These beautiful tooltips

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
49 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

These beautiful tooltips

HilaireFernandes
Hi,

So in Pharo5 we have these 'beautiful' unreadable tooltips: tiny black
font on light gray (ie. take a look to its squeak counter part, it looks
so much more pro)

Is there a way to programmatically change the backround color?

Thanks

Hilaire

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

Ben Coman
Hi Hilaire,

Can you provide a screenshot comparison of these?

cheers -ben

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:22 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> So in Pharo5 we have these 'beautiful' unreadable tooltips: tiny black
> font on light gray (ie. take a look to its squeak counter part, it looks
> so much more pro)
>
> Is there a way to programmatically change the backround color?
>
> Thanks
>
> Hilaire
>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

HilaireFernandes
Hi Ben,

Here are Squeak and Pharo5 tooltips view.

In regard First impression count, it is a big loose for Pharo5. Well
this whole theme is horrible anyway, contrast is too low in too many part.

In the past I remember to have fix it (not sure) but really I'm fed up
of such negligence. I think something is not working properly in the
Pharo process release.

Another complain, why do we have now for Morph #setBallonText: and
#helpText: to set tooltips?

With my little resource, I am just itching the surface, I wonder how it
is deep underneath.

Thanks

Hilaire

Le 30/01/2017 à 15:56, Ben Coman a écrit :
> Hi Hilaire,
>
> Can you provide a screenshot comparison of these?

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu

Tooltip.png (11K) Download Attachment
SqueakTooltip.png (4K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

SergeStinckwich
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> Here are Squeak and Pharo5 tooltips view.
>
> In regard First impression count, it is a big loose for Pharo5. Well
> this whole theme is horrible anyway, contrast is too low in too many part.
>
> In the past I remember to have fix it (not sure) but really I'm fed up
> of such negligence. I think something is not working properly in the
> Pharo process release.
>
> Another complain, why do we have now for Morph #setBallonText: and
> #helpText: to set tooltips?
>
> With my little resource, I am just itching the surface, I wonder how it
> is deep underneath.

This is FOSS, you can always provide bug reports, enhancement commits
and propositions to ensure process quality.

--
Serge Stinckwich
UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC)
Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk
http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

kilon.alios
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
"So in Pharo5 we have these 'beautiful' unreadable tooltips: tiny black
font on light gray (ie. take a look to its squeak counter part, it looks
so much more pro)"

I am able to read the Pharo tooltips and I have a 6 degree myopia.

Sure they can be improved a lot I would not call them pretty but at least for me they are good enough to useful and they rarely bother me. 


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by SergeStinckwich
I don't buy this argument at all: tooltips were modified to become
unreadable, there are responsibility behind to be taken by someone.
FOSS is not an excuse for mere quality.

In the past I have to fix the WaterTheme because a merge was poorly done
at some point without obviously no visual testing of the consequences.

This is a poor way to do things, and it seems to occur too often in Pharo.

The only proposal I can do is that a careful review is needed before
release. Don't ask me how or who, I can't help much, but it is not a
reason to shut up.

Le 30/01/2017 à 17:08, Serge Stinckwich a écrit :
> This is FOSS, you can always provide bug reports, enhancement commits
> and propositions to ensure process quality.

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by kilon.alios
Does it make a difference? I guess you are wearing your glass when at
computer.

Le 30/01/2017 à 17:15, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
> I am able to read the Pharo tooltips and I have a 6 degree myopia.
>

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
> Le 30/01/2017 à 15:56, Ben Coman a écrit :
>> Hi Hilaire,
>>
>> Can you provide a screenshot comparison of these?

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 11:16 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> Here are Squeak and Pharo5 tooltips view.
>
> In regard First impression count, it is a big loose for Pharo5. Well
> this whole theme is horrible anyway, contrast is too low in too many part.
>
> In the past I remember to have fix it (not sure) but really I'm fed up
> of such negligence. I think something is not working properly in the
> Pharo process release.
>
> Another complain, why do we have now for Morph #setBallonText: and
> #helpText: to set tooltips?
>
> With my little resource, I am just itching the surface, I wonder how it
> is deep underneath.
Your Tooltip.png the text appears to be more dark grey than black.   I
can understand that being harder to read. But why is it dark grey?
On my system the text is blacker and I find that clear to read on on a
light grey background.

