UFFI problem / doubt

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UFFI problem / doubt

alvaro piorno
Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to it.
I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.

This is the "new " ffiCall :
    self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))

And this is a "seter" ffiCall:

    self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).

I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a problem with what i have in Pharo.
Any suggestion?
Thanks in advance.

Alvaro Piorno
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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

Stephane Ducasse-3
Hi alvaro

Thanks for the question. If you have any suggestion for the booklet on
UFFI let us know.
I will let esteban anwser because I do not know.
BTW did you check the chipmunk existing bindings?

Stef

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:42 PM, alvaro piorno
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
> I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to it.
> I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.
>
> This is the "new " ffiCall :
>     self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>
> And this is a "seter" ffiCall:
>
>     self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).
>
> I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
> I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a problem
> with what i have in Pharo.
> Any suggestion?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Alvaro Piorno

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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

alvaro piorno
Hi Stephan,
Thanks for your answer, i found the booklet, but it was a draft, so it was incomplete. An example of FFIOpaqueObject would be healpful, i think.
Esteban already talked to me, and is helping me with this.
What do you mean with "Chipmunk existing bindings" ?.

2017-09-16 4:42 GMT-03:00 Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
Hi alvaro

Thanks for the question. If you have any suggestion for the booklet on
UFFI let us know.
I will let esteban anwser because I do not know.
BTW did you check the chipmunk existing bindings?

Stef

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:42 PM, alvaro piorno
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
> I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to it.
> I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.
>
> This is the "new " ffiCall :
>     self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>
> And this is a "seter" ffiCall:
>
>     self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).
>
> I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
> I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a problem
> with what i have in Pharo.
> Any suggestion?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Alvaro Piorno


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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

Pierce Ng-3
On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 09:09:23AM -0300, alvaro piorno wrote:
> incomplete. An example of FFIOpaqueObject would be healpful, i think.

Hi Alvaro,

I mentioned libffidemo on Discord. Reading the blog post and the library's unit
tests will hopefully make clearer how to use FFIOpaqueObject.

  http://www.samadhiweb.com/blog/2016.03.17.demoffi.html
  https://github.com/PierceNg/libffidemo

Pierce


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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

Stephane Ducasse-3
In reply to this post by alvaro piorno
Jean-Baptiste Arnaud extended the Chipmunk binding that esteban did a
while ago and Damien Pollet did a tutorial
at ESUG Annecy to show how to use FFI (nativeboost) to call chipmunk
so it should be around.

Stef

On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 2:09 PM, alvaro piorno
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Stephan,
> Thanks for your answer, i found the booklet, but it was a draft, so it was
> incomplete. An example of FFIOpaqueObject would be healpful, i think.
> Esteban already talked to me, and is helping me with this.
> What do you mean with "Chipmunk existing bindings" ?.
>
> 2017-09-16 4:42 GMT-03:00 Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Hi alvaro
>>
>> Thanks for the question. If you have any suggestion for the booklet on
>> UFFI let us know.
>> I will let esteban anwser because I do not know.
>> BTW did you check the chipmunk existing bindings?
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:42 PM, alvaro piorno
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
>> > I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to
>> > it.
>> > I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.
>> >
>> > This is the "new " ffiCall :
>> >     self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>> >
>> > And this is a "seter" ffiCall:
>> >
>> >     self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).
>> >
>> > I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
>> > I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a
>> > problem
>> > with what i have in Pharo.
>> > Any suggestion?
>> > Thanks in advance.
>> >
>> > Alvaro Piorno
>>
>

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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

Stephane Ducasse-3
Look at http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~estebanlm/Storm

A small game engine.

