
>> >>> PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes
>> >>> and
>> >>> System-Changes.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> _,,,^..^,,,_
>> >> best, Eliot
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>
>

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

In reply to this post by tinchodias

Hi Martin,

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 5, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 1:33 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Nobody defines urls in method comment anymore.
>>>
>>> I do. Several places in the Cog JIT contain irks to specification
>>> documents. I don't care how its implemented (providing it's preserved in
>>> text, or maybe have the pretty-printer scan comments for http://. But it is
>>> sad that we can't have hyperlinks in text.
>>>
>>> Look I know the implementation stinks, but it can be fixed. But if the
>>> functionality is lost the system is weakened. Instead of asking what you
>>> can get rid if why not ask what you can reimplement or enhance more
>>> elegantly.
>>
>> Its a reasonable strategy to start the discussion at the extreme end
>> and work back from there :) But if its being used we should think
>> harder about it. What alternatives/workarounds are there?
>>
>> First just to clarify, the aim is to remove Text from the image for
>> the boot-strap?
>
> Yes :) I heard that we want to do cut the dependency to Text-Core, so
> I browsed how to do it.
>
> Ben, there is an explanation about ]style[ in the class comment of RemoteString.
>
> Eliot, I didn't thought that somebody was using Text. In fact, I don't
> know how to do it in Pharo... how do you do?

I develop the VM in Squeak. There's a menu pick in the squeak text editor that lets you do it. In the hierarchy of emphasis types there's a class called something like TextURL. I'll take a look soon and check.

> I found that ChangeRecord>>fileIn uses #newTextChunk to parse, but I
> just tested filing-in the attached .st file and it doesn't work. I
> guess the new CodeImporter replaced the ChangeRecord implementation,
> and it raises an error when ]style[.
>
> Martín
>
>
>>
>> 1. Save the text internally as a string in the stream format and
>> up-convert to Text only when its being displayed? But I guess these
>> styles aren't restricted to just occurring in comments and maybe cause
>> problem for compilation ??
>>
>> 2. As a stepping stone, introduce a TextPlaceholder class within
>> minimal interface required by compilation which simply strips out all
>> styles when Text is missing from the Image. When Text is present it
>> #becomes back to it. Maybe risks loosing styles editing is done on
>> the raw-stream-format. Maybe any editor would show the raw ]style[
>> and the compiler asks for #source which strips styles out.
>>
>> 3. Introduce Pillar and convert across. What are the requirements?
>> a. URLs
>> b. Class/method links
>> c. Would you expect that Pillar can only appear in comments? Or
>> in-line with code?
>> d. Colouring?
>> ...?
>>
>> btw, I haven't come across this before. Can someone point me to some
>> url & styled code where I can have a look at it
>>
>> cheers -ben
>>
>>> Christ you're even using minis paced fonts. It's like the dark
>>> ages in there ;-)
>>>
>>> In addition would prefer to have an explicit syntax as in Pillar or html to
>>> represent
>>> an hyperlink. We could have
>>> *Class>>#method* when pillar is not loaded and else a nicer
>>> representation.
>>> ctrl-click on a class should jump on it already and we could map it to
>>> *Class>>#method*
>>>
>>> In class comments we should use pillar and get a real text renderer.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Martin,
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In such
>>>> case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix. Through a
>>>> special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think the
>>>> use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I
>>>> understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may be it's
>>>> time to remove this feature.
>>>>
>>>> With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes
>>>> files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in some
>>>> comments only, as examples.
>>>>
>>>> We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're sure
>>>> there were, but we couldn't.
>>>>
>>>> So, the questions is:
>>>>
>>>> Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in
>>>> Pharo 5.0?
>>>
>>>
>>> IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method
>>> references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be removed.
>>> It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think I can propose a slice.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Martín
>>>> PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes and
>>>> System-Changes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> _,,,^..^,,,_
>>> best, Eliot
> <HelpOnHelp class-example.st>

Nicolai Hess

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

In reply to this post by tinchodias

2015-09-08 11:03 GMT+02:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The same for the ]lang[ tag (see issue 15750)

Ok. But I still don't know how to add a url to a method's source code
or comment from the UI.

