The html5 revolution
Locked
 
|
Hi guys,
this is the revolution and it's going to change everything: http://slides.html5rocks.com/#landing-slide sounds like Amber can ride that wave, no? sebastian o/ |
Re: The html5 revolution
|
I don't see why it couldn't or could. Participating in "HTML5" is the least for anything that compiles to JavaScript. A language in itself is nothing. People use a language when this languages can be used to build something more "readily" than with another language.
C++ got popular because of Windows. Basic got popular because it was preinstalled and shipped with hardware. Ruby got popular because of Rails. Python got popular because of numpy and Django.
JavaScript got popular because of browsers. Objective-C got popular because of the iPhone. Java got popular because IBM picked it over Smalltalk for its business apps. Amber gets popular because of ..? Which niche does Amber fill? An answer we might like to give.
Sorry do be so negative. On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi guys, |
|
|
Honest criticism even negatvie criticism is healthy.
Amber gets popular because of Smalltalk. Smalltalk is half programming language and half development environment ... I know that I love Smalltalk because it brings me in close contact with the objects that I'm working with ... debuggers and inspectors are as important as the language itself ... Smalltalk suffers from a peculiar problem ... I'm tempted to call it something like the Shangri-La paradox ... It is fairly well known that you must work hard to get to know and appreciate Smalltalk ... You struggle and struggle and then one day you see the joy of Smalltalk ... However, once you have become a Smalltalk devotee you want to do everything in Smalltalk and "never leave" ... as a consequence not many folks spend time improving the route to Smalltalk ... it is left as a rocky hard route for the next person to discover... I'm not sure that I can articulate all of the little problems that make the route into and out of Smalltalk difficult...As usual these kinds of problems are not the sexy ones, they're the ones like cleaning toilets and sweeping in the corners:) However, I can say that Amber has addressed the "Smalltalk does not play well with other languages" very neatly by making access to javascript nearly seamless ... I appreciate Amber, because I can use google to find the solution to a problem in ajax or javascript and it is very simple to translate that solution into smalltalk ... so for me I get the best of both worlds: leveraging the javascript libraries while working in Smalltalk This is a real important aspect of Amber that needs to be preserved ... With regards to HTML5 I would think that if the Amber development environment for HTML5 applications was superior then that would attract more developers to Amber ... Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Amber Milan Eskridge" <[hidden email]> | To: [hidden email] | Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:55:27 AM | Subject: Re: [amber-lang] The html5 revolution | | | I don't see why it couldn't or could. Participating in "HTML5" is the | least for anything that compiles to JavaScript. A language in itself | is nothing. People use a language when this languages can be used to | build something more "readily" than with another language. | | | C++ got popular because of Windows. | Basic got popular because it was preinstalled and shipped with | hardware. | Ruby got popular because of Rails. | Python got popular because of numpy and Django. | | JavaScript got popular because of browsers. | Objective-C got popular because of the iPhone. | Java got popular because IBM picked it over Smalltalk for its | business apps. | | | Amber gets popular because of ..? Which niche does Amber fill? An | answer we might like to give. | | | Sorry do be so negative. | | | | On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Sebastian Sastre < | [hidden email] > wrote: | | | Hi guys, | | | this is the revolution and it's going to change everything: | http://slides.html5rocks.com/#landing-slide | | | | sounds like Amber can ride that wave, no? | | | sebastian | | | o/ | | | |
|
I can vouch for the great integration of Amber with HTML5, as I was able to develop a game framework in less than a month in my free time by using only Amber, and at that time I could barely code any decent Javascript.
HTML5 is just HTML plus a couple new tags plus Javascript, and Amber is good friends with Javascript and can render every possible tag, existant or nonexistant, so it already is 100% ready to ride the HTML5 wave!
Cheers! 2012/4/10 Dale Henrichs <[hidden email]> Honest criticism even negatvie criticism is healthy. Bernat Romagosa. |
|
|
In reply to this post by sebastianconcept
On 4/10/12, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi guys, > > this is the revolution and it's going to change everything: > http://slides.html5rocks.com/#landing-slide > > sounds like Amber can ride that wave, no? Yes, HTML5 is changing things --- gradually. People have to absorb the new options. Amber can make use of this. It can directly use JavaScript constructs and new browser features and thus make use of HTML5. HTML5 is often used as a cover term for first the HTML5 standard http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/ as such but as well for ECMA5script (released 2009, http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/ ECMA-262) and CSS3. There was no ECMA4script specification release. Version 5 directly follows the version 3 of 1999. IE9 supports HTML5 in this sense and all other modern web browsers do it as well. If you do not care about supporting IE8 and earlier web programming is a lot less complex. You can focus on using the web standards. They are comprehensive these days. Going for IE9 only is actually doable as IE9 was released in March 2011 and runs on Windows 7. Windows 7 came out in October 2009. So people with a machine not older than 30 months are ready to use HTML5 if they want to stay within the Microsoft world. All others have to install Firefox, Chrome or something else and can still go for HTML5 More links to HTML5 including a freely accessible online book by O’Reilly http://cnx.org/content/m41186/latest/ (feedback and questions are welcome) --Hannes |
|
|
In reply to this post by Amber Milan Eskridge
you're missing the point.
