Thanks for Pharo

> Sometimes conversations revolve around perceived deficiencies in Pharo.
> What Pharo is missing. Or what Pharo doesn't do as well as my previous
> language, my favorite language, my other language, etc... These
> conversations are necessary to understand where Pharo is and to provide
> understanding on where Pharo needs some work.
>
> However, not enough gets said sometimes for all the goodness Pharo
> already provides and thanks to all of those who have contributed over
> the years to Smalltalk/Pharo.
>
> I know sometimes we get stuck in the minutiae and lose the big picture.
>
> I just want to say thanks to all that have contributed to Pharo in big
> and small way. Thank you.
>
> A special thanks to Stef, Marcus and company who have been working hard
> on this all the way back when it was still Squeak. Who had a vision for
> a clean, empowering, business ready, vision fulfilling Smalltalk
> inspired tool we call Pharo. Thanks.
>
> And a thanks to Eliot and all who contribute on the VM side of things.
> Enabling us to have a nicely performing and stable vm to run the Pharo
> image.
>
> My apologies for not naming everyone who deserves thanks. I intend no
> offense to anyone not named, but also deserving. Your names are included
> in all the contributor documentation. Thanks.
>
> And while I am being thankful, which is a good habit for all of us to be
> in. Being thankful not only improves the spirits of those being thanked.
> But those of us who are grateful are the biggest beneficiaries.
>
> I want to take time to appreciate some things in Pharo that make us
> appreciate having a tool like Pharo and which distinguishes itself from
> other languages and environments. I think these things either
> distinguish themselves either in the relative uniqueness or in quality
> of their implementation. They are not necessarily distinguishing from
> other Smalltalks but from other non-Smalltalk languages.
>
>
>
> Superior persistent live object environment.
> This is the game changer and affects and enables all other benefits.
> """I'm not complaining. I know that there is a good chance that we break
> the system when improving it. I have no problem with that and I prefer a
> living system with some bugs
> for a while than a dead system with no bug"""  Stef - Sept. 7, 2015
>
>
> IDE, debugging and refactoring, all live, all the time.
>
>
> Because of the truly persistent live environment, there is no concept of
> shutdown, restart. We only know hibernate and resume. This is to use OS
> terms. For me this is an amazing boost to productivity. I can at any
> time save my image. Even close my saved image and resume exactly where I
> stopped. At any time, on any supported  OS, on any machine. Powerful.
>
> There truly is no edit, compile, run cycle similar to other languages,
> even dynamically typed languages with REPLs.
> If I am not in Pharo, even if that language has an amazing notebook or
> repl available. It is nothing like coding in the live environment. The
> separation of editor and the compiler and/or application or VM makes
> development not as smooth and fluid. Even if I can enter and execute
> code in a notebook or repl to explore and learn in a version of a live
> environment. I still at some point have to leave my editing environment
> and write, edit and save my source code. And yes there are languages,
> editors, IDEs and tools that attempt to close the gap. But no, there
> still is a significant gap. The edited source code is the only thing
> that persists. Everything that gets executed in the repl or notebook is
> transient and will go away.
>
> MIT, equivalent or better licensed ecosystem.
>
> For me these are game changers. They set a standard by which I view any
> other programming experience. Thusly all other programming experience
> falls far short.
>
> Whenever I (we) experience a present weakness in Pharo. Remember the above.
> Not only does Pharo have these distinguishing factors. I do not know of
> any language or environment which even has a culture or worldview of
> programming which seeks to bring these features to their favored
> language or tools.
>
> Every time I have to restart my computer I think, Smalltalk solved this
> decades ago. Ugh!!!
> Where is my Pharo machine. :)
>
> If you have any Pharo distinctives that you appreciate and would like to
> share. Reply and let us know.
> What I mean by distinctive is something that Pharo (or Smalltalk) has
> that is either not in other languages or is in general significantly
> inferior. Especially those that other languages have no vision to ever
> have. It just isn't a part of who they are.
>
> If we keep these things before us as we work through the tedious work of
> cleaning the image, repairing fail attempts at various things. Or
> anything that may be a frustration for the moment, but is temporary.
> Remember what we gain and are blessed with having, that we would lose
> any where else. Or at a minimum have a far inferior substitute. And look
> forward to what we will have as these things become complete. The future
> is ours. Let's enjoy the journey.
>
> Just some thoughts in my head I wanted to let out.
> This is reminder to me. If any of you are blessed and inspired, that is
> a plus.
>
> Thanks and Shalom.
>
> Jimmie