I mean, people with a non-English keyboard can produce source code
with ]lang[, but how can I produce a ]style[ ?

Hi Martin,

In squeak, you can open a "choose style" dialog (select some text and use shortcut cmd+6).

This lets you choose a text color or text links.

For example, this is working in the class comment editor too, you can open the comment for

class Morph, select a word like "Rectangle" and put a link to that class definition.

This style attributes are first only a part of the Text instance, but saving or file out the class definition

will include this style attributes with the ]style[ tag.

Writing the style code text is not supported in pharo anymore.

Changing the style (color and text links) with cmd+6 does not work in Rubrics text components anymore.

It is working with the old PluggableTextMorph (but only color attributes - no links).

Reading Text with style attributes is still working in Pharo (only color and emphasis, no text links).

For example, put this "styled" text in a Workspace and inspect it:

'Red Gree Blue!
]style[(3 1 4 1 4)f1cred;b,f1b,f1cgreen;b,f1b,f1cblue;b!' readStream nextChunkText

Martín

>
> 2015-09-05 12:06 GMT+02:00 Martin Dias <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sep 4, 2015, at 1:33 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Nobody defines urls in method comment anymore.
>> >>
>> >> I do. Several places in the Cog JIT contain irks to specification
>> >> documents. I don't care how its implemented (providing it's preserved
>> >> in
>> >> text, or maybe have the pretty-printer scan comments for http://. But
>> >> it is
>> >> sad that we can't have hyperlinks in text.
>> >>
>> >> Look I know the implementation stinks, but it can be fixed. But if the
>> >> functionality is lost the system is weakened. Instead of asking what
>> >> you
>> >> can get rid if why not ask what you can reimplement or enhance more
>> >> elegantly.
>> >
>> > Its a reasonable strategy to start the discussion at the extreme end
>> > and work back from there :) But if its being used we should think
>> > harder about it. What alternatives/workarounds are there?
>> >
>> > First just to clarify, the aim is to remove Text from the image for
>> > the boot-strap?
>>
>> Yes :) I heard that we want to do cut the dependency to Text-Core, so
>> I browsed how to do it.
>>
>> Ben, there is an explanation about ]style[ in the class comment of
>> RemoteString.
>>
>> Eliot, I didn't thought that somebody was using Text. In fact, I don't
>> know how to do it in Pharo... how do you do?
>> I found that ChangeRecord>>fileIn uses #newTextChunk to parse, but I
>> just tested filing-in the attached .st file and it doesn't work. I
>> guess the new CodeImporter replaced the ChangeRecord implementation,
>> and it raises an error when ]style[.
>>
>> Martín
>>
>>
>> >
>> > 1. Save the text internally as a string in the stream format and
>> > up-convert to Text only when its being displayed? But I guess these
>> > styles aren't restricted to just occurring in comments and maybe cause
>> > problem for compilation ??
>> >
>> > 2. As a stepping stone, introduce a TextPlaceholder class within
>> > minimal interface required by compilation which simply strips out all
>> > styles when Text is missing from the Image. When Text is present it
>> > #becomes back to it. Maybe risks loosing styles editing is done on
>> > the raw-stream-format. Maybe any editor would show the raw ]style[
>> > and the compiler asks for #source which strips styles out.
>> >
>> > 3. Introduce Pillar and convert across. What are the requirements?
>> > a. URLs
>> > b. Class/method links
>> > c. Would you expect that Pillar can only appear in comments? Or
>> > in-line with code?
>> > d. Colouring?
>> > ...?
>> >
>> > btw, I haven't come across this before. Can someone point me to some
>> > url & styled code where I can have a look at it
>> >
>> > cheers -ben
>> >
>> >> Christ you're even using minis paced fonts. It's like the dark
>> >> ages in there ;-)
>> >>
>> >> In addition would prefer to have an explicit syntax as in Pillar or
>> >> html to
>> >> represent
>> >> an hyperlink. We could have
>> >> *Class>>#method* when pillar is not loaded and else a nicer
>> >> representation.
>> >> ctrl-click on a class should jump on it already and we could map it to
>> >> *Class>>#method*
>> >>
>> >> In class comments we should use pillar and get a real text renderer.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi Martin,
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Martin Dias <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> The source code of a method could be a Text, with TextAttributes. In
>> >>> such
>> >>> case, it will be written down to a stream with a "]style[" suffix.
>> >>> Through a
>> >>> special parsing, the system can reconstruct the original Text. I think
>> >>> the
>> >>> use of Text in source code or class comments is discouraged, but I
>> >>> understand we kept support for some backward compatibility. Now, may
>> >>> be it's
>> >>> time to remove this feature.
>> >>>
>> >>> With Pablo, we looked for uses of ]style[ in the .sources and .changes
>> >>> files of a new Pharo 5.0, and there are no real uses. It appears in
>> >>> some
>> >>> comments only, as examples.
>> >>>
>> >>> We tried to find past discussions about this feature, because we're
>> >>> sure
>> >>> there were, but we couldn't.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, the questions is:
>> >>>
>> >>> Can we remove support for text in source code or class comments in
>> >>> Pharo 5.0?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> IIUC, ]style[ also supports things like embedding URL links and method
>> >> references in class comments. So I would request that it /not/ be
>> >> removed.
>> >> It is very useful to put clickable links in class comments.
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I think I can propose a slice.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>> Martín
>> >>> PS: I was trying to cut dependencies of Text-Core with System-Changes
>> >>> and
>> >>> System-Changes.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> _,,,^..^,,,_
>> >> best, Eliot
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>
>

