To be able to work without GT-Playground
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To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools
I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars MCSmalltalkhubRepository owner: 'StephaneDucasse' project: 'PetitsBazars' user: '' password: '' So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave. So so productive! But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground Stef _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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On 26 Jun 2014, at 09:31, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote: > To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools > I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at > > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars > > > MCSmalltalkhubRepository > owner: 'StephaneDucasse' > project: 'PetitsBazars' > user: '' > password: '' > > > So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave. > So so productive! > > But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground Maybe it was easier to take unmodified image and install things that you need rather than uninstalling broken stuff? Just my 2 cents :) Uko > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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On 26/6/14 09:36, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote: > On 26 Jun 2014, at 09:31, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools >> I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at >> >> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars >> >> >> MCSmalltalkhubRepository >> owner: 'StephaneDucasse' >> project: 'PetitsBazars' >> user: '' >> password: '' >> >> >> So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave. >> So so productive! >> >> But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground > Maybe it was easier to take unmodified image and install things that you need rather than uninstalling broken stuff? > Just my 2 cents :) yes I will do that and probably set up my own Moose distribution. I guess that this is what you did so many be we should share knowledge my problem is that I want to debug snapshotCello on moose. Stef > > Uko > >> Stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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On 26 Jun 2014, at 09:42, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
The thing is that after loading all packages current build job runs magical script that sets up theme, tools and so on. Now moose-less image is archived before this script is being run. So then I can set up the inspector and so on by myself, while everything other remains like in vanilla pharo. Uko
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Where is your ci?
Because Hi yuri where is your ci? Because moose is becoming bloated and I think that we should rethink it. Stef
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It's on the original Moose job, just another archive called moose-less.zip The problem is not in Moose. It's even not in the tools, but for now Pharo doesn't provide a good configuration mechanics. I would prefer to be asked when I start the image for the first time if I want to use the alternative theme or tools. And if I don't, I'd prefer to stay with my own setup. We don't have this, and Moose job configures the image for everyone (without asking of course). That's I archive the image before the script is being run, so I can download it and set it up for myself. For example I use dark theme and apple fonts, but I can't force others to use my configuration. Uko Sent from my iPhone
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In reply to this post by stepharo
I have followed other threads about GT from far away. I do not really understand what people do not like with GT.
I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in Chile share this impression by the way. Alexandre On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote: > To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools > I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at > > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars > > > MCSmalltalkhubRepository > owner: 'StephaneDucasse' > project: 'PetitsBazars' > user: '' > password: '' > > > So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave. > So so productive! > > But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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On 26 Jun 2014, at 14:37, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > I have followed other threads about GT from far away. I do not really understand what people do not like with GT. > I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in Chile share this impression by the way. I don’t like the debugger. I have no idea why. But as for me, the problem is not in the GT tools them selves, but in the lack of possibility to decide. Uko > > Alexandre > > > > On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools >> I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at >> >> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars >> >> >> MCSmalltalkhubRepository >> owner: 'StephaneDucasse' >> project: 'PetitsBazars' >> user: '' >> password: '' >> >> >> So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave. >> So so productive! >> >> But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground >> Stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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The problem I have with the debugger, is that it is a bit slow. But the colored list and being able to press Cmd-O within it is amazing…
Alexandre
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_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:41 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: To be able to work without GT-Playground
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I also noted that it is slower than I would want it to be, but I am not sure why it is the case. We should measure that. Cheers, Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Every thing has its own flow"
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Re: To be able to work without GT-Playground
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I'm almost sure it has something to do with displaying a MethodContext within the inspector.
I'll have a look. Cheers, Andrei On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Uko2
For me I think that Moose is bloated.
There are far too many packages loaded by default XML NeoCSV .... Stef On 26/6/14 12:49, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote:
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In reply to this post by abergel
> I have followed other threads about GT from far away. I do not really understand what people do not like with GT. > I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in Chile share this impression by the way. I cannot select text. If you can then this is excellent for you. Now WHY SHOULD I BE FORCED TO USE something that does not work with me when I'm debugging the system? You know Windows is really great until a syst admin force you to use it. Stef > Alexandre > > > > On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools >> I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at >> >> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars >> >> >> MCSmalltalkhubRepository >> owner: 'StephaneDucasse' >> project: 'PetitsBazars' >> user: '' >> password: '' >> >> >> So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave. >> So so productive! >> >> But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground >> Stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
Re: To be able to work without GT-Playground
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In reply to this post by stepharo
Hi Stef, Moose is right now bloated because it has two versions of Roassal and two of Graph-ET. But, XML is a prerequisite in the business of analysis. I am still to encounter a serious analysis project that did not involve some XML. Actually, at this point, as Moose gets to be used in all sorts of non-code related projects, I feel more that FAMIX makes the system bloated.