> Sometimes conversations revolve around perceived deficiencies in Pharo. What
> Pharo is missing. Or what Pharo doesn't do as well as my previous language,
> my favorite language, my other language, etc... These conversations are
> necessary to understand where Pharo is and to provide understanding on where
> Pharo needs some work.
>
> However, not enough gets said sometimes for all the goodness Pharo already
> provides and thanks to all of those who have contributed over the years to
> Smalltalk/Pharo.
>
> I know sometimes we get stuck in the minutiae and lose the big picture.
>
> I just want to say thanks to all that have contributed to Pharo in big and
> small way. Thank you.
>
> A special thanks to Stef, Marcus and company who have been working hard on
> this all the way back when it was still Squeak. Who had a vision for a
> clean, empowering, business ready, vision fulfilling Smalltalk inspired tool
> we call Pharo. Thanks.

> I want to take time to appreciate some things in Pharo that make us
> appreciate having a tool like Pharo and which distinguishes itself from
> other languages and environments. I think these things either distinguish
> themselves either in the relative uniqueness or in quality of their
> implementation. They are not necessarily distinguishing from other
> Smalltalks but from other non-Smalltalk languages.
>
>
>
> Superior persistent live object environment.
> This is the game changer and affects and enables all other benefits.
>
> IDE, debugging and refactoring, all live, all the time.

> Sometimes conversations revolve around perceived deficiencies in
> Pharo. What Pharo is missing. Or what Pharo doesn't do as well as my
> previous language, my favorite language, my other language, etc...
> These conversations are necessary to understand where Pharo is and to
> provide understanding on where Pharo needs some work.
>
> However, not enough gets said sometimes for all the goodness Pharo
> already provides and thanks to all of those who have contributed over
> the years to Smalltalk/Pharo.
>
> I know sometimes we get stuck in the minutiae and lose the big picture.
>
> I just want to say thanks to all that have contributed to Pharo in big
> and small way. Thank you.
>
> A special thanks to Stef, Marcus and company who have been working
> hard on this all the way back when it was still Squeak. Who had a
> vision for a clean, empowering, business ready, vision fulfilling
> Smalltalk inspired tool we call Pharo. Thanks.
>
> And a thanks to Eliot and all who contribute on the VM side of things.
> Enabling us to have a nicely performing and stable vm to run the Pharo
> image.
>
> My apologies for not naming everyone who deserves thanks. I intend no
> offense to anyone not named, but also deserving. Your names are
> included in all the contributor documentation. Thanks.
>
> And while I am being thankful, which is a good habit for all of us to
> be in. Being thankful not only improves the spirits of those being
> thanked. But those of us who are grateful are the biggest beneficiaries.
>
> I want to take time to appreciate some things in Pharo that make us
> appreciate having a tool like Pharo and which distinguishes itself
> from other languages and environments. I think these things either
> distinguish themselves either in the relative uniqueness or in quality
> of their implementation. They are not necessarily distinguishing from
> other Smalltalks but from other non-Smalltalk languages.
>
>
>
> Superior persistent live object environment.
> This is the game changer and affects and enables all other benefits.
> """I'm not complaining. I know that there is a good chance that we break
> the system when improving it. I have no problem with that and I prefer
> a living system with some bugs
> for a while than a dead system with no bug"""  Stef - Sept. 7, 2015
>
>
> IDE, debugging and refactoring, all live, all the time.
>
>
> Because of the truly persistent live environment, there is no concept
> of shutdown, restart. We only know hibernate and resume. This is to
> use OS terms. For me this is an amazing boost to productivity. I can
> at any time save my image. Even close my saved image and resume
> exactly where I stopped. At any time, on any supported  OS, on any
> machine. Powerful.
>
> There truly is no edit, compile, run cycle similar to other languages,
> even dynamically typed languages with REPLs.
> If I am not in Pharo, even if that language has an amazing notebook or
> repl available. It is nothing like coding in the live environment. The
> separation of editor and the compiler and/or application or VM makes
> development not as smooth and fluid. Even if I can enter and execute
> code in a notebook or repl to explore and learn in a version of a live
> environment. I still at some point have to leave my editing
> environment and write, edit and save my source code. And yes there are
> languages, editors, IDEs and tools that attempt to close the gap. But
> no, there still is a significant gap. The edited source code is the
> only thing that persists. Everything that gets executed in the repl or
> notebook is transient and will go away.
>
> MIT, equivalent or better licensed ecosystem.
>
> For me these are game changers. They set a standard by which I view
> any other programming experience. Thusly all other programming
> experience falls far short.
>
> Whenever I (we) experience a present weakness in Pharo. Remember the
> above.
> Not only does Pharo have these distinguishing factors. I do not know
> of any language or environment which even has a culture or worldview
> of programming which seeks to bring these features to their favored
> language or tools.
>
> Every time I have to restart my computer I think, Smalltalk solved
> this decades ago. Ugh!!!
> Where is my Pharo machine. :)
>
> If you have any Pharo distinctives that you appreciate and would like
> to share. Reply and let us know.
> What I mean by distinctive is something that Pharo (or Smalltalk) has
> that is either not in other languages or is in general significantly
> inferior. Especially those that other languages have no vision to ever
> have. It just isn't a part of who they are.
>
> If we keep these things before us as we work through the tedious work
> of cleaning the image, repairing fail attempts at various things. Or
> anything that may be a frustration for the moment, but is temporary.
> Remember what we gain and are blessed with having, that we would lose
> any where else. Or at a minimum have a far inferior substitute. And
> look forward to what we will have as these things become complete. The
> future is ours. Let's enjoy the journey.
>
> Just some thoughts in my head I wanted to let out.
> This is reminder to me. If any of you are blessed and inspired, that
> is a plus.
>
> Thanks and Shalom.
>
> Jimmie
>
>
>
>
>

