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The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

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The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

commits-2
Tim Felgentreff uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk:
http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

==================== Summary ====================

Name: Morphic-tfel.1317
Author: tfel
Time: 18 January 2017, 10:03:40.884167 am
UUID: 8a50cc7e-f401-4381-a1ce-97d0423370b1
Ancestors: Morphic-bp.1316

add Ctrl +, Ctrl -, and Ctrl = (as in Emacs) for quick font size changes

=============== Diff against Morphic-bp.1316 ===============

Item was changed:
  ----- Method: PasteUpMorph>>filterEvent:for: (in category 'events-processing') -----
  filterEvent: aKeyboardEvent for: anObject
  "Provide keyboard shortcuts."
+
-
  "Delegate keyboard shortcuts to my docking bars."
  self submorphsDo: [:ea | ea isDockingBar ifTrue: [
  ea filterEvent: aKeyboardEvent for: anObject. "No support for converting events here!!"
  aKeyboardEvent wasIgnored ifTrue: [^ aKeyboardEvent "early out"]]].
 
  aKeyboardEvent isKeystroke
  ifFalse: [^ aKeyboardEvent].
 
  aKeyboardEvent commandKeyPressed ifTrue: [
  aKeyboardEvent keyCharacter caseOf: {
  [$R] -> [Utilities browseRecentSubmissions].
  [$L] -> [self findAFileList: aKeyboardEvent].
  [$O] -> [self findAMonticelloBrowser].
  [$P] -> [self findAPreferencesPanel: aKeyboardEvent].
  "[$Z] -> [ChangeList browseRecentLog]."
  [$]] -> [Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false].
  } otherwise: [^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"].
  ^ aKeyboardEvent ignore "hit!!"].
+ aKeyboardEvent controlKeyPressed ifTrue: [
+ aKeyboardEvent keyCharacter caseOf: {
+ [$+] -> [Preferences increaseFontSize].
+ [$-] -> [Preferences decreaseFontSize].
+ [$=] -> [Preferences restoreDefaultFonts].
+ } otherwise: [^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"].
+ ^ aKeyboardEvent ignore "hit!!"].
-
  ^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"!


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Tobias Pape
Sorry for digging this up…

On 18.01.2017, at 10:04, [hidden email] wrote:

> Tim Felgentreff uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk:
> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz
>
> ==================== Summary ====================
>
> Name: Morphic-tfel.1317
> Author: tfel
> Time: 18 January 2017, 10:03:40.884167 am
> UUID: 8a50cc7e-f401-4381-a1ce-97d0423370b1
> Ancestors: Morphic-bp.1316
>
> add Ctrl +, Ctrl -, and Ctrl = (as in Emacs) for quick font size changes
>
> =============== Diff against Morphic-bp.1316 ===============
>
> Item was changed:
>  ----- Method: PasteUpMorph>>filterEvent:for: (in category 'events-processing') -----
>  filterEvent: aKeyboardEvent for: anObject
>   "Provide keyboard shortcuts."
> +
> -
>   "Delegate keyboard shortcuts to my docking bars."
>   self submorphsDo: [:ea | ea isDockingBar ifTrue: [
>   ea filterEvent: aKeyboardEvent for: anObject. "No support for converting events here!!"
>   aKeyboardEvent wasIgnored ifTrue: [^ aKeyboardEvent "early out"]]].
>  
>   aKeyboardEvent isKeystroke
>   ifFalse: [^ aKeyboardEvent].
>  
>   aKeyboardEvent commandKeyPressed ifTrue: [
>   aKeyboardEvent keyCharacter caseOf: {
>   [$R] -> [Utilities browseRecentSubmissions].
>   [$L] -> [self findAFileList: aKeyboardEvent].
>   [$O] -> [self findAMonticelloBrowser].
>   [$P] -> [self findAPreferencesPanel: aKeyboardEvent].
>   "[$Z] -> [ChangeList browseRecentLog]."
>   [$]] -> [Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false].
>   } otherwise: [^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"].
>   ^ aKeyboardEvent ignore "hit!!"].
> + aKeyboardEvent controlKeyPressed ifTrue: [
> + aKeyboardEvent keyCharacter caseOf: {
> + [$+] -> [Preferences increaseFontSize].
> + [$-] -> [Preferences decreaseFontSize].
> + [$=] -> [Preferences restoreDefaultFonts].

I'd really love to use this but here are two problems:
1. I cannot hit cmd-+ on an us-layout, because it is cmd-shift-=,
   and interpreted as cmd-=, restoring the default font.
2. These shortcuts seem to be global and shadow the 'changeEmphasis' of Text/SmaltalkEditor:

        '0123456789-='
                do: [:char | cmdMap at: char asciiValue + 1 put: #changeEmphasis:].

