The current state of ObjectStudio

> Hi Henrik;
> I won't shoot the messenger, I will just point out some information
> you may have missed;  :-)
> Thank you for pointing out the difficulty in finding ObjectStudio's
> Win7 compatibility certification, you can see it here:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[1](We will try to correct the multi-language parameters that make it
> not easily found in the default search).
> There are numerous ObjectStudio based reference success stories on
> our web site.  Look under "Successes".There are more customers using
> it, but their company policies forbid them from discussing use of
> technology publicly.
> It may surprise you to learn some of Cincom's largest Smalltalk
> customers are ObjectStudio users.
> Also, I think ObjectStudio looks very good running on Windows 8 :
> hth
> Arden Thomas Cincom Smalltalk Product manager
> On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
> HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS PRODUCT, CHECKED
> VARIOUS CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED GOOGLE A LOT,
> WATCHED SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS A
> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF
> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE
> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·        THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE
> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS
> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·        THE ONLY REFERENCE
> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [2]. - A COMPANY THAT HAS
> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·         THERE IS *ABSOLUTELY* no active
> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no anything. Even your
> own employees has noticed this years ago
> (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&pr
> intTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[3]) ·         The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the
> first—and only—Windows 7-certified Smalltalk environment”. The
> problem is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7 Certified.
> Software can earn the “Works with Windows 7”, but apparently
> ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this
> (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx
> ?l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[4] ).  I think you are doing yourself and the Smalltalk community a
> great disservice by trying to market ObjectStudio. My advice to you is
> to remove all information about the product on you webpage, stop
> promoting it, and create a closed area for existing customers.  Please
> don’t shoot the messenger for bringing bad news, the above was
> written with the best intensions.  
> [5]
> Henrik Høyer
> Chief Software Architect
> • (+45) 4029 2092
> Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
> www.sPeople.dk [7] • (+45) 7023 7775
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc [9]
>
> On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
> HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS PRODUCT, CHECKED
> VARIOUS CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED GOOGLE A LOT,
> WATCHED SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS A
> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF
> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE
> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·        THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE
> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS
> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·         THE ONLY REFERENCE
> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [10]. - A COMPANY THAT HAS
> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·        THERE IS *ABSOLUTELY* no active
> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no anything. Even your
> own employees has noticed this years ago (
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&pri
> ntTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[11])·         The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the
> first—and only—Windows 7-certified Smalltalk environment”. The
> problem is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7 Certified.
> Software can earn the “Works with Windows 7”, but apparently
> ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this (
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[12]).  I think you are doing yourself and the Smalltalk community a
> great disservice by trying to market ObjectStudio. My advice to you is
> to remove all information about the product on you webpage, stop
> promoting it, and create a closed area for existing customers.  Please
> don’t shoot the messenger for bringing bad news, the above was
> written with the best intensions.  
> [13]
> Henrik Høyer
> Chief Software Architect
> • (+45) 4029 2092
> Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
> www.sPeople.dk [15] • (+45) 7023 7775
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
>
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc [17]
>
> Arden ThomasCincom Smalltalk Product Manager845 296 0686
> Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible,
> possible
> "Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci  
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[2] http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH/
> [3]
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&
> ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[4]
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[5] http://www.sPeople.dk/
> [7] http://www.sPeople.dk/
> [9] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
> [10] http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH
> [11]
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&
> ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[12]
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[13] http://www.sPeople.dk
> [15] http://www.sPeople.dk
> [17] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>
>

> Hi Henrik;
> I won't shoot the messenger, I will just point out some information
> you may have missed;  :-) Thank you for pointing out the difficulty in
> finding ObjectStudio's
> Win7 compatibility certification, you can see it here:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[1](We will
> try to correct the multi-language parameters that make it not easily found in the default search).
> There are numerous ObjectStudio based reference success stories on our
> web site.  Look under "Successes".There are more customers using it,
> but their company policies forbid them from discussing use of
> technology publicly.
> It may surprise you to learn some of Cincom's largest Smalltalk
> customers are ObjectStudio users.