cheers -ben

PharoTooltip.png (5K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

Ben Coman
On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 1:37 AM, Ben Coman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Le 30/01/2017 à 15:56, Ben Coman a écrit :
>>> Hi Hilaire,
>>>
>>> Can you provide a screenshot comparison of these?
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 11:16 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Here are Squeak and Pharo5 tooltips view.
>>
>> In regard First impression count, it is a big loose for Pharo5. Well
>> this whole theme is horrible anyway, contrast is too low in too many part.
>>
>> In the past I remember to have fix it (not sure) but really I'm fed up
>> of such negligence. I think something is not working properly in the
>> Pharo process release.
>>
>> Another complain, why do we have now for Morph #setBallonText: and
>> #helpText: to set tooltips?
>>
>> With my little resource, I am just itching the surface, I wonder how it
>> is deep underneath.
>
> Your Tooltip.png the text appears to be more dark grey than black.   I
> can understand that being harder to read. But why is it dark grey?
> On my system the text is blacker and I find that clear to read on on a
> light grey background.
>
> cheers -ben

Actually mine also looks fuzzy in the web browser.  Opening both
snapshots with a native tool and comparing them, you font looks
different and slightly smaller.  I'm using default fonts.  Under
System > Settings > Standard Fonts > Balloon-help I have Source Sans
Pro Regular 9.  What is your setting?

cheers -ben

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by Ben Coman
Indeed font is different, but this one can be changed programmatically,
so can be fixed.
I am not sure the same can be done for the background, it is more
important to improve the contrast (for example yellow or even blue as it
was some release ago).

The Squeak tooltip is nice.

Hilaire

Le 30/01/2017 à 18:37, Ben Coman a écrit :
> Your Tooltip.png the text appears to be more dark grey than black.   I
> can understand that being harder to read. But why is it dark grey?
> On my system the text is blacker and I find that clear to read on on a
> light grey background.

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

HilaireFernandes
Well it can't.
So here is the fix for pharo6
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/edit/19627/

Le 30/01/2017 à 18:53, Hilaire a écrit :
> I am not sure the same can be done for the background, it is more
> important to improve the contrast (for example yellow or even blue as it
> was some release ago).

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't buy this argument at all: tooltips were modified to become
> unreadable, there are responsibility behind to be taken by someone.
> FOSS is not an excuse for mere quality.

The point is that people do FOSS to scratch their own itch, not
someone else's.  If you have an itch that you don't want to scratch
yourself, you need to pay someone to scratch it for you.

Now I have no problem with the tooltips.  I'm quite happy with them.
I know *nothing* about themes. They are not my itch.   However I do
value your work in the community with Dr Geo etc, so I've taken the
past hour to discover a hack to help you. Thats all it took to learn
how.  After all this is Pharo.
Try...

BalloonMorph setBalloonColorTo: Color yellow.

Or...

Pharo3Theme subclass: #Pharo3aTheme
   instanceVariableNames: ''
   classVariableNames: ''
   package: 'AAATheme'

Pharo3aTheme>>themeName
   ^ 'Pharo3a'

Pharo3aTheme>>newBalloonHelpIn: aThemedMorph contents:
aTextStringOrMorph for: aMorph corner: cornerSymbol
"Answer a new balloon help morph with the given text
and positioning for aMorph."
    ^ (super
            newBalloonHelpIn: aThemedMorph
            contents: aTextStringOrMorph
            for: aMorph
            corner: cornerSymbol)
        color: Color yellow muchLighter..

And then System > Settings > Appearance > User interface theme
  = Pharo3a

Does that work for you?

btw, I just saw your proposed fix to change UITheme>>balloonBackgroundColor.
It didn't work for me in 50761 or 60262.


cheers -ben


>
> In the past I have to fix the WaterTheme because a merge was poorly done
> at some point without obviously no visual testing of the consequences.
>
> This is a poor way to do things, and it seems to occur too often in Pharo.
>
> The only proposal I can do is that a careful review is needed before
> release. Don't ask me how or who, I can't help much, but it is not a
> reason to shut up.
>
> Le 30/01/2017 à 17:08, Serge Stinckwich a écrit :
>> This is FOSS, you can always provide bug reports, enhancement commits
>> and propositions to ensure process quality.
>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

kilon.alios
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 7:35 PM Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does it make a difference? I guess you are wearing your glass when at
computer.