   #changeEmphasis: maps - to underlined and = to struckOut.
   Since the PasteUpMorph shortcuts seem to dominate the one in TextEditor, it is now impossible
   to mark text as undlerlined or struck out…

What can we do?

Best regards
        -Tobias



> + } otherwise: [^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"].
> + ^ aKeyboardEvent ignore "hit!!"].
> -
>   ^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"!
>
>


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Chris Muller-3
+1.  I actually use strikeout in my workspace notes, I do not want to
do without it.

I think we should move these keys to the Font dialog, and make the
font dialog accessible from the DockingBar menu.  The need to change
font sizes in a Squeak image is a lot less frequent than in, say, a
web browser, because navigating in a web browser takes one to
different authored pages that need to be resized all the time, which
isn't the case with Squeak..

Best,
  Chris

PS -- There's one additional problem -- when expanding the font it says,
"Sorry, can't do that" or something like that.  Its because the new
DarkMap font does not have any larger size..    Can't we scale the fonts?


On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry for digging this up…
>
> On 18.01.2017, at 10:04, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Tim Felgentreff uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk:
>> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz
>>
>> ==================== Summary ====================
>>
>> Name: Morphic-tfel.1317
>> Author: tfel
>> Time: 18 January 2017, 10:03:40.884167 am
>> UUID: 8a50cc7e-f401-4381-a1ce-97d0423370b1
>> Ancestors: Morphic-bp.1316
>>
>> add Ctrl +, Ctrl -, and Ctrl = (as in Emacs) for quick font size changes
>>
>> =============== Diff against Morphic-bp.1316 ===============
>>
>> Item was changed:
>>  ----- Method: PasteUpMorph>>filterEvent:for: (in category 'events-processing') -----
>>  filterEvent: aKeyboardEvent for: anObject
>>       "Provide keyboard shortcuts."
>> +
>> -
>>       "Delegate keyboard shortcuts to my docking bars."
>>       self submorphsDo: [:ea | ea isDockingBar ifTrue: [
>>               ea filterEvent: aKeyboardEvent for: anObject. "No support for converting events here!!"
>>               aKeyboardEvent wasIgnored ifTrue: [^ aKeyboardEvent "early out"]]].
>>
>>       aKeyboardEvent isKeystroke
>>               ifFalse: [^ aKeyboardEvent].
>>
>>       aKeyboardEvent commandKeyPressed ifTrue: [
>>               aKeyboardEvent keyCharacter caseOf: {
>>                       [$R] -> [Utilities browseRecentSubmissions].
>>                       [$L] -> [self findAFileList: aKeyboardEvent].
>>                       [$O] -> [self findAMonticelloBrowser].
>>                       [$P] -> [self findAPreferencesPanel: aKeyboardEvent].
>>                       "[$Z] -> [ChangeList browseRecentLog]."
>>                       [$]] -> [Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false].
>>               } otherwise: [^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"].
>>               ^ aKeyboardEvent ignore "hit!!"].
>> +     aKeyboardEvent controlKeyPressed ifTrue: [
>> +             aKeyboardEvent keyCharacter caseOf: {
>> +                     [$+] -> [Preferences increaseFontSize].
>> +                     [$-] -> [Preferences decreaseFontSize].
>> +                     [$=] -> [Preferences restoreDefaultFonts].
>
> I'd really love to use this but here are two problems:
> 1. I cannot hit cmd-+ on an us-layout, because it is cmd-shift-=,
>    and interpreted as cmd-=, restoring the default font.
> 2. These shortcuts seem to be global and shadow the 'changeEmphasis' of Text/SmaltalkEditor:
>
>         '0123456789-='
>                 do: [:char | cmdMap at: char asciiValue + 1 put: #changeEmphasis:].
>
>    #changeEmphasis: maps - to underlined and = to struckOut.
>    Since the PasteUpMorph shortcuts seem to dominate the one in TextEditor, it is now impossible
>    to mark text as undlerlined or struck out…
>
> What can we do?
>
> Best regards
>         -Tobias
>
>
>
>> +             } otherwise: [^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"].
>> +             ^ aKeyboardEvent ignore "hit!!"].
>> -
>>       ^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"!
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Tobias Pape

On 10.02.2017, at 19:19, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1.  I actually use strikeout in my workspace notes, I do not want to
> do without it.
>
> I think we should move these keys to the Font dialog, and make the
> font dialog accessible from the DockingBar menu.  The need to change
> font sizes in a Squeak image is a lot less frequent than in, say, a
> web browser, because navigating in a web browser takes one to
> different authored pages that need to be resized all the time, which
> isn't the case with Squeak..