> Thanks very much for your thoughts Jimmie.  Day to day, its easy to
> take for granted what we have.
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 6:14 AM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Sometimes conversations revolve around perceived deficiencies in Pharo. What
>> Pharo is missing. Or what Pharo doesn't do as well as my previous language,
>> my favorite language, my other language, etc... These conversations are
>> necessary to understand where Pharo is and to provide understanding on where
>> Pharo needs some work.
>>
>> However, not enough gets said sometimes for all the goodness Pharo already
>> provides and thanks to all of those who have contributed over the years to
>> Smalltalk/Pharo.
>>
>> I know sometimes we get stuck in the minutiae and lose the big picture.
>>
>> I just want to say thanks to all that have contributed to Pharo in big and
>> small way. Thank you.
>>
>> A special thanks to Stef, Marcus and company who have been working hard on
>> this all the way back when it was still Squeak. Who had a vision for a
>> clean, empowering, business ready, vision fulfilling Smalltalk inspired tool
>> we call Pharo. Thanks.
>
> Stef's "Pharo Vision" [1] document was a big part of what drew me to
> Pharo.  Not necessarily what was in it, but more just that there was
> such a vision.
>
> [1] https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf

>> And a thanks to Eliot and all who contribute on the VM side of things.
>> Enabling us to have a nicely performing and stable vm to run the Pharo
>> image.
> ...
>> I want to take time to appreciate some things in Pharo that make us
>> appreciate having a tool like Pharo and which distinguishes itself from
>> other languages and environments. I think these things either distinguish
>> themselves either in the relative uniqueness or in quality of their
>> implementation. They are not necessarily distinguishing from other
>> Smalltalks but from other non-Smalltalk languages.
>>
>> Superior persistent live object environment.
>> This is the game changer and affects and enables all other benefits.
>>
>> IDE, debugging and refactoring, all live, all the time.
> The debugger (within a live environment) does it for me.  Its what
> make using Pharo fun.