> Also, I think ObjectStudio looks very good running on Windows 8 :
> hth
> Arden Thomas Cincom Smalltalk Product manager On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00
> PM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
> HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS PRODUCT, CHECKED VARIOUS
> CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED GOOGLE A LOT, WATCHED
> SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS A
> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF
> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE
> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·        THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE
> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS
> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·        THE ONLY REFERENCE
> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [2]. - A COMPANY THAT HAS
> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·         THERE IS *ABSOLUTELY* no active
> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no anything. Even your
> own employees has noticed this years ago
> (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&pr
> intTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[3]) ·         The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the
> first—and only—Windows 7-certified Smalltalk environment”. The problem
> is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7 Certified.
> Software can earn the “Works with Windows 7”, but apparently
> ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this
> (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search
> .aspx ?l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[4] ).  I think you are
> doing yourself and the Smalltalk community a great disservice by
> trying to market ObjectStudio. My advice to you is to remove all
> information about the product on you webpage, stop promoting it, and
> create a closed area for existing customers.  Please don’t shoot the
> messenger for bringing bad news, the above was written with the best
> intensions.
> [5]
> Henrik Høyer
> Chief Software Architect
> • (+45) 4029 2092
> Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
> www.sPeople.dk [7] • (+45) 7023 7775
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc [9]
>
> On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
> HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS PRODUCT, CHECKED VARIOUS
> CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED GOOGLE A LOT, WATCHED
> SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS A
> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF
> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE
> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·        THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE
> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS
> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·         THE ONLY REFERENCE
> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [10]. - A COMPANY THAT HAS
> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·        THERE IS *ABSOLUTELY* no active
> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no anything. Even your
> own employees has noticed this years ago (
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&pri
> ntTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[11])·         The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the
> first—and only—Windows 7-certified Smalltalk environment”. The problem
> is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7 Certified.
> Software can earn the “Works with Windows 7”, but apparently
> ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this (
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[12]).  I think you are doing
> yourself and the Smalltalk community a great disservice by trying to
> market ObjectStudio. My advice to you is to remove all information
> about the product on you webpage, stop promoting it, and create a
> closed area for existing customers.  Please don’t shoot the messenger
> for bringing bad news, the above was written with the best intensions.
> [13]
> Henrik Høyer
> Chief Software Architect
> • (+45) 4029 2092
> Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
> www.sPeople.dk [15] • (+45) 7023 7775
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
>
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc [17]
>
> Arden ThomasCincom Smalltalk Product Manager845 296 0686 Cincom
> Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible
> "Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[2]
> http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH/
> [3]
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=tru
> e& ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[4]
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[5] http://www.sPeople.dk/ [7]
> http://www.sPeople.dk/ [9]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
> [10] http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH
> [11]
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=tru
> e& ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[12]
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[13] http://www.sPeople.dk [15]
> http://www.sPeople.dk [17]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>
>

> Madhu,
>
> I agree with your description about the GUI. Until now I have not seen many
> requests from ObjectStudio to improve the GUI. Is this important for your
> environment?
> I understand that ObjectStudio is used by many big companies for mission
> critical applications. The requests I have seen were
> 1. Stability of the product
> 2. Support of all kind of interfaces (dot net, web services, http,
> databases)3. Support for Unicode
> 4. Source code compatibility to prior versions
> 5. ease of use for typical business applications
> 6. availability on up-to-date Windows platforms
>
> With the move to Version 8 I have seen Cincom moving to these goals.
>
> Concerning Hendrik's remark about the "quiet community": Business
> application programmers are rarely part of the Facebook generation; they
> tend to work quietly towards their goals; mostly their companies do not
> allow to speak about their work in public.
> Georg
>
> Georg Heeg eK, Dortmund und Köthen, HR Dortmund A 12812
> Wallstraße 22, 06366 Köthen
> Tel. +49-3496-214328, Fax +49-3496-214712
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email] [vwnc
> -[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von MadhuGesendet: Freitag, 30. September 2011 11:07
> An: [hidden email]
> .eduBetreff: Re: [vwnc] The current state of ObjectStudio
>
> >>Also, I think ObjectStudio looks very good
> running on Windows 8 :
> In my opinion it does not. ObjectStudio widgets still do not look like
> native operating system widgets. They don't have Windows 95 look anymore
> but they have this ugly border around them. If you are specifically trying
> to say that it looks very good on Windows 8, then I have to tell you that
> from what I see, it looks the same on Windows Vista, Windows 7 and 8.
> May be if the DLLCC GUI project (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComme
> nts=true&printTitle=Camp_ObjectStudio&entry=3400314749)
> is finished, we might have the possibility to make the ObjectStudio GUI
> better and look like native windows applications. Could you give us a
> status update on this project?