The story here is that you can use whatever you like to ride that wave. Who cares about popularity of a technology? you only should care about the popularity of your products.
In terms of technology, everything is niche these days. And people don't care what you're using. But this is going to change the game because fatty server side frameworks are dead (or zombies) so Amber is a real player in the new arena.
html5 is the revolution the servers' API are the new filesystem and the browser is the new hardware On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Amber Milan Eskridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
|
Re: The html5 revolution
|
|
Sebastian Sastre:
you're missing the point. Yes
Yes and No. Producing a product with a technology that is not as popular can become more tiresome. I strongly suggest the reading of
to get a glimpse of a similar situation. But I do agree. In many ways the productivity of Amber outweights its costs. (It did take me, however, double the time to reproduce a product I had done in Pharo with Amber – and I already had the problem description and so on…).
Yes (mostly)
Yes, see:
(A presentation of Avi)
Yes |
|
|
Hi,
IMO the mobile world is the one that takes full advantage of HTML5. And the mobile world is coming to our desktop (a laptop is "just" another mobile device). Amber seems a good candidate for rapid development cycle on mobile because of IDE, in-browser development, openness and performance control.
Laurent On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:47 AM, Amber Milan Eskridge <[hidden email]> wrote: Sebastian Sastre: |
Re: The html5 revolution
|
|
Here is one Example of a technology that reduces the "tiresomeness" of development:
http://docs.meteor.com/
On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:16 AM, laurent laffont <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi, |
|
|
In reply to this post by sebastianconcept
On Apr 10, 3:09 pm, Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>
wrote: > In terms of technology, *everything is niche these days*. And people don't > care what you're using. That's not always true. Certain technologies *cough Rails* receive more press and attention from particular sorts of investors than other technologies do. 37signals first made good products. Then they rode the wave of interest in Rails to boost their standing in the technical and business communities. "The end user" may not care about about the technology used during her day-to-day dealings with your software, but "the end user" is a real person who may very well benefit from knowing what technologies are in use today. > But this is going to change the game because fatty server side frameworks > are dead (or zombies) so Amber is a real player in the new arena. > > *html5 is the revolution* > > the servers' API are the new filesystem and the browser is the new hardware Yep. It's a great time to be pushing the boundaries of browser-based software. Amber is a great tool for that. Cheers, Pat |
|
|
In reply to this post by Amber Milan Eskridge
On 10 Apr., 17:55, Amber Milan Eskridge <[hidden email]> wrote: ... > > Amber gets popular because of ..? Which niche does Amber fill? An answer we > might like to give. > Amber gets popular because of giving programmers an in-browser development environment for both, abstract classes and concrete living objects. It lets you design your code right there, where it would be executed later. I don't know of any other web programming environment, being so compact and so straight forward object oriented AND so direct. Sure, there are lots of improvements, a refactoring browser, possibly class based committing besides package based, better inpection of blocks, multiple committable workspaces (read/write on the server), "File in" from the server, etc... Cheers... |
|
|
Old thread,... but a quite vital question to me right now. One thing I can remeber was Lukas Renggli's presentation of Seaside at OOP 2007 in Munich. At that time Smalltalkers (who knew a little about web programming) where blown away when one was able to debug a running web application. Changes instandly where there. The whole datamodel didn't change state and one didn't need to upload files .... With amber I stumbled over something quit similar. One s able to programm JS in Realtime. Since Stefan Krecher had a look at my ProcessingJS attempts and made them run, I sstarted to implement an Interface to the whole ProcessingJS API. Since ProcessingJS has it's rendering loop running one is now able to implement/extend/tweak Processing Sketches in realtime/while running. This can be a pain too ;-) but is shows the difference to other JS DEV IDEs very good. Maybe Amber becomes got popular because of realtime JS development Did anybody think of implementing a metro js based app with visual studio, defining all the events but then go on implementing the app logic with amber? While the app is running? This could be a real great demo... Sebastian
|
«
Return to Amber Smalltalk
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |