TreadSafeTranscript proposal

> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I would really like that we get a threadSafeTranscript so I coded  
>> one.
>> If you can comment this would help me.
>>
>> Stef
> What is the difference tot he exisitng one, it has an access  
> semaphore too.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
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> Stef
>
> On Mar 29, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
>
>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I would really like that we get a threadSafeTranscript so I coded
>>> one.
>>> If you can comment this would help me.
>>>
>>> Stef
>> What is the difference tot he exisitng one, it has an access
>> semaphore too.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> 2009/3/29 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> did you check what the semaphore critical section is protecting?
>>        cr, tab, nextPutAll: and more and not protected.
>>
>> then transcriptStream inherits from stream which is not threadsafe,  
>> so
>> everything can happen.
>> I think that having a real thread safe output is a must.
>>
>
> as well as thread-safe updating.
> Btw, take a look at the http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7033
>
> The way how Transcript window updates itself is not safe. It should
> use deferUIMessage to update itself using regular world cycle.
>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
>>
>>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I would really like that we get a threadSafeTranscript so I coded
>>>> one.
>>>> If you can comment this would help me.
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>> What is the difference tot he exisitng one, it has an access
>>> semaphore too.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> Stef
> On Mar 29, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> 2009/3/29 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>> did you check what the semaphore critical section is protecting?
>>>        cr, tab, nextPutAll: and more and not protected.
>>>
>>> then transcriptStream inherits from stream which is not threadsafe,
>>> so
>>> everything can happen.
>>> I think that having a real thread safe output is a must.
>>>
>>
>> as well as thread-safe updating.
>> Btw, take a look at the http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7033
>>
>> The way how Transcript window updates itself is not safe. It should
>> use deferUIMessage to update itself using regular world cycle.
>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I would really like that we get a threadSafeTranscript so I coded
>>>>> one.
>>>>> If you can comment this would help me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>> What is the difference tot he exisitng one, it has an access
>>>> semaphore too.
>>>>
>>>> Keith
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> 2009/3/29 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> Igor
>> your change is already in pharo :)
>> since months :)
>
> Yes, but method i changes is not related in particular to Transcript.
> The change applies to all users of PluggableTextMorph.
>
> But as for thread-safe transcript, you need to be careful when you
> sending #changed message (each time you printing something - it sends
> this message), because it using a notification mechanism to tell
> listeners that there is something changed.
> Maybe its worth adding #synchronousChanged method to Object
> which guards from entry by multiple threads(processes) simueltaneously.
>
>> Stef
>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>>> 2009/3/29 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>> did you check what the semaphore critical section is protecting?
>>>>        cr, tab, nextPutAll: and more and not protected.
>>>>
>>>> then transcriptStream inherits from stream which is not threadsafe,
>>>> so
>>>> everything can happen.
>>>> I think that having a real thread safe output is a must.
>>>>
>>>
>>> as well as thread-safe updating.
>>> Btw, take a look at the http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7033
>>>
>>> The way how Transcript window updates itself is not safe. It should
>>> use deferUIMessage to update itself using regular world cycle.
>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would really like that we get a threadSafeTranscript so I coded
>>>>>> one.
>>>>>> If you can comment this would help me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stef
>>>>> What is the difference tot he exisitng one, it has an access
>>>>> semaphore too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keith
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>

> 2009/3/29 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> Igor
>> your change is already in pharo :)
>> since months :)
>
> Yes, but method i changes is not related in particular to Transcript.
> The change applies to all users of PluggableTextMorph.
>
> But as for thread-safe transcript, you need to be careful when you
> sending #changed message (each time you printing something - it sends
> this message), because it using a notification mechanism to tell
> listeners that there is something changed.
> Maybe its worth adding #synchronousChanged method to Object
> which guards from entry by multiple threads(processes)  
> simueltaneously.

>
>
>> Stef
>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>>> 2009/3/29 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>> did you check what the semaphore critical section is protecting?
>>>>        cr, tab, nextPutAll: and more and not protected.
>>>>
>>>> then transcriptStream inherits from stream which is not threadsafe,
>>>> so
>>>> everything can happen.
>>>> I think that having a real thread safe output is a must.
>>>>
>>>
>>> as well as thread-safe updating.
>>> Btw, take a look at the http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7033
>>>
>>> The way how Transcript window updates itself is not safe. It should
>>> use deferUIMessage to update itself using regular world cycle.
>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would really like that we get a threadSafeTranscript so I coded
>>>>>> one.
>>>>>> If you can comment this would help me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stef
>>>>> What is the difference tot he exisitng one, it has an access
>>>>> semaphore too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keith
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- 
>>>>> project
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> did you check what the semaphore critical section is protecting?
> cr, tab, nextPutAll: and more and not protected.
>
> then transcriptStream inherits from stream which is not threadsafe, so  
> everything can happen.
> I think that having a real thread safe output is a must.
>
> Stef
>
>  

> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>> did you check what the semaphore critical section is protecting?
>> cr, tab, nextPutAll: and more and not protected.
>>
>> then transcriptStream inherits from stream which is not threadsafe,  
>> so
>> everything can happen.
>> I think that having a real thread safe output is a must.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>
> Excellent,
>
> please would you publish as an external package, perhaps Tools-
> Transcript
>
> thanks
>
> Keith
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> Yes but I want to kill the old crappy one. so it cannot be an external
> package :)
>
> On Mar 29, 2009, at 8:42 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
>
>> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>> did you check what the semaphore critical section is protecting?
>>>      cr, tab, nextPutAll: and more and not protected.
>>>
>>> then transcriptStream inherits from stream which is not threadsafe,
>>> so
>>> everything can happen.
>>> I think that having a real thread safe output is a must.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>>
>> Excellent,
>>
>> please would you publish as an external package, perhaps Tools-
>> Transcript
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> On 3/30/09, Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> Hi
>>
>> I would really like that we get a threadSafeTranscript so I coded one.
>> If you can comment this would help me.
>>    
>
> Personally, I'd replace the Transcript with a logging system. The
> global variable "Transcript" could be replaced with a logger wrapper.
>
> Gulik.
>  

> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>> Yes but I want to kill the old crappy one. so it cannot be an  
>> external
>> package :)
>>
> Why not? I thought that pharo was supposed to be modular.
>
> Keith
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

>> Hi
>>
>> I would really like that we get a threadSafeTranscript so I coded  
>> one.
>> If you can comment this would help me.
>
> Personally, I'd replace the Transcript with a logging system. The
> global variable "Transcript" could be replaced with a logger wrapper.
>
> Gulik.
>
> --
> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

> Yes could be good
>
> So you would write what
>
> Logger default ....
>
> we could do the same for Transcript but breaks a lot of code and  
> books. but indeed using a toothpick
> could be nice.
>
> Stef