> Regards,
> Madhu.
>
> On Thu 29/09/11 16:01 , Arden Thomas athomas@ci
> ncom.com sent:> Hi Henrik;
> > I won't shoot the messenger, I will just point
> out some information > you may have missed;  :-) Thank you for pointing
> out the difficulty in > finding ObjectStudio's
> > Win7 compatibility certification, you can see it
> here:> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/
> Search.aspx?>
> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[1
> ](We will > try to correct the multi-language parameters
> that make it not easily found in the default search).> There are numerous ObjectStudio based reference
> success stories on our > web site.  Look under
> "Successes".There are more customers using it, > but their company policies forbid them from
> discussing use of > technology publicly.
> > It may surprise you to learn some of Cincom's
> largest Smalltalk > customers are ObjectStudio users.
> > Also, I think ObjectStudio looks very good
> running on Windows 8 :> hth
> > Arden Thomas Cincom Smalltalk Product manager On
> Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00 > PM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
> > HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS
> PRODUCT, CHECKED VARIOUS > CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED
> GOOGLE A LOT, WATCHED > SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION
> THAT THIS IS A> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY
> WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY
> DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·    
>   THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS
> WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·  
>     THE ONLY REFERENCE> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [2]. - A COMPANY THAT
> HAS> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·         THERE
> IS *ABSOLUTELY* no active> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no
> anything. Even your > own employees has noticed this years ago
> > (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComme
> nts=true&pr>
> intTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[3]) ·        
> The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the> first—and only—Windows 7-certified
> Smalltalk environment”. The problem > is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7
> Certified.> Software can earn the “Works with Windows
> 7”, but apparently > ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this
> > (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/
> Search> .aspx
> ?l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[4] ).  I think you are
> > doing yourself and the Smalltalk community a
> great disservice by > trying to market ObjectStudio. My advice to you
> is to remove all > information about the product on you webpage,
> stop promoting it, and > create a closed area for existing customers.
> Please don’t shoot the > messenger for bringing bad news, the above was
> written with the best > intensions.
> > [5]
> > Henrik Høyer
> > Chief Software Architect
> > • (+45) 4029 2092
> > Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
> > www.sPeople.dk [7]
> • (+45) 7023 7775>
> _______________________________________________> vwnc mailing list
> > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
> [9]>
> > On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Henrik Høyer
> wrote:> HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS
> PRODUCT, CHECKED VARIOUS > CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED
> GOOGLE A LOT, WATCHED > SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION
> THAT THIS IS A> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY
> WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY
> DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·    
>   THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS
> WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·  
>      THE ONLY REFERENCE> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [10]. - A COMPANY THAT
> HAS> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·        THERE IS
> *ABSOLUTELY* no active> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no
> anything. Even your > own employees has noticed this years ago (
> > http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComme
> nts=true&pri>
> ntTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[11])·        
> The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the> first—and only—Windows 7-certified
> Smalltalk environment”. The problem > is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7
> Certified.> Software can earn the “Works with Windows
> 7”, but apparently > ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this (
> > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/
> Search.aspx?>
> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[12]).  I think you are doing
> > yourself and the Smalltalk community a great
> disservice by trying to > market ObjectStudio. My advice to you is to
> remove all information > about the product on you webpage, stop promoting
> it, and create a > closed area for existing customers.  Please
> don’t shoot the messenger > for bringing bad news, the above was written
> with the best intensions.> [13]
> > Henrik Høyer
> > Chief Software Architect
> > • (+45) 4029 2092
> > Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
> > www.sPeople.dk [15]
> • (+45) 7023 7775>
> _______________________________________________> vwnc mailing list
> >
> > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
> [17]>
> > Arden ThomasCincom Smalltalk Product Manager845
> 296 0686 Cincom > Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the
> impossible, possible > "Simplicity is the Ultimate
> Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci>
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1]
> > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/
> Search.aspx?>
> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[2
> ] > http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH/
> > [3]
> > http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComme
> nts=tru> e&
> ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[4]> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/
> Search.aspx?> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[5]
> http://www.sPeople.dk/ [7] > http://www.sPeople.dk/ [9] > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc> [10] http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH> [11]
> > http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComme
> nts=tru> e&
> ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[12]> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/
> Search.aspx?> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[13]
> http://www.sPeople.dk [15] > http://www.sPeople.dk [17] > http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc>
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> .eduhttp://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>
>
>

> Madhu,
>
> I agree with your description about the GUI. Until now I have not seen many requests from ObjectStudio to improve the GUI. Is this important for your environment?