Hmm, or find something more sensible for _font_ changes than 01234567890-=


>
> Best,
>  Chris
>
> PS -- There's one additional problem -- when expanding the font it says,
> "Sorry, can't do that" or something like that.  Its because the new
> DarkMap font does not have any larger size..    Can't we scale the fonts?

Nope, they're currently bitmap, both default and darkmap. If you change to a
ttf like Bitstream DejaVu (not bitmap) it should work.

Best regards
        -Tobias

>
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Sorry for digging this up…
>>
>> On 18.01.2017, at 10:04, [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>> Tim Felgentreff uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk:
>>> http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz
>>>
>>> ==================== Summary ====================
>>>
>>> Name: Morphic-tfel.1317
>>> Author: tfel
>>> Time: 18 January 2017, 10:03:40.884167 am
>>> UUID: 8a50cc7e-f401-4381-a1ce-97d0423370b1
>>> Ancestors: Morphic-bp.1316
>>>
>>> add Ctrl +, Ctrl -, and Ctrl = (as in Emacs) for quick font size changes
>>>
>>> =============== Diff against Morphic-bp.1316 ===============
>>>
>>> Item was changed:
>>> ----- Method: PasteUpMorph>>filterEvent:for: (in category 'events-processing') -----
>>> filterEvent: aKeyboardEvent for: anObject
>>>      "Provide keyboard shortcuts."
>>> +
>>> -
>>>      "Delegate keyboard shortcuts to my docking bars."
>>>      self submorphsDo: [:ea | ea isDockingBar ifTrue: [
>>>              ea filterEvent: aKeyboardEvent for: anObject. "No support for converting events here!!"
>>>              aKeyboardEvent wasIgnored ifTrue: [^ aKeyboardEvent "early out"]]].
>>>
>>>      aKeyboardEvent isKeystroke
>>>              ifFalse: [^ aKeyboardEvent].
>>>
>>>      aKeyboardEvent commandKeyPressed ifTrue: [
>>>              aKeyboardEvent keyCharacter caseOf: {
>>>                      [$R] -> [Utilities browseRecentSubmissions].
>>>                      [$L] -> [self findAFileList: aKeyboardEvent].
>>>                      [$O] -> [self findAMonticelloBrowser].
>>>                      [$P] -> [self findAPreferencesPanel: aKeyboardEvent].
>>>                      "[$Z] -> [ChangeList browseRecentLog]."
>>>                      [$]] -> [Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: false].
>>>              } otherwise: [^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"].
>>>              ^ aKeyboardEvent ignore "hit!!"].
>>> +     aKeyboardEvent controlKeyPressed ifTrue: [
>>> +             aKeyboardEvent keyCharacter caseOf: {
>>> +                     [$+] -> [Preferences increaseFontSize].
>>> +                     [$-] -> [Preferences decreaseFontSize].
>>> +                     [$=] -> [Preferences restoreDefaultFonts].
>>
>> I'd really love to use this but here are two problems:
>> 1. I cannot hit cmd-+ on an us-layout, because it is cmd-shift-=,
>>   and interpreted as cmd-=, restoring the default font.
>> 2. These shortcuts seem to be global and shadow the 'changeEmphasis' of Text/SmaltalkEditor:
>>
>>        '0123456789-='
>>                do: [:char | cmdMap at: char asciiValue + 1 put: #changeEmphasis:].
>>
>>   #changeEmphasis: maps - to underlined and = to struckOut.
>>   Since the PasteUpMorph shortcuts seem to dominate the one in TextEditor, it is now impossible
>>   to mark text as undlerlined or struck out…
>>
>> What can we do?
>>
>> Best regards
>>        -Tobias
>>
>>
>>
>>> +             } otherwise: [^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"].
>>> +             ^ aKeyboardEvent ignore "hit!!"].
>>> -
>>>      ^ aKeyboardEvent "no hit"!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Chris Muller-4
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 10.02.2017, at 19:19, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> +1.  I actually use strikeout in my workspace notes, I do not want to
>> do without it.
>>
>> I think we should move these keys to the Font dialog, and make the
>> font dialog accessible from the DockingBar menu.  The need to change
>> font sizes in a Squeak image is a lot less frequent than in, say, a
>> web browser, because navigating in a web browser takes one to
>> different authored pages that need to be resized all the time, which
>> isn't the case with Squeak..
>
> Hmm, or find something more sensible for _font_ changes than 01234567890-=

(Actually, those assignments make a lot of sense).

