Smalltalk › Pharo › Pharo Smalltalk Users

The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

_‹ Previous Topic Next Topic _›

Classic

List

Threaded

13 messages Options

philippeback

The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

Hello,

As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions?

My current stack is:

Pharo 2.0

Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST)

Magritte 3

Twitter Bootstrap

+ a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage)

+ STOMP

+ Amber if needed

I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve.

Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc).

I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not NSA-backdoor-enabled")

This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets.

Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday morning for defending our position on a significant project).

Phil

Ben Coman

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

[hidden email] wrote:

> Hello,
>
> As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you
> guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions?
>
> My current stack is:
>
> Pharo 2.0
> Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST)
> Magritte 3
> Twitter Bootstrap
>
> + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage)
> + STOMP
>
> + Amber if needed
>
> I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are
> some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve.
>
> Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs
> other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc).
>
> I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you
> tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more
> Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not
> NSA-backdoor-enabled")
>
> This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the
> Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday
> morning for defending our position on a significant project).
>
> Phil
>
>

Yesterday I came across this very nice Pharo tutorial [1] by Damien &
Camille. Some slides I think that relate are:
* 47-49 syntax comparisons to another typical language
* 72-75 easy web interaction
* 80 serializing continuations / exception context (this is massively
impressive!)
* 81 powerful breakpoints

[1] http://www.slideshare.net/pharoproject/pharo-tutorial-at-ecooptutorial

cheers -ben

Stephan Eggermont-3

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

In reply to this post by philippeback

I'd add as a development environment to the stack: MOOSE
Creating visibility in what you're building

http://vimeo.com/63320261

Stephan

Pavel Krivanek-3

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

In reply to this post by philippeback

You can modify or fix any part of the system including basic
"libraries" very easily and thanks to relativelly small, friendly and
open community you can have as a single person greater influence on
future Pharo development than in any other mentioned environment.
Safer investition :-)

-- Pavel

2013/8/23 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:

> Hello,
>
> As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you
> guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions?
>
> My current stack is:
>
> Pharo 2.0
> Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST)
> Magritte 3
> Twitter Bootstrap
>
> + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage)
> + STOMP
>
> + Amber if needed
>
> I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are
> some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve.
>
> Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs other
> choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc).
>
> I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you
> tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more
> Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not
> NSA-backdoor-enabled")
>
> This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the Consortium
> members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday
> morning for defending our position on a significant project).
>
> Phil

Denis Kudriashov

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

In reply to this post by philippeback

Live programming is main advantage to me

2013/8/23 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>

Hello,

As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions?

My current stack is:

Pharo 2.0
Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST)
Magritte 3
Twitter Bootstrap

+ a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage)
+ STOMP

+ Amber if needed

I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve.

Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc).

I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not NSA-backdoor-enabled")

This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets.

Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday morning for defending our position on a significant project).

Phil

Stéphane Ducasse

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

In reply to this post by philippeback

> Hello,
>
> As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions?

- Pool of accessible experts
- Pool of other software solution developers
- Full stack access, no need to wait for another release to address a problem.
- Growth of the community
- Consortium
- I saw in one bank using Pharo (not public unfortunately) putting stability of the language

> My current stack is:
>
> Pharo 2.0
> Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST)
> Magritte 3
> Twitter Bootstrap
>
> + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage)
> + STOMP
>
> + Amber if needed
>
> I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve.
>
> Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc).
>
> I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not NSA-backdoor-enabled")
>
> This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday morning for defending our position on a significant project).
>
> Phil

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

In reply to this post by Ben Coman

On 21 Aug 2013, at 11:52, [hidden email] wrote:

> Yesterday I came across this very nice Pharo tutorial [1] by Damien & Camille. Some slides I think that relate are:
> * 47-49 syntax comparisons to another typical language
> * 72-75 easy web interaction
> * 80 serializing continuations / exception context (this is massively impressive!)
> * 81 powerful breakpoints
>
> [1] http://www.slideshare.net/pharoproject/pharo-tutorial-at-ecooptutorial

Ah, I did not yet see this, but it _is_ a very nice presentation !

Sven

Tudor Girba-2

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

Very nice, indeed!

I like the examples.

Doru

On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 21 Aug 2013, at 11:52, [hidden email] wrote:

> Yesterday I came across this very nice Pharo tutorial [1] by Damien & Camille. Some slides I think that relate are:
> * 47-49 syntax comparisons to another typical language
> * 72-75 easy web interaction
> * 80 serializing continuations / exception context (this is massively impressive!)
> * 81 powerful breakpoints
>
> [1] http://www.slideshare.net/pharoproject/pharo-tutorial-at-ecooptutorial

Ah, I did not yet see this, but it _is_ a very nice presentation !