For being able to use this you will need:

NB capable VM.
Athens.
Chipmunk library. You can download it at Chipmunk

On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Stephane Ducasse
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jean-Baptiste Arnaud extended the Chipmunk binding that esteban did a
> while ago and Damien Pollet did a tutorial
> at ESUG Annecy to show how to use FFI (nativeboost) to call chipmunk
> so it should be around.
>
> Stef
>
> On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 2:09 PM, alvaro piorno
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Stephan,
>> Thanks for your answer, i found the booklet, but it was a draft, so it was
>> incomplete. An example of FFIOpaqueObject would be healpful, i think.
>> Esteban already talked to me, and is helping me with this.
>> What do you mean with "Chipmunk existing bindings" ?.
>>
>> 2017-09-16 4:42 GMT-03:00 Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> Hi alvaro
>>>
>>> Thanks for the question. If you have any suggestion for the booklet on
>>> UFFI let us know.
>>> I will let esteban anwser because I do not know.
>>> BTW did you check the chipmunk existing bindings?
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:42 PM, alvaro piorno
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> > Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
>>> > I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to
>>> > it.
>>> > I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.
>>> >
>>> > This is the "new " ffiCall :
>>> >     self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>>> >
>>> > And this is a "seter" ffiCall:
>>> >
>>> >     self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).
>>> >
>>> > I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
>>> > I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a
>>> > problem
>>> > with what i have in Pharo.
>>> > Any suggestion?
>>> > Thanks in advance.
>>> >
>>> > Alvaro Piorno
>>>
>>

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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

EstebanLM
yes, he is using that.
but he is porting it yo UFFI (it was NB) and to 64bits and to Chipmunk 7.0 (it was 6.1)

So… in one of those places, is failing :(

Esteban

> On 17 Sep 2017, at 13:32, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Look at http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~estebanlm/Storm
>
> A small game engine.
>
> For being able to use this you will need:
>
> NB capable VM.
> Athens.
> Chipmunk library. You can download it at Chipmunk
>
> On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Stephane Ducasse
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Jean-Baptiste Arnaud extended the Chipmunk binding that esteban did a
>> while ago and Damien Pollet did a tutorial
>> at ESUG Annecy to show how to use FFI (nativeboost) to call chipmunk
>> so it should be around.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 2:09 PM, alvaro piorno
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Stephan,
>>> Thanks for your answer, i found the booklet, but it was a draft, so it was
>>> incomplete. An example of FFIOpaqueObject would be healpful, i think.
>>> Esteban already talked to me, and is helping me with this.
>>> What do you mean with "Chipmunk existing bindings" ?.
>>>
>>> 2017-09-16 4:42 GMT-03:00 Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>>
>>>> Hi alvaro
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the question. If you have any suggestion for the booklet on
>>>> UFFI let us know.
>>>> I will let esteban anwser because I do not know.
>>>> BTW did you check the chipmunk existing bindings?
>>>>
>>>> Stef
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:42 PM, alvaro piorno
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
>>>>> I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to
>>>>> it.
>>>>> I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the "new " ffiCall :
>>>>>    self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>>>>>
>>>>> And this is a "seter" ffiCall:
>>>>>
>>>>>    self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).
>>>>>
>>>>> I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
>>>>> I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a
>>>>> problem
>>>>> with what i have in Pharo.
>>>>> Any suggestion?
>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alvaro Piorno
>>>>
>>>
>


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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by alvaro piorno

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:42 PM, alvaro piorno <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to it.
I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.

This is the "new " ffiCall :
    self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))

And this is a "seter" ffiCall:

    self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).

I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a problem with what i have in Pharo.

A general approach might be to write your own C wrapper around Chipmunk library functions which 
just does a debug printout of parameters before calling the wrapped function.
Use these for both from Pharo and your "direct" trial, and see how they compare.

cheers -ben

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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

alvaro piorno
Pierce: I already see the repo, i kwnow now the difference and is not the problem i have now. I made the suggestion for book draft i found, because theres is no example on it. Thanks for answer.

Stephan : Yes, as Esteban said i´m using that, I´m extending (or trying) Esteban´s project. And i´m having the problem that esteban metioned. Thanks for answer.

Ben: I have in C the same example as in Pharo using the physics of CHipmunk, and in C is working fine, there is a problem in the call to the function from Pharo in 64 bits. Thanks for answer.


2017-09-17 12:11 GMT-03:00 Ben Coman <[hidden email]>:

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:42 PM, alvaro piorno <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to it.
I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.

This is the "new " ffiCall :
    self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))

And this is a "seter" ffiCall:

    self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).

I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a problem with what i have in Pharo.