>
> I understand that ObjectStudio is used by many big companies for mission critical applications. The requests I have seen were
>
> 1. Stability of the product
> 2. Support of all kind of interfaces (dot net, web services, http, databases)
> 3. Support for Unicode
> 4. Source code compatibility to prior versions
> 5. ease of use for typical business applications
> 6. availability on up-to-date Windows platforms
>
> With the move to Version 8 I have seen Cincom moving to these goals.
>
> Concerning Hendrik's remark about the "quiet community": Business application programmers are rarely part of the Facebook generation; they tend to work quietly towards their goals; mostly their companies do not allow to speak about their work in public.
>
> Georg
>
> Georg Heeg eK, Dortmund und Köthen, HR Dortmund A 12812
> Wallstraße 22, 06366 Köthen
> Tel. +49-3496-214328, Fax +49-3496-214712
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Madhu
> Gesendet: Freitag, 30. September 2011 11:07
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: Re: [vwnc] The current state of ObjectStudio
>
>>> Also, I think ObjectStudio looks very good running on Windows 8 :
>
> In my opinion it does not. ObjectStudio widgets still do not look like native operating system widgets. They don't have Windows 95 look anymore but they have this ugly border around them. If you are specifically trying to say that it looks very good on Windows 8, then I have to tell you that from what I see, it looks the same on Windows Vista, Windows 7 and 8.
>
> May be if the DLLCC GUI project (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=Camp_ObjectStudio&entry=3400314749) is finished, we might have the possibility to make the ObjectStudio GUI better and look like native windows applications. Could you give us a status update on this project?
>
> Regards,
> Madhu.
>
> On Thu 29/09/11 16:01 , Arden Thomas [hidden email] sent:
>> Hi Henrik;
>> I won't shoot the messenger, I will just point out some information
>> you may have missed;  :-) Thank you for pointing out the difficulty in
>> finding ObjectStudio's
>> Win7 compatibility certification, you can see it here:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[1](We will
>> try to correct the multi-language parameters that make it not easily found in the default search).
>> There are numerous ObjectStudio based reference success stories on our
>> web site.  Look under "Successes".There are more customers using it,
>> but their company policies forbid them from discussing use of
>> technology publicly.
>> It may surprise you to learn some of Cincom's largest Smalltalk
>> customers are ObjectStudio users.
>> Also, I think ObjectStudio looks very good running on Windows 8 :
>> hth
>> Arden Thomas Cincom Smalltalk Product manager On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00
>> PM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
>> HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS PRODUCT, CHECKED VARIOUS
>> CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED GOOGLE A LOT, WATCHED
>> SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS A
>> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF
>> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE
>> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·        THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE
>> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS
>> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·        THE ONLY REFERENCE
>> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [2]. - A COMPANY THAT HAS
>> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·         THERE IS *ABSOLUTELY* no active
>> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no anything. Even your
>> own employees has noticed this years ago
>> (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&pr
>> intTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[3]) ·         The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the
>> first—and only—Windows 7-certified Smalltalk environment”. The problem
>> is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7 Certified.
>> Software can earn the “Works with Windows 7”, but apparently
>> ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this
>> (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search
>> .aspx ?l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[4] ).  I think you are
>> doing yourself and the Smalltalk community a great disservice by
>> trying to market ObjectStudio. My advice to you is to remove all
>> information about the product on you webpage, stop promoting it, and
>> create a closed area for existing customers.  Please don’t shoot the
>> messenger for bringing bad news, the above was written with the best
>> intensions.
>> [5]
>> Henrik Høyer
>> Chief Software Architect
>> • (+45) 4029 2092
>> Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
>> www.sPeople.dk [7] • (+45) 7023 7775
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc [9]
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
>> HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS PRODUCT, CHECKED VARIOUS
>> CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED GOOGLE A LOT, WATCHED
>> SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS A
>> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF
>> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE
>> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·        THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE
>> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS
>> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·         THE ONLY REFERENCE
>> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [10]. - A COMPANY THAT HAS
>> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·        THERE IS *ABSOLUTELY* no active
>> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no anything. Even your
>> own employees has noticed this years ago (
>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&pri
>> ntTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[11])·         The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the
>> first—and only—Windows 7-certified Smalltalk environment”. The problem
>> is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7 Certified.