Le 30/01/2017 à 17:15, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
> I am able to read the Pharo tooltips and I have a 6 degree myopia.
>

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu


Of course it does, glasses greatly improve the problem, they do not make it go away.

Even with glasses there is still some myopia left, because I do not change glasses with every small change in myopia, plus my doctor always gives me lower degree glasses to avoid strain on the eyes, apparently perfect vision glasses strain the myopic eye for some reason.

"I don't buy this argument at all: tooltips were modified to become
unreadable, there are responsibility behind to be taken by someone.
FOSS is not an excuse for mere quality."

This implies that commercial software does not have crappy GUI, to my experience 90% of it does. Mainly because the GUI is for some weird reason always a low priority in software development.

Also being a FOSS is an excuse for mere quality.

FOSS is about working for free

people do not like working for free
 
Thus its really hard to find developers for FOSS

Thus it takes a very long time to fix long standing problems , even ones that are easy to fix.

Its not an excuse

its a reason and a fact of life.

I would love if people stop demanding stuff out of the blue in FOSS and for some weird reason expect that they will magically happen.

Sure I can go in and fix this now for Pharo

Will I do it ? Nope

None will pay me to do it so I rather work on my own projects which I find far more enjoyable anyway.

The last time I fixed a bug in Pharo , there was so much complaining about the way I fixed it that I decided that it would be the very last contribution I did, bug fixing wise.

Working on Pharo documentation for some reason has been far smoother experiencer for me, maybe because experienced Pharo coders do not care about beginner orientated documentation.

Obviously if I find a bug that really bothers me , I will go in an fix, but so far cannot say I have found such a big. Auto completion is the one that annoys me the most, but still can live with it.

Thank you for contributing to Pharo with this fix :)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by Ben Coman
Thanks Ben.

Le 30/01/2017 à 19:22, Ben Coman a écrit :
> BalloonMorph setBalloonColorTo: Color yellow.

I did not know this one. Btw this method name is awful, #ballonColor:
would have made it just fine

>
> Or...
>
> Pharo3Theme subclass: #Pharo3aTheme

I know this one, and I want to avoid it. But thanks again.

> Does that work for you?

Sure the former one will do it for Phratch.

>
> btw, I just saw your proposed fix to change UITheme>>balloonBackgroundColor.
> It didn't work for me in 50761 or 60262.

I have to switch theme back and forth.


--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by kilon.alios
Le 30/01/2017 à 19:46, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
> Of course it does, glasses greatly improve the problem, they do not make
> it go away.

[..]

Ok, I was just bugging you on this one.


> "I don't buy this argument at all: tooltips were modified to become
> unreadable, there are responsibility behind to be taken by someone.
> FOSS is not an excuse for mere quality."
>
> This implies that commercial software does not have crappy GUI, to my
> experience 90% of it does. Mainly because the GUI is for some weird

This is your say not mine. Free software to get success really need to
have strong argument.


> Also being a FOSS is an excuse for mere quality.

No, free software is like Darwinism, evolve and adapt to your ecosystem
or disappear, same for proprietary software but...

...free software contrary to proprietary software may evolve more easily
because of the source code at the disposal of everyone, so evolution and
adaptation is easier, quicker. This is exactly what happen to Squeak,
then the Pharo fork was the promise for a better software with a
different management and more software evolution. In the long term
Squeak may just be better, nothing is written in stone as in evolution.
Pharo to attract more users in its community has no choice but to
improve its overall quality; and as well the first impression count,
little details can make some important different to retain users.

For example in DrGeo, without affordable tooltips, people will just run
it then go away, no obvious way to figure out this mess.

> FOSS is about working for free

Again no :) There is paid people like in proprietary software and the
bonus of unpaid talented or less talented people. Don't think the unpaid
people are the looser, they may gain other important things like
learning and improving own knowledge, experimenting/implementing new
idea (got several case like that in DrGeo history), improving
self-confidence, improving the part you need for your onw
stuff/business, etc.

So all in all, in the long term I think free software should be superior
in quality and affordability to proprietary software.


> The last time I fixed a bug in Pharo , there was so much complaining
> about the way I fixed it that I decided that it would be the very last

But I bet you learn things, especially when people were complaining: its
was feedbacks, as the tooltips in the GUI provide it ;)

Hilaire

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

kilon.alios

Ok, I was just bugging you on this one.