A general approach might be to write your own C wrapper around Chipmunk library functions which 
just does a debug printout of parameters before calling the wrapped function.
Use these for both from Pharo and your "direct" trial, and see how they compare.

cheers -ben


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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

Stephane Ducasse-3
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Esteban and you remember you promise me to work on the documentation :)

On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:

> yes, he is using that.
> but he is porting it yo UFFI (it was NB) and to 64bits and to Chipmunk 7.0 (it was 6.1)
>
> So… in one of those places, is failing :(
>
> Esteban
>
>> On 17 Sep 2017, at 13:32, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Look at http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~estebanlm/Storm
>>
>> A small game engine.
>>
>> For being able to use this you will need:
>>
>> NB capable VM.
>> Athens.
>> Chipmunk library. You can download it at Chipmunk
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Stephane Ducasse
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Jean-Baptiste Arnaud extended the Chipmunk binding that esteban did a
>>> while ago and Damien Pollet did a tutorial
>>> at ESUG Annecy to show how to use FFI (nativeboost) to call chipmunk
>>> so it should be around.
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 2:09 PM, alvaro piorno
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Hi Stephan,
>>>> Thanks for your answer, i found the booklet, but it was a draft, so it was
>>>> incomplete. An example of FFIOpaqueObject would be healpful, i think.
>>>> Esteban already talked to me, and is helping me with this.
>>>> What do you mean with "Chipmunk existing bindings" ?.
>>>>
>>>> 2017-09-16 4:42 GMT-03:00 Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi alvaro
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the question. If you have any suggestion for the booklet on
>>>>> UFFI let us know.
>>>>> I will let esteban anwser because I do not know.
>>>>> BTW did you check the chipmunk existing bindings?
>>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 3:42 PM, alvaro piorno
>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
>>>>>> I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the "new " ffiCall :
>>>>>>    self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this is a "seter" ffiCall:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
>>>>>> I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>> with what i have in Pharo.
>>>>>> Any suggestion?
>>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alvaro Piorno
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
>

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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by alvaro piorno
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 12:01 AM, alvaro piorno
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Pierce: I already see the repo, i kwnow now the difference and is not the
> problem i have now. I made the suggestion for book draft i found, because
> theres is no example on it. Thanks for answer.
>
> Stephan : Yes, as Esteban said i´m using that, I´m extending (or trying)
> Esteban´s project. And i´m having the problem that esteban metioned. Thanks
> for answer.
>
> Ben: I have in C the same example as in Pharo using the physics of Chipmunk,
> and in C is working fine, there is a problem in the call to the function
> from Pharo in 64 bits. Thanks for answer.

Replicating the same example in C was not my point.
You'd said you'd already done that ;)

I meant compile your own shared C library containing...
    cpBody* myBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
    {
        printf( "....\n", m, i );
        cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i);
    }

and from Smalltalk use...
    self ffiCall: #(cpBody* myBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))

also changing your existing C example to also use  myBodyNew()
to confirm it works as expected.

cheers -ben

>
>
> 2017-09-17 12:11 GMT-03:00 Ben Coman <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:42 PM, alvaro piorno <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
>>> I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to
>>> it.
>>> I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.
>>>
>>> This is the "new " ffiCall :
>>>     self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>>>
>>> And this is a "seter" ffiCall:
>>>
>>>     self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).
>>>
>>> I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
>>> I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a
>>> problem with what i have in Pharo.
>>
>>
>> A general approach might be to write your own C wrapper around Chipmunk
>> library functions which
>> just does a debug printout of parameters before calling the wrapped
>> function.
>> Use these for both from Pharo and your "direct" trial, and see how they
>> compare.
>>
>> cheers -ben
>>
>

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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

alvaro piorno
Thanks Ben, i `ll try that.
 Should "printf" print something on console while calling function form pharo or is only to check from C example?


2017-09-17 14:12 GMT-03:00 Ben Coman <[hidden email]>:
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 12:01 AM, alvaro piorno
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Pierce: I already see the repo, i kwnow now the difference and is not the
> problem i have now. I made the suggestion for book draft i found, because
> theres is no example on it. Thanks for answer.
>
> Stephan : Yes, as Esteban said i´m using that, I´m extending (or trying)
> Esteban´s project. And i´m having the problem that esteban metioned. Thanks
> for answer.
>
> Ben: I have in C the same example as in Pharo using the physics of Chipmunk,
> and in C is working fine, there is a problem in the call to the function
> from Pharo in 64 bits. Thanks for answer.