My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
per day.

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

timrowledge

> On 10-02-2017, at 2:47 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
> introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
> to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
> keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
> per day.

Personally I don’t like global hot keys in any way shape or form.


tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Strange Opcodes: ZZZZZZZZZZZZ: enter sleep mode



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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Tobias Pape

On 12.02.2017, at 20:04, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> On 10-02-2017, at 2:47 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
>> introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
>> to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
>> keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
>> per day.
>
> Personally I don’t like global hot keys in any way shape or form.

Well, but we won't do without them either, right?

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Bob Arning-2
In reply to this post by timrowledge

Me neither. When I get a new image, I'm always looking for ways to disable the ones that do the most damage when I hit them accidentally.


On 2/12/17 2:04 PM, tim Rowledge wrote:

      
On 10-02-2017, at 2:47 PM, Chris Muller [hidden email] wrote:


My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
per day.
Personally I don’t like global hot keys in any way shape or form.


tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Strange Opcodes: ZZZZZZZZZZZZ: enter sleep mode






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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Stéphane Rollandin
In reply to this post by timrowledge
>>
>> My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
>> introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
>> to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
>> keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
>> per day.
>
> Personally I don’t like global hot keys in any way shape or form.

Same here.

Stef


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Tobias Pape

On 12.02.2017, at 21:14, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>>
>>> My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
>>> introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
>>> to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
>>> keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
>>> per day.
>>
>> Personally I don’t like global hot keys in any way shape or form.
>
> Same here.

What's the alternative?


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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Jakob Reschke
In reply to this post by Stéphane Rollandin
I hope the alternative is "local" hotkeys, such as cmd-n and cmd-m
being "local" to SmalltalkEditors.

Luckily, SmalltalkEditors are ubiquitous in our tools... I miss
senders/implementors hotkeys big time in the old VA Smalltalk version
available to me.

2017-02-12 21:16 GMT+01:00 Tobias Pape <[hidden email]>:

>
> On 12.02.2017, at 21:14, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
>>>> introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
>>>> to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
>>>> keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
>>>> per day.
>>>
>>> Personally I don’t like global hot keys in any way shape or form.
>>
>> Same here.
>
> What's the alternative?
>
>

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Chris Muller-3
In reply to this post by Tobias Pape
The only alternative to a global hot-key is the mouse.

For example, to open the Monticello browser:

  1) grab the mouse, start moving it upward and to the left
  2) locate the ascending hand on the screen, aim for the "Tools" menu
  3) click Tools
  4) click Monticello

This, any and every time one wishes to load/save packages, check dirty
packages, revert methods, browse history, etc.  With so many use
cases, it adds up to a lot of time and repetition compared to simply
pressing Cmd+Shift+O.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 12.02.2017, at 21:14, Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
>>>> introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
>>>> to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
>>>> keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
>>>> per day.
>>>
>>> Personally I don’t like global hot keys in any way shape or form.
>>
>> Same here.
>
> What's the alternative?
>
>

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Bob Arning-2

Of course, if it is important enough to assign and remember a hot key, then it might also be important enough to make a simple button somewhere. Or have a Monticello browser in a tab. Or add it to the World menu. Or use the personal World menu. Seems like there are many ways. Some more opaque than others. ;-)


On 2/12/17 6:58 PM, Chris Muller wrote:
The only alternative to a global hot-key is the mouse.

For example, to open the Monticello browser:

  1) grab the mouse, start moving it upward and to the left
  2) locate the ascending hand on the screen, aim for the "Tools" menu
  3) click Tools
  4) click Monticello

This, any and every time one wishes to load/save packages, check dirty
packages, revert methods, browse history, etc.  With so many use
cases, it adds up to a lot of time and repetition compared to simply
pressing Cmd+Shift+O.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Tobias Pape [hidden email] wrote:
On 12.02.2017, at 21:14, Stéphane Rollandin [hidden email] wrote:

My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
per day.
Personally I don’t like global hot keys in any way shape or form.
Same here.
What's the alternative?