I feel abused, shame on you :D 
 
This is your say not mine. Free software to get success really need to
have strong argument.

Actually the GUI is a a well documented problem, many blog post and many pages have been written by , maybe I am a minority but I definitely not the only on. 
> Also being a FOSS is an excuse for mere quality.

No, free software is like Darwinism, evolve and adapt to your ecosystem
or disappear, same for proprietary software but...

...free software contrary to proprietary software may evolve more easily
because of the source code at the disposal of everyone, so evolution and
adaptation is easier, quicker. This is exactly what happen to Squeak,
then the Pharo fork was the promise for a better software with a
different management and more software evolution. In the long term
Squeak may just be better, nothing is written in stone as in evolution.
Pharo to attract more users in its community has no choice but to
improve its overall quality; and as well the first impression count,
little details can make some important different to retain users.

To an extend yes FOSS is easier to move forward because it does not need money to have contributors.

BUT

That does not change the fact that it tends to has a lot less contributors than commercial software.

Also no , FOSS will survive if does not evolve, it will lose users yes, maybe a lot of them but also a lot of people will keep using it because its free.

There are still people out there coding for 30 year old technology, a small minority yes, but still tens of thousands of coders.

Squeak situation was not about not wanting to evolve it was about people wanting to go different directions. Squeak still evolves , maybe not at the rate that it used to but still people contribute to it.

Personally I do not blame the Squeakers or the Pharoers, it was the right choice to fork, those two different ideologies were really hard to live under one roof.
 
For example in DrGeo, without affordable tooltips, people will just run
it then go away, no obvious way to figure out this mess

I think you put too much value to tooltips than they deserve, I will take a well documented , easy to maintained software without any tooltips over a badly documented hard to maintain software  with tooltips anyday.

Ask your users, what you and I think is of little important, in the end they matter the most. There is a reason why companies spend a ridiculous amount of money on customer surveys.
 
Again no :) There is paid people like in proprietary software and the
bonus of unpaid talented or less talented people. Don't think the unpaid
people are the looser, they may gain other important things like
learning and improving own knowledge, experimenting/implementing new
idea (got several case like that in DrGeo history), improving
self-confidence, improving the part you need for your onw
stuff/business, etc.

So all in all, in the long term I think free software should be superior
in quality and affordability to proprietary software.

 
That's just wishful thinking, in end , work is work and the more people you have the easier it is to move forward. I did not say working for free makes you a loser, dont put words in my mouth.

Not that it would make sense to claim so being a very active contributor to Pharo. I may not have done a lot with bug fixing but I have done a ton of work with PBE. Does that make me a loser ?

But the truth remains that there are only 3 people working part time on PBE, me , Stef and Nicolai with other contributing even less part time. We are not enough, over idealize all you want FOSS but the truth is at least in the documentation department where I have a lot of experience we have a severe lack of contributors. Its a huge problem to say to newcomers that we do not even have an up to date general purpose introductory book. It has been almost a decade of Pharo and we are not there yet. Its sad but true. On the other hand , its none's fault , thats how things are with FOSS.

So no idea why you would think our documentation should be superior when we have such a hard time to find people and of course the ones we have cannot invest more than a few hours per week if we are lucky.

Where is this superiority you claiming, I definitely not see it.
 

> The last time I fixed a bug in Pharo , there was so much complaining
> about the way I fixed it that I decided that it would be the very last

But I bet you learn things, especially when people were complaining: its
was feedbacks, as the tooltips in the GUI provide it ;)


Yes I learned that being egocentric is not such a bad idea afterall, no the feedback did not help, it was just personal opinion and personal opinion is just taste.

Some people wanted this way, some people wanted the other way. Personally I was ok with both approaches or my fix not being accepted. In the end my fix was integrated and later on was replaced.  In the mean time everyone forgot the whole discussion and life goes on.

Truth be told , I have learned a ton about Pharo by myself than with the help of others. Its really hard to find people with similar interests like mine and I have to go and explore by myself unless of course I came against a general problem, like tooltips, but I rarely am so lucky. Of course the help of this list has been extremely valuable through the years for me.