Cheers, Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:30 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Every thing has its own flow"
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In reply to this post by Uko2
> On 26 Jun 2014, at 14:37, Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> I have followed other threads about GT from far away. I do not really understand what people do not like with GT. >> I find GTPlayground and the inspector truly fantastic. Most people in Chile share this impression by the way. > I don’t like the debugger. I have no idea why. But as for me, the problem is not in the GT tools them selves, but in the lack of possibility to decide. + 1000 I do not force people to use linux/mac or windows so why all my tools should be changed when I nicely try to fix this system and kill my productivity. Or Moosers here is what we can do. You pay me this is around 800 Euros a day and I can go slowly and work with any tools you want even bogus ones. Stef > > Uko > >> Alexandre >> >> >> >> On Jun 26, 2014, at 3:31 AM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> To be able to work without GT-Playground hijaking all our default tools >>> I did a small package called FixMooseCrap available at >>> >>> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephaneDucasse/PetitsBazars >>> >>> >>> MCSmalltalkhubRepository >>> owner: 'StephaneDucasse' >>> project: 'PetitsBazars' >>> user: '' >>> password: '' >>> >>> >>> So now after more than one hour I will be able to focus on the snapshotcello problem and now of course I should start to leave. >>> So so productive! >>> >>> But now I know to remove the white theme, change the shout style, remove playground >>> Stef >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Moose-dev mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> [hidden email] >> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > [hidden email] > https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev > _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by abergel
On 26/6/14 15:40, Alexandre Bergel
wrote:
The problem I have with the debugger, is that it is a bit slow. But the colored list and being able to press Cmd-O within it is amazing… The problem is that the icons are not using all the space and we have to learn them. I propose you put the names and the logos. Then it is slow and some key bindings do not work and I often arrive in situations where I cannot even get button/menu or whatever. With igor we were pissed off the last time for just ofr the sake of it. We were debugging font problems that Moose people could have solved simply. Because there is no magic a registration mechanism was missing. What is cmd-o Stef
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In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2
This is plain wrong. Load a package when you need it. I would unload Hismo, FAMIX-C, and keep the minimum and not a kitchen sink. Else you should load also JSON and many others. Even the moose Algos should be loaded on demand. You are not lucid on the problem. You are like these old smalltalkers that do not understand anything to modularity. We can have a small moose image where we test that a given list of EXTERNAL packages loads correctly and run well the tests but are not shipped by default but loadable in one click. You confuse the system and its cache. Repeat after me: an image is a cache. Why there is not a metacello browser just for loading moose certified packages? Because this is the way to go for Pharo and also for Moose. Moose is becoming untractable. I spent the day trying to find why we cannot snapshot a version of each package and it I do not find how to make it work with MC. I will go back to my ugly solution (but this is raging because snapshotcello was an important element) to me it should be part of metacello. But metacello is probably far too complex too. Stef
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Re: To be able to work without GT-Playground
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Hi Stef, Of course the image is a cache, but I do not understand what you are referring to. We do not develop Moose by copying images around. We load lots of configurations. I agree that we should refactor some of them, and we should remove some of them. Hismo is indeed a good candidate for removing.
But, still the goal of a distribution is to pack together code that brings enough value for a certain audience. And, XML is so pervasive, at least in the projects I was exposed to, that it does not make much sense to claim easy data analysis without supporting it out of the box. Btw, JSON starts to be a candidate as well :).
Btw, from a pragmatic point of view, why do you necessarily need to ignoreImage?
Cheers, Doru On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Every thing has its own flow"
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In reply to this post by stepharo
It open an inspector embedded within the debugger. this is ultra cool, seriously.
I made a contrived example here: There is really something great in the GT tools. At the very beginning I was not convinced of it. Now I am fully. Alexandre
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_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. _______________________________________________ Moose-dev mailing list [hidden email] https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/moose-dev |
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In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2
Ok so I'm sad because you miss my point, so reread my mail.
Why should these tools be loaded? Why can't they be loaded on demand?
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