>> Because of the truly persistent live environment, there is no concept of
>> shutdown, restart. We only know hibernate and resume. This is to use OS
>> terms. For me this is an amazing boost to productivity. I can at any time
>> save my image. Even close my saved image and resume exactly where I stopped.
>> At any time, on any supported  OS, on any machine. Powerful.
>>
>> There truly is no edit, compile, run cycle similar to other languages, even
>> dynamically typed languages with REPLs.
> I view that we do have an edit/compile/run loop, its just really tight loop!
> I recently had a passing thought we could market Pharo as REPL+.

> In addition:
>
> The ability for the system (and community culture) to evolve a live
> running system.  This is ideal for applications like control systems
> for industrial plants running 365x24.  For example an alumina refinery
> where kilometers of pipes carry fluids at 800 degree, which would
> solidify in the pipes if there was an 8hr power outage, which could
> essentially close the plant down permanently so you'd have to walk
> away from a billion dollar investment.   Another example might be
> space faring robots.  Pharo is not right now at the point where you
> might trust it for such an extreme purpose, but the potential is
> there.

> On 19 Oct 2015, at 15:39, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10/18/2015 11:51 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>> Thanks very much for your thoughts Jimmie.  Day to day, its easy to
>> take for granted what we have.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 6:14 AM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Sometimes conversations revolve around perceived deficiencies in Pharo. What
>>> Pharo is missing. Or what Pharo doesn't do as well as my previous language,
>>> my favorite language, my other language, etc... These conversations are
>>> necessary to understand where Pharo is and to provide understanding on where
>>> Pharo needs some work.
>>>
>>> However, not enough gets said sometimes for all the goodness Pharo already
>>> provides and thanks to all of those who have contributed over the years to
>>> Smalltalk/Pharo.
>>>
>>> I know sometimes we get stuck in the minutiae and lose the big picture.
>>>
>>> I just want to say thanks to all that have contributed to Pharo in big and
>>> small way. Thank you.
>>>
>>> A special thanks to Stef, Marcus and company who have been working hard on
>>> this all the way back when it was still Squeak. Who had a vision for a
>>> clean, empowering, business ready, vision fulfilling Smalltalk inspired tool
>>> we call Pharo. Thanks.
>>
>> Stef's "Pharo Vision" [1] document was a big part of what drew me to
>> Pharo.  Not necessarily what was in it, but more just that there was
>> such a vision.
>>
>> [1] https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf
>
> Absolutely. This is a very important thing. A vision that moves the community and project forward is exceptionally important.
>
> To me  a project without a vision statement or at least a roadmap is direction less and quite possible dying. Show me some life before I invest my time.

>> On 19 Oct 2015, at 15:39, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/18/2015 11:51 AM, Ben Coman wrote:
>>> Thanks very much for your thoughts Jimmie.  Day to day, its easy to
>>> take for granted what we have.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 6:14 AM, Jimmie Houchin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Sometimes conversations revolve around perceived deficiencies in Pharo. What
>>>> Pharo is missing. Or what Pharo doesn't do as well as my previous language,
>>>> my favorite language, my other language, etc... These conversations are
>>>> necessary to understand where Pharo is and to provide understanding on where
>>>> Pharo needs some work.
>>>>
>>>> However, not enough gets said sometimes for all the goodness Pharo already
>>>> provides and thanks to all of those who have contributed over the years to
>>>> Smalltalk/Pharo.
>>>>
>>>> I know sometimes we get stuck in the minutiae and lose the big picture.
>>>>
>>>> I just want to say thanks to all that have contributed to Pharo in big and
>>>> small way. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> A special thanks to Stef, Marcus and company who have been working hard on
>>>> this all the way back when it was still Squeak. Who had a vision for a
>>>> clean, empowering, business ready, vision fulfilling Smalltalk inspired tool
>>>> we call Pharo. Thanks.
>>> Stef's "Pharo Vision" [1] document was a big part of what drew me to
>>> Pharo.  Not necessarily what was in it, but more just that there was
>>> such a vision.
>>>
>>> [1] https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf
>> Absolutely. This is a very important thing. A vision that moves the community and project forward is exceptionally important.
>>
>> To me  a project without a vision statement or at least a roadmap is direction less and quite possible dying. Show me some life before I invest my time.
> We (Doru and me) will write a new roadmap over the next weeks… so many things are happening, we need to get the current
> planning and how everything fits into one document…
>
> Marcus