Replicating the same example in C was not my point.
You'd said you'd already done that ;)

I meant compile your own shared C library containing...
    cpBody* myBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
    {
        printf( "....\n", m, i );
        cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i);
    }

and from Smalltalk use...
    self ffiCall: #(cpBody* myBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))

also changing your existing C example to also use  myBodyNew()
to confirm it works as expected.

cheers -ben

>
>
> 2017-09-17 12:11 GMT-03:00 Ben Coman <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:42 PM, alvaro piorno <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
>>> I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position to
>>> it.
>>> I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.
>>>
>>> This is the "new " ffiCall :
>>>     self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>>>
>>> And this is a "seter" ffiCall:
>>>
>>>     self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).
>>>
>>> I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
>>> I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a
>>> problem with what i have in Pharo.
>>
>>
>> A general approach might be to write your own C wrapper around Chipmunk
>> library functions which
>> just does a debug printout of parameters before calling the wrapped
>> function.
>> Use these for both from Pharo and your "direct" trial, and see how they
>> compare.
>>
>> cheers -ben
>>
>


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Re: UFFI problem / doubt

Ben Coman
Calling the wrapper function from Pharo the printf  "should"  output
to the console (at least on Unix platforms).
Shout if it doesn't.
cheers -ben

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 9:41 PM, alvaro piorno
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Ben, i `ll try that.
>  Should "printf" print something on console while calling function form
> pharo or is only to check from C example?
>
>
> 2017-09-17 14:12 GMT-03:00 Ben Coman <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 12:01 AM, alvaro piorno
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Pierce: I already see the repo, i kwnow now the difference and is not
>> > the
>> > problem i have now. I made the suggestion for book draft i found,
>> > because
>> > theres is no example on it. Thanks for answer.
>> >
>> > Stephan : Yes, as Esteban said i´m using that, I´m extending (or trying)
>> > Esteban´s project. And i´m having the problem that esteban metioned.
>> > Thanks
>> > for answer.
>> >
>> > Ben: I have in C the same example as in Pharo using the physics of
>> > Chipmunk,
>> > and in C is working fine, there is a problem in the call to the function
>> > from Pharo in 64 bits. Thanks for answer.
>>
>> Replicating the same example in C was not my point.
>> You'd said you'd already done that ;)
>>
>> I meant compile your own shared C library containing...
>>     cpBody* myBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>>     {
>>         printf( "....\n", m, i );
>>         cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i);
>>     }
>>
>> and from Smalltalk use...
>>     self ffiCall: #(cpBody* myBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>>
>> also changing your existing C example to also use  myBodyNew()
>> to confirm it works as expected.
>>
>> cheers -ben
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > 2017-09-17 12:11 GMT-03:00 Ben Coman <[hidden email]>:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:42 PM, alvaro piorno
>> >> <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi everybody, i´m using UnifiedFFI with Chipmunk2D library .
>> >>> I want to get a pointer to a C Structure (cpBody) and set a position
>> >>> to
>> >>> it.
>> >>> I have a subClass of FFIOpaqueObject to handle pointer.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is the "new " ffiCall :
>> >>>     self ffiCall: #(cpBody* cpBodyNew(cpFloat m, cpFloat i))
>> >>>
>> >>> And this is a "seter" ffiCall:
>> >>>
>> >>>     self ffiCall: #( void cpBodySetPosition( self, cpVect vector ) ).
>> >>>
>> >>> I`m not getting any "error" but the position is not updating.
>> >>> I tried the same using Chipmunk directly and it works, so there is a
>> >>> problem with what i have in Pharo.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> A general approach might be to write your own C wrapper around Chipmunk
>> >> library functions which
>> >> just does a debug printout of parameters before calling the wrapped
>> >> function.
>> >> Use these for both from Pharo and your "direct" trial, and see how they
>> >> compare.
>> >>
>> >> cheers -ben
>> >>
>> >
>>
>