    



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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

timrowledge
In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3

> On 12-02-2017, at 3:58 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The only alternative to a global hot-key is the mouse.
>
> For example, to open the Monticello browser:
>
>  1) grab the mouse, start moving it upward and to the left
>  2) locate the ascending hand on the screen, aim for the "Tools" menu
>  3) click Tools
>  4) click Monticello

Or menu button over the desktop, -> open -> Monticello Browser
a) this, like almost all our menus could be improved if all the multiple menu setups were properly changed to hierarchical menus
b) I argued with Jef Raskin for a couple of years about why I thought Smalltalk’s 'menu where I clicked’ approach was better than the original Mac notion of the global menu bar - his point was largely that he used Fitt’s Law to make the target very large and easy to hit. My point was that making the distance to move very small made it even easier to hit your target. On a small original Mac screen the distance was never huge but once you got to >1024 pixels high screens it all seemed a bit less excellent. He did eventually agree with me.
c) an important issue with hotkeys is the lack of ‘address space’ combined somewhat paradoxically with there being too many to be easily familiar.
d) c is even more muddied by different platforms having a lot of different ideas about it; so we need to fit in or really piss off users, leaving even fewer clean options. Or, platform specific choices correctly done.


Of course, with keyboard menu navigation some of these problems could possibly be handled by having a small set of hot keys that open menus that can be easily  navigated with cursor keys or the search-by-char stuff. We do have Esc-> focus menu right now; I don’t know if cmd/ctl/opt/meta/whatever-Esc is available to  get the World menu? Knowing the way of the world it is probably ok for all except one platform...



tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Oxymorons: Soft rock



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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Jakob Reschke
In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3
One might add that there is Ctrl+1, 2, 3 ... to open the main docking bar menus.

But for whatever reason, the "open context menu" key next to the right
ctrl key is ignored by Squeak. Is there a reason other than Esc doing
the same thing or "never cared"?

I still do prefer immediate keyboard shortcuts, as I pointed out.
Clicking ToolBar buttons in VAST is not as fast as cmd-m in Squeak is.
Would be good if shortcuts were overridable by the focused widget,
however.

2017-02-13 3:05 GMT+01:00 tim Rowledge <[hidden email]>:

>
>> On 12-02-2017, at 3:58 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The only alternative to a global hot-key is the mouse.
>>
>> For example, to open the Monticello browser:
>>
>>  1) grab the mouse, start moving it upward and to the left
>>  2) locate the ascending hand on the screen, aim for the "Tools" menu
>>  3) click Tools
>>  4) click Monticello
>
> Or menu button over the desktop, -> open -> Monticello Browser
> a) this, like almost all our menus could be improved if all the multiple menu setups were properly changed to hierarchical menus
> b) I argued with Jef Raskin for a couple of years about why I thought Smalltalk’s 'menu where I clicked’ approach was better than the original Mac notion of the global menu bar - his point was largely that he used Fitt’s Law to make the target very large and easy to hit. My point was that making the distance to move very small made it even easier to hit your target. On a small original Mac screen the distance was never huge but once you got to >1024 pixels high screens it all seemed a bit less excellent. He did eventually agree with me.
> c) an important issue with hotkeys is the lack of ‘address space’ combined somewhat paradoxically with there being too many to be easily familiar.
> d) c is even more muddied by different platforms having a lot of different ideas about it; so we need to fit in or really piss off users, leaving even fewer clean options. Or, platform specific choices correctly done.
>
>
> Of course, with keyboard menu navigation some of these problems could possibly be handled by having a small set of hot keys that open menus that can be easily  navigated with cursor keys or the search-by-char stuff. We do have Esc-> focus menu right now; I don’t know if cmd/ctl/opt/meta/whatever-Esc is available to  get the World menu? Knowing the way of the world it is probably ok for all except one platform...
>
>
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Oxymorons: Soft rock
>
>
>

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Re: The Trunk: Morphic-tfel.1317.mcz

Bob Arning-2
In reply to this post by Chris Muller-3

It's probably worth remembering that menus can be pinned up and left in a convenient place.


On 2/12/17 6:58 PM, Chris Muller wrote:
The only alternative to a global hot-key is the mouse.

For example, to open the Monticello browser:

  1) grab the mouse, start moving it upward and to the left
  2) locate the ascending hand on the screen, aim for the "Tools" menu
  3) click Tools
  4) click Monticello

This, any and every time one wishes to load/save packages, check dirty
packages, revert methods, browse history, etc.  With so many use
cases, it adds up to a lot of time and repetition compared to simply
pressing Cmd+Shift+O.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Tobias Pape [hidden email] wrote:
On 12.02.2017, at 21:14, Stéphane Rollandin [hidden email] wrote:

My point is that global hot keys are not only scarce, every new one we
introduce becomes a possible overload with applications that may wish
to use those keys for something else.  We should add new global hot
keys only sparingly, for things that are accessed at least 10 times
per day.
Personally I don’t like global hot keys in any way shape or form.
Same here.
What's the alternative?



    



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