>
>
>>>
>>> There truly is no edit, compile, run cycle similar to other
>>> languages, even
>>> dynamically typed languages with REPLs.
>> I view that we do have an edit/compile/run loop, its just really
>> tight loop!
>> I recently had a passing thought we could market Pharo as REPL+.
>
> Here is what I was saying. In Pharo there is not separate tool for
> editing, then a different tool for compiling and running. Yes, there
> are distinct phases of process requiring editing, compiling and
> running in Pharo, But they all exist in a single process.
>
> In Pharo I can have multiple Workspaces/Playgrounds and multiple Code
> Browsers, Inspectors, Debuggers and Testing Tools all open at the same
> time. I can flow from one to another and they all be viewing, editing,
> executing, inspecting the same objects, instances.
>
> Where else can we have multiple editors, compilers, repls, and
> whatever tools, all operating on the same objects and instances?
>
> As wonderful as Jupyter may be, can it have multiple windows with a
> view into the same repl instance? Maybe? I don't know. But now throw
> into that picture your favorite editor or IDE. Can it have multiple
> files open and seamlessly edit the code running in that single repl
> instance? The same instance as is in the Jupyter.
>
> Even if you get all of those tools communicating via sockets or
> whatever to a single Python/Julia/??? instance. It is still a very
> poor comparison to the workflow in any Smalltalk.
>
> Then you get to the end of your workday. There is no save menu to
> persist the state of all of those tools and repl all working together.
>
> In Pharo, just one tool, Pharo. Everything exists inside Pharo.
> Wonderful.
>

>
> Absolutely. The already existent, persistent live environment is a
> powerful thing. The fact that we have code in Pharo that is decades
> old and has never been in a state disconnected from a live, running
> environment is amazing. Where else do we find that? What other
> software, programming language has a vision to provide such facility?
> Most everything else is designed to build something which you release
> and run. Release from your edit, build, compile to a run environment.
>
> Smalltalk and therefore Pharo is ontological and not merely a tool to
> build something external to itself. This is a huge difference.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology
>
> One of the things I find inspiring in the talks by Richard Hipp about
> SQLite is the level of the quality of the code in SQLite. That its
> file format is stable and guaranteed. That its codebase has complete
> test coverage. Coverage sufficient for its use in avionics systems.
> http://sqlite.org/testing.html
>
> I know Pharo is not going to be used in such a system. But it would be
> interesting if we can have decent coverage on the core or kernel as
> the everything get reduced to a buildable system. Then test coverage
> can more easily be applied on a system which is smaller and
> understandable. I have no concept of how you do the vm.
>

>> We (Doru and me) will write a new roadmap over the next weeks… so many things are happening, we need to get the current
>> planning and how everything fits into one document…
>>
>> Marcus
>
> Thank you both for doing this. It is a valuable asset to the community. It helps those of us who aren't driving the project to see where we are going and hopefully how we can help.
>
> Thank you both for all you do. I really enjoy your talk Nomads do not build Cathedrals.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcoy5gwUvOA
>

> Thank you both for doing this. It is a valuable asset to the
> community. It helps those of us who aren't driving the project to see
> where we are going and hopefully how we can help.
>
> Thank you both for all you do. I really enjoy your talk Nomads do not
> build Cathedrals.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcoy5gwUvOA
>
> I believe this is an important thing for people coming to Pharo to
> understand about Pharo, its vision and its processes.
>
> I also love Doru's videos. Very inspirational. Some of the shorts are
> so dramatic with graphics and sound, I almost feel like I need to turn
> the lights out and get some popcorn. :)

>
>> Thank you both for doing this. It is a valuable asset to the community. It
>> helps those of us who aren't driving the project to see where we are going
>> and hopefully how we can help.
>>
>> Thank you both for all you do. I really enjoy your talk Nomads do not
>> build Cathedrals.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcoy5gwUvOA
>>
>> I believe this is an important thing for people coming to Pharo to
>> understand about Pharo, its vision and its processes.
>>
>> I also love Doru's videos. Very inspirational. Some of the shorts are so
>> dramatic with graphics and sound, I almost feel like I need to turn the
>> lights out and get some popcorn. :)
>
>
> May be we should add a selected set of links on the web page with the Pharo
> vision :)