>> Software can earn the “Works with Windows 7”, but apparently
>> ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this (
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[12]).  I think you are doing
>> yourself and the Smalltalk community a great disservice by trying to
>> market ObjectStudio. My advice to you is to remove all information
>> about the product on you webpage, stop promoting it, and create a
>> closed area for existing customers.  Please don’t shoot the messenger
>> for bringing bad news, the above was written with the best intensions.
>> [13]
>> Henrik Høyer
>> Chief Software Architect
>> • (+45) 4029 2092
>> Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
>> www.sPeople.dk [15] • (+45) 7023 7775
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>>
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc [17]
>>
>> Arden ThomasCincom Smalltalk Product Manager845 296 0686 Cincom
>> Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible
>> "Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> ------
>> [1]
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[2]
>> http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH/
>> [3]
>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=tru
>> e& ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[4]
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[5] http://www.sPeople.dk/ [7]
>> http://www.sPeople.dk/ [9]
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>> [10] http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH
>> [11]
>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=tru
>> e& ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[12]
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[13] http://www.sPeople.dk [15]
>> http://www.sPeople.dk [17]
>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> vwnc mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

>
> There are tons of VW and VA developers who fit this mold; it's hardly limited to ObjectStudio.
>
> On Sep 30, 2011, at 6:47 AM, Georg Heeg wrote:
>
>> Madhu,
>>
>> I agree with your description about the GUI. Until now I have not seen many requests from ObjectStudio to improve the GUI. Is this important for your environment?
>>
>> I understand that ObjectStudio is used by many big companies for mission critical applications. The requests I have seen were
>>
>> 1. Stability of the product
>> 2. Support of all kind of interfaces (dot net, web services, http, databases)
>> 3. Support for Unicode
>> 4. Source code compatibility to prior versions
>> 5. ease of use for typical business applications
>> 6. availability on up-to-date Windows platforms
>>
>> With the move to Version 8 I have seen Cincom moving to these goals.
>>
>> Concerning Hendrik's remark about the "quiet community": Business application programmers are rarely part of the Facebook generation; they tend to work quietly towards their goals; mostly their companies do not allow to speak about their work in public.
>>
>> Georg
>>
>> Georg Heeg eK, Dortmund und Köthen, HR Dortmund A 12812
>> Wallstraße 22, 06366 Köthen
>> Tel. +49-3496-214328, Fax +49-3496-214712
>>
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Madhu
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 30. September 2011 11:07
>> An: [hidden email]
>> Betreff: Re: [vwnc] The current state of ObjectStudio
>>
>>>> Also, I think ObjectStudio looks very good running on Windows 8 :
>> In my opinion it does not. ObjectStudio widgets still do not look like native operating system widgets. They don't have Windows 95 look anymore but they have this ugly border around them. If you are specifically trying to say that it looks very good on Windows 8, then I have to tell you that from what I see, it looks the same on Windows Vista, Windows 7 and 8.
>>
>> May be if the DLLCC GUI project (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&printTitle=Camp_ObjectStudio&entry=3400314749) is finished, we might have the possibility to make the ObjectStudio GUI better and look like native windows applications. Could you give us a status update on this project?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Madhu.
>>
>> On Thu 29/09/11 16:01 , Arden Thomas [hidden email] sent:
>>> Hi Henrik;
>>> I won't shoot the messenger, I will just point out some information
>>> you may have missed;  :-) Thank you for pointing out the difficulty in
>>> finding ObjectStudio's
>>> Win7 compatibility certification, you can see it here:
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>>> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[1](We will
>>> try to correct the multi-language parameters that make it not easily found in the default search).
>>> There are numerous ObjectStudio based reference success stories on our
>>> web site.  Look under "Successes".There are more customers using it,
>>> but their company policies forbid them from discussing use of
>>> technology publicly.
>>> It may surprise you to learn some of Cincom's largest Smalltalk
>>> customers are ObjectStudio users.