Using Pharo is a lot fun but it also a ton of DIY. But you cannot have your cake and eat it too. I have been several times close to quitting Pharo but I never did it , mainly because I became more confident about myself and my ability to solve my own problems.  I learned that sometimes you have to truth yourself and take the deep dive into the unknown.

This is why I rarely complain about Pharo, apart for my occasional bursts of frustration.

Saying all that I must note I am a huge supporter of open source because I believe in the extreme importance of open knowledge and I am proud to be part of the Pharo community.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

Paul DeBruicker
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
One way to address this going forward is for theme developers to check their color selections against the e.g. Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/)

Using a readily available tool:

https://leaverou.github.io/contrast-ratio/


And/or one that makes suggestions of contrasting colors for a palette:

http://colorsafe.co


And all themes could be subject to passing at a minimum contrast grade (AA seems not too hard?) before being added to the core. And in that way we have a standard of 'good enough' that is more widely accepted than 'works on my machine, for my eyes, in this physical space, with this ambient lighting'


Paul






HilaireFernandes wrote
Hi,

So in Pharo5 we have these 'beautiful' unreadable tooltips: tiny black
font on light gray (ie. take a look to its squeak counter part, it looks
so much more pro)

Is there a way to programmatically change the backround color?

Thanks

Hilaire

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

philippeback
Well there is no subclass of GLMBrickColorThemer so dark themes get hardcoded light colors in places for example.

The Sublimish theme revealed these kind of problems. I am busy investigating.

I made such a subclass and it is used by #colors now. Was missing.

GLM stuff should use UITheme current xxxColor items whenever possible.

Also we should have a way to reset its color registry that is cached and makes it hard to do things especially in a playground that uses it...

Maybe Brick can help in the future with a clean skinning and color theme setup. Especially if Bloc can do whatever window shape (pours oil on the fire...).

Phil

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:08 AM, Paul DeBruicker <[hidden email]> wrote:
One way to address this going forward is for theme developers to check their
color selections against the e.g. Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
(https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/)

Using a readily available tool:

https://leaverou.github.io/contrast-ratio/


And/or one that makes suggestions of contrasting colors for a palette:

http://colorsafe.co


And all themes could be subject to passing at a minimum contrast grade (AA
seems not too hard?) before being added to the core. And in that way we have
a standard of 'good enough' that is more widely accepted than 'works on my
machine, for my eyes, in this physical space, with this ambient lighting'


Paul







HilaireFernandes wrote
> Hi,
>
> So in Pharo5 we have these 'beautiful' unreadable tooltips: tiny black
> font on light gray (ie. take a look to its squeak counter part, it looks
> so much more pro)
>
> Is there a way to programmatically change the backround color?
>
> Thanks
>
> Hilaire
>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu





--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/These-beautiful-tooltips-tp4932206p4932319.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

HilaireFernandes
I would like to help in both accessibility and implementation detail of
the theme. In the other hand I fell we are in such flux with the future
UI in Pharo. What are the grounds we can stand on regarding UI?

Hilaire

Le 31/01/2017 à 11:21, [hidden email] a
écrit :
> Well there is no subclass of GLMBrickColorThemer so dark themes get
> hardcoded light colors in places for example.
>

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: These beautiful tooltips

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:15 AM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Le 30/01/2017 à 19:22, Ben Coman a écrit :
>> BalloonMorph setBalloonColorTo: Color yellow.
>
> I did not know this one. Btw this method name is awful, #ballonColor:
> would have made it just fine

I think it is meant to be used very rarely.  It sets class variable
holding the default colour.

>> btw, I just saw your proposed fix to change UITheme>>balloonBackgroundColor.
>> It didn't work for me in 50761 or 60262.

That worked.

Now personally I don't really like yellow there for the tooltip.  I
think it clashes with the blue-ness of the rest of the theme.

To keep in harmony with the blue of the theme? how would you consider
the tooltip matching the selection colour...
  Pharo3Theme>>balloonBackgroundColor
      ^self selectionColor.

or slightly lighter like this...
    Pharo3Theme>>balloonBackgroundColor
      ^Color cyan muchlighter.

Any opinions from the rest of the community on making one of those two default?

cheers -ben

Tooltip-Yellow-muchLighter.png (62K) Download Attachment
Tooltip-self-selectionColor.png (62K) Download Attachment
Tooltip-cyan-muchlighter.png (62K) Download Attachment
123