The Paradox of Choice
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I read this article
http://www.hiltmon.com/blog/2012/02/01/the-paradox-of-choice/ It would be fun to hear what other here think Etoys related to choices. Designing a environment as complex and flexible as Etoys is hard. Many problems are left to the user to solve. To get results can be frustrating and bewildering. Are Etoys to complex for users? Scratch is a much simpler system, yet much more used. Is it easier to be creative with fewer choices ? Karl _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 9:11 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I read this article > http://www.hiltmon.com/blog/2012/02/01/the-paradox-of-choice/ Yeah. More succinctly, "choice paralyses". Makes one wonder why everyone is so excited by the 100s of 1000s of Apps available for their iStuff. I guess people like the feeling that there is choice if they want it, even though they don't want it. But offering choices is different than offering the user/learning the ability to take control of the software and change it. Sure, KISS, but also make sure your tools are amenable to manipulation and *invite* that manipulation. Etoys does a reasonable job of the latter. -walter > > It would be fun to hear what other here think Etoys related to choices. > Designing a environment as complex and flexible as Etoys is hard. > Many problems are left to the user to solve. To get results can be > frustrating and bewildering. > Are Etoys to complex for users? > Scratch is a much simpler system, yet much more used. > > Is it easier to be creative with fewer choices ? > > Karl > _______________________________________________ > etoys-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg
On Saturday 04 Feb 2012 7:41:36 PM karl ramberg wrote:
> I read this article > http://www.hiltmon.com/blog/2012/02/01/the-paradox-of-choice/ > > It would be fun to hear what other here think Etoys related to choices. > Designing a environment as complex and flexible as Etoys is hard. > Many problems are left to the user to solve. To get results can be > frustrating and bewildering. > Are Etoys to complex for users? > Scratch is a much simpler system, yet much more used. IMHO, it is not about choices as much as affordances. Etoys is not intuitive enough. It takes a huge leap of faith to connect "eye" icon with the concept of scripting. How intuitive is this association? eye->view->viewer->tile collections->script->scripting. When a morph is deleted, it slides into Trash so the effect can be guessed. But when Paint button is clicked, there is no animation for the modal easel that pops up. This cartoonish easel is so out of place with the rest of Etoys. I have seen kids getting confused and continue to work in the onion skin as if it were a world. It takes considerable guidance for them to truly grasp the concept of painting an object into existence. Regards .. Subbu _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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In reply to this post by Walter Bender
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Walter Bender <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 9:11 AM, karl ramberg <[hidden email]> wrote: >> I read this article >> http://www.hiltmon.com/blog/2012/02/01/the-paradox-of-choice/ > > Yeah. More succinctly, "choice paralyses". > Makes one wonder why everyone is so excited by the 100s of 1000s of > Apps available for their iStuff. I guess people like the feeling that > there is choice if they want it, even though they don't want it. > > But offering choices is different than offering the user/learning the > ability to take control of the software and change it. Sure, KISS, but > also make sure your tools are amenable to manipulation and *invite* > that manipulation. Etoys does a reasonable job of the latter. I often think Etoys could use this and that feature, but then again, will adding more make it better or just add another layer of complexity ? I think many concepts in Etoys are good but I would like to know what are the biggest stumbling blocks? What are the weak points that make users give up out of frustration ? Are there any logical gaps that most users just can't get across ? Karl > > -walter > >> >> It would be fun to hear what other here think Etoys related to choices. >> Designing a environment as complex and flexible as Etoys is hard. >> Many problems are left to the user to solve. To get results can be >> frustrating and bewildering. >> Are Etoys to complex for users? >> Scratch is a much simpler system, yet much more used. >> >> Is it easier to be creative with fewer choices ? >> >> Karl >> _______________________________________________ >> etoys-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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In reply to this post by K K Subbu
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 5:37 PM, K. K. Subramaniam <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Saturday 04 Feb 2012 7:41:36 PM karl ramberg wrote: >> I read this article >> http://www.hiltmon.com/blog/2012/02/01/the-paradox-of-choice/ >> >> It would be fun to hear what other here think Etoys related to choices. >> Designing a environment as complex and flexible as Etoys is hard. >> Many problems are left to the user to solve. To get results can be >> frustrating and bewildering. >> Are Etoys to complex for users? >> Scratch is a much simpler system, yet much more used. > > IMHO, it is not about choices as much as affordances. Etoys is not intuitive > enough. It takes a huge leap of faith to connect "eye" icon with the concept > of scripting. How intuitive is this association? eye->view->viewer->tile > collections->script->scripting. > > When a morph is deleted, it slides into Trash so the effect can be guessed. But > when Paint button is clicked, there is no animation for the modal easel that > pops up. This cartoonish easel is so out of place with the rest of Etoys. I > have seen kids getting confused and continue to work in the onion skin as if > it were a world. It takes considerable guidance for them to truly grasp the > concept of painting an object into existence. > > Regards .. Subbu Good observations. Paint mode is quite confusing. I observed my kind using Etoys and they had a hard time grasping that they had to paint one object at a time. They wanted to paint the background and all the objects at the same time. Getting used to scripting tiles take some time. I remember struggling with the tiles and figuring out how to mix tiles from different Viewers together. And that I could change the receiver in the tiles. Karl _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev |
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