Henrik Sperre Johansen

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

In reply to this post by tinchodias

> On 08 Sep 2015, at 11:03 , Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The same for the ]lang[ tag (see issue 15750)
>
> Ok. But I still don't know how to add a url to a method's source code
> or comment from the UI.
>
> I mean, people with a non-English keyboard can produce source code
> with ]lang[, but how can I produce a ]style[ ?
>
> Martín

The whole mechanism is quite broken in Pharo4 upwards:

signature.asc (859 bytes) Download Attachment

tinchodias

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Henrik Johansen
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> On 08 Sep 2015, at 11:03 , Martin Dias <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> The same for the ]lang[ tag (see issue 15750)
>>
>> Ok. But I still don't know how to add a url to a method's source code
>> or comment from the UI.
>>
>> I mean, people with a non-English keyboard can produce source code
>> with ]lang[, but how can I produce a ]style[ ?
>>
>> Martín
>
> The whole mechanism is quite broken in Pharo4 upwards:

Not sure what to do in Pharo: parse the Text or just ignore the
]style[, but at least file-in should not raise an error. I reported
it:

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16575/CodeImporter-doesn-t-parse-style-chunks

Martín

stepharo

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

In reply to this post by tinchodias

I think that having metadata (style) language and data (source code)
mixed together is a bad idea.
I never like the ]lang[ tag because it is a huge hack. It does not even
exist in the Smalltalk syntax!!!
We save code that the parser cannot parse. What we fun idea.
So people are bashing for backward compatibility and we remove a bad way
to encode
metadata then suddenly it looks like we were doing something bad.

Stef

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

Hi Stef,

> On Sep 21, 2015, at 2:53 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think that having metadata (style) language and data (source code) mixed together is a bad idea.
> I never like the ]lang[ tag because it is a huge hack. It does not even exist in the Smalltalk syntax!!!
> We save code that the parser cannot parse. What we fun idea.
> So people are bashing for backward compatibility and we remove a bad way to encode
> metadata then suddenly it looks like we were doing something bad.

It seems to me you are confusing functionality and implementation. Just because you don't like the implementation is no reason to lose the functionality. No implementation is perfect, so this path leads to a denuded system. The onus is on the community to reimplement things well, not throw things away just because the implementation is problematic. If I had chosen to implement Cog with a much nicer substrate then neither Squeak, nor Pharo nor Newspeak would have been able to benefit. Instead I was pragmatic and made sure Cig supported the existing requirements, not done platonic ideal. I wish you would adopt as a principle that functionality be retained as you are cleaning up Pharo. Instead I see useful fictional its discarded because if scruples and I find it "unpleasant".