Sven

www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Esteban A. Maringolo

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

In reply to this post by Stéphane Ducasse

2013/8/23 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:

>> Hello,
>>
>> As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions?
>
> - Pool of accessible experts
> - Pool of other software solution developers
> - Full stack access, no need to wait for another release to address a problem.
> - Growth of the community
> - Consortium
> - I saw in one bank using Pharo (not public unfortunately) putting stability of the language

I think Phil was referring to the technological/frameworks stack.
Sadly, IMHO, almost every item you mention is surpassed by other
non-mainstream or "trendy" technologies/stacks (JS, Erlang, Scala and
others).

One thing that, for me is a key differentiator is:
- how easy is to change code on the fly
- really complete debugging environment
- objects all the way down
- Easiness of the syntax (small, compact and homogeneous)

Frameworks come and go, but I really like and feel like an advantage
(even though the first two are not "Pharo exclusive"):
- Seaside REST (pragmas are really convenient way to define it)
- Magritte 3
- Zinc

I want to take a look into STOMP, but didin't have time yet. I also like Voyage.

Regards,

Esteban A. Maringolo

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

In reply to this post by philippeback

On 23 Aug 2013, at 10:32, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions?
>
> My current stack is:
>
> Pharo 2.0
> Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST)
> Magritte 3
> Twitter Bootstrap
>
> + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage)
> + STOMP
>
> + Amber if needed
>
> I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve.
>
> Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc).
>
> I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not NSA-backdoor-enabled")
>
> This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday morning for defending our position on a significant project).
>
> Phil

A small team with sufficient real world software development experience, domain knowledge and practical Pharo experience can be an order of a magnitude more efficient than a larger team using a traditional approach and classic technology.

Pharo is a uniquely dynamic environment that is both very simple and very powerful. It allows its developers to focus on what really matters, without the complexities of other tools, while remaining very flexible. It is one of the few languages that are really object oriented and offer access to readable source code, all the way down.

The ecosystem around Pharo is strong enough to be able to deliver already existing solutions as well as the resources to build new solutions to specific problems.

It is an environment that attracts individuals that deeply care about doing software development correctly.

;-)

Sven

jfabry

Re: [Pharo-dev] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

Wow. This is exactly what I wanted to say … except 10 times better :-) I think this is an excellent way to argue for the Pharo advantage!

On Aug 23, 2013, at 8:49 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> A small team with sufficient real world software development experience, domain knowledge and practical Pharo experience can be an order of a magnitude more efficient than a larger team using a traditional approach and classic technology.
>
> Pharo is a uniquely dynamic environment that is both very simple and very powerful. It allows its developers to focus on what really matters, without the complexities of other tools, while remaining very flexible. It is one of the few languages that are really object oriented and offer access to readable source code, all the way down.
>
> The ecosystem around Pharo is strong enough to be able to deliver already existing solutions as well as the resources to build new solutions to specific problems.
>
> It is an environment that attracts individuals that deeply care about doing software development correctly.
>
> ;-)
>
> Sven

---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---

Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

bahman

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

In reply to this post by philippeback

On 08/23/2013 13:02, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hello,
>
> As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would
> you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software
> solutions?
>
> My current stack is:
>
> Pharo 2.0
> Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST)
> Magritte 3
> Twitter Bootstrap
>
> + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage)
> + STOMP
>
> + Amber if needed
>
> I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there
> are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve.
>
> Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs
> other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc).
>
> I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes
> you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with",
> "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not
> NSA-backdoor-enabled")
>
> This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the
> Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on
> monday morning for defending our position on a significant project).
>
>

That's basically what I've been doing in the past 5-6 years ago:

evaluating different platforms, technology combos, libraries, and many a
times I do that for a living --so believe me, I'm good at it :-)
I wrote something about Pharo a few months ago which might help you:
http://www.bahmanm.com/blogs/a-new-platform-for-business-app-development

--
Bahman Movaqar (http://BahmanM.com)

ERP Evaluation, Implementation & Deployment Consultant
PGP Key ID: 0x6AB5BD68 (keyserver2.pgp.com)

signature.asc (565 bytes) Download Attachment

philippeback

Re: The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

Thanks everybody for the feedback.

I am working on some presentation material based on the feedback.

Phil

On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Bahman Movaqar <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 08/23/2013 13:02, [hidden email] wrote:
> Hello,
>
> As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would
> you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software
> solutions?
>
> My current stack is:
>
> Pharo 2.0
> Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST)
> Magritte 3
> Twitter Bootstrap
>
> + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage)
> + STOMP
>
> + Amber if needed
>
> I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there
> are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve.
>
> Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs
> other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc).
>
> I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes
> you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with",
> "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not
> NSA-backdoor-enabled")
>
> This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the
> Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on
> monday morning for defending our position on a significant project).
>
>
That's basically what I've been doing in the past 5-6 years ago:
evaluating different platforms, technology combos, libraries, and many a
times I do that for a living --so believe me, I'm good at it :-)
I wrote something about Pharo a few months ago which might help you:
http://www.bahmanm.com/blogs/a-new-platform-for-business-app-development

--
Bahman Movaqar (http://BahmanM.com)

ERP Evaluation, Implementation & Deployment Consultant
PGP Key ID: 0x6AB5BD68 (keyserver2.pgp.com)