>>> Also, I think ObjectStudio looks very good running on Windows 8 :
>>> hth
>>> Arden Thomas Cincom Smalltalk Product manager On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00
>>> PM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
>>> HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS PRODUCT, CHECKED VARIOUS
>>> CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED GOOGLE A LOT, WATCHED
>>> SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS A
>>> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF
>>> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE
>>> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·        THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE
>>> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS
>>> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·        THE ONLY REFERENCE
>>> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [2]. - A COMPANY THAT HAS
>>> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·         THERE IS *ABSOLUTELY* no active
>>> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no anything. Even your
>>> own employees has noticed this years ago
>>> (http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&pr
>>> intTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[3]) ·         The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the
>>> first—and only—Windows 7-certified Smalltalk environment”. The problem
>>> is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7 Certified.
>>> Software can earn the “Works with Windows 7”, but apparently
>>> ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this
>>> (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search
>>> .aspx ?l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[4] ).  I think you are
>>> doing yourself and the Smalltalk community a great disservice by
>>> trying to market ObjectStudio. My advice to you is to remove all
>>> information about the product on you webpage, stop promoting it, and
>>> create a closed area for existing customers.  Please don’t shoot the
>>> messenger for bringing bad news, the above was written with the best
>>> intensions.
>>> [5]
>>> Henrik Høyer
>>> Chief Software Architect
>>> • (+45) 4029 2092
>>> Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
>>> www.sPeople.dk [7] • (+45) 7023 7775
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> vwnc mailing list
>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc [9]
>>>
>>> On Sep 28, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
>>> HAVING DOWNLOADED THE EVALUATION COPY OF THIS PRODUCT, CHECKED VARIOUS
>>> CINCOM DOCUMENTATION, BLOGS MAILINGS LISTS, USED GOOGLE A LOT, WATCHED
>>> SOME SCREENCAST I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THIS IS A
>>> VERY DEAD PRODUCT….   I CANNOT IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION THINK OF
>>> ANYONE WHO WOULD PICK UP OBJECTSTUDIO TO DO ANY DEVELOPMENT. HERE ARE
>>> JUST A FEW OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS  ·        THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE
>>> PRODUCT (AND ANY PRODUCT CREATED WITH IT) IS WINDOWS 95, AND LOOKS
>>> TERRIBLE ON MODERN OPERATING SYSTEMS ·         THE ONLY REFERENCE
>>> CUSTOMER I COULD FIND IS HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH [10]. - A COMPANY THAT HAS
>>> HIBERNATING FOR 5 YEARS ·        THERE IS *ABSOLUTELY* no active
>>> community, no active mailing list, no blogs, no anything. Even your
>>> own employees has noticed this years ago (
>>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=true&pri
>>> ntTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[11])·         The product is advertised as “ObjectStudio is the
>>> first—and only—Windows 7-certified Smalltalk environment”. The problem
>>> is though that only Hardware can get Windows 7 Certified.
>>> Software can earn the “Works with Windows 7”, but apparently
>>> ObjectStudio hasn’t earned this (
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>>> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[12]).  I think you are doing
>>> yourself and the Smalltalk community a great disservice by trying to
>>> market ObjectStudio. My advice to you is to remove all information
>>> about the product on you webpage, stop promoting it, and create a
>>> closed area for existing customers.  Please don’t shoot the messenger
>>> for bringing bad news, the above was written with the best intensions.
>>> [13]
>>> Henrik Høyer
>>> Chief Software Architect
>>> • (+45) 4029 2092
>>> Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
>>> www.sPeople.dk [15] • (+45) 7023 7775
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> vwnc mailing list
>>>
>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc [17]
>>>
>>> Arden ThomasCincom Smalltalk Product Manager845 296 0686 Cincom
>>> Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible
>>> "Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1]
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>>> type=Software&compat=all&os=32-bit&s=ObjectStudio&l=zh-cn[2]
>>> http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH/
>>> [3]
>>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=tru
>>> e&  ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[4]
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>>> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[5] http://www.sPeople.dk/ [7]
>>> http://www.sPeople.dk/ [9]
>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>> [10] http://webmail.genotec.ch/HTTP://WWW.AGIS.CH
>>> [11]
>>> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/ost/blogView?showComments=tru
>>> e&  ;printTitle=Hello_Anybody_out_there&entry=3398493963[12]
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?
>>> l=en-us&type=Software&s=objectstudio[13] http://www.sPeople.dk [15]
>>> http://www.sPeople.dk [17]
>>> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> vwnc mailing list
>> [hidden email]
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>>
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>> [hidden email]
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> James Robertson
> http://www.jarober.com
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
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