_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)

>
> Stef
>

ccrraaiigg

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

(autocorrect-unmangled version... ;)

Eliot writes:

> ...I was pragmatic and made sure Cog supported the existing
> requirements, not some platonic ideal. I wish you would adopt as a
> principle that functionality be retained as you are cleaning up
> Pharo. Instead I see useful functionality is discarded because of
> scruples and I find it "unpleasant".

-C

--
Craig Latta
netjam.org
+31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok)
+ 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

In reply to this post by stepharo

> On 21 Sep 2015, at 23:53, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I think that having metadata (style) language and data (source code) mixed together is a bad idea.
> I never like the ]lang[ tag because it is a huge hack. It does not even exist in the Smalltalk syntax!!!
> We save code that the parser cannot parse. What we fun idea.
> So people are bashing for backward compatibility and we remove a bad way to encode
> metadata then suddenly it looks like we were doing something bad.
>
> Stef

I am with Stef, it is a silly idea to mix the two. Nobody uses this in Pharo. Cleaning up means simplifying too.

philippe.back@highoctane.be

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

Le 22 sept. 2015 07:40, "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>
> > On 21 Sep 2015, at 23:53, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I think that having metadata (style) language and data (source code) mixed together is a bad idea.
> > I never like the ]lang[ tag because it is a huge hack. It does not even exist in the Smalltalk syntax!!!
> > We save code that the parser cannot parse. What we fun idea.
> > So people are bashing for backward compatibility and we remove a bad way to encode
> > metadata then suddenly it looks like we were doing something bad.
> >
> > Stef
>
> I am with Stef, it is a silly idea to mix the two. Nobody uses this in Pharo. Cleaning up means simplifying too.

In the code no. But in the comments, that would be good to have back. In color form. As we can write pillar class comments, can't we render them ? Moose as an editor/viewer for pillar files.

Phil

>
>

demarey

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

Le 22 sept. 2015 à 07:49, [hidden email] a écrit :

Le 22 sept. 2015 07:40, "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>
> > On 21 Sep 2015, at 23:53, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I think that having metadata (style) language and data (source code) mixed together is a bad idea.
> > I never like the ]lang[ tag because it is a huge hack. It does not even exist in the Smalltalk syntax!!!
> > We save code that the parser cannot parse. What we fun idea.
> > So people are bashing for backward compatibility and we remove a bad way to encode
> > metadata then suddenly it looks like we were doing something bad.
> >
> > Stef
>
> I am with Stef, it is a silly idea to mix the two. Nobody uses this in Pharo. Cleaning up means simplifying too.
In the code no. But in the comments, that would be good to have back. In color form. As we can write pillar class comments, can't we render them ? Moose as an editor/viewer for pillar files

Yes, it is where we want to go: use Pillar for styled comments.

Once we have that, we can remove Text styling from source code / comments.

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Re: TextAttributes in source code or class comment?

> On 22 Sep 2015, at 08:47, Christophe Demarey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Le 22 sept. 2015 à 07:49, [hidden email] a écrit :
>
>>
>> Le 22 sept. 2015 07:40, "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>> >
>> >
>> > > On 21 Sep 2015, at 23:53, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I think that having metadata (style) language and data (source code) mixed together is a bad idea.
>> > > I never like the ]lang[ tag because it is a huge hack. It does not even exist in the Smalltalk syntax!!!
>> > > We save code that the parser cannot parse. What we fun idea.
>> > > So people are bashing for backward compatibility and we remove a bad way to encode
>> > > metadata then suddenly it looks like we were doing something bad.
>> > >
>> > > Stef
>> >
>> > I am with Stef, it is a silly idea to mix the two. Nobody uses this in Pharo. Cleaning up means simplifying too.
>>
>> In the code no. But in the comments, that would be good to have back. In color form. As we can write pillar class comments, can't we render them ? Moose as an editor/viewer for pillar files
>>
>>
>
> Yes, it is where we want to go: use Pillar for styled comments.
> Once we have that, we can remove Text styling from source code / comments.

Yes, inside a comment, which should be totally opaque from a language syntax standpoint, you can do whatever you want: HTML, Markdown, Pillar, Pier, ...