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Underscore assignments

Torsten Bergmann
+1


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Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

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Re: Underscore assignments

Johan Brichau
yes please!

On 04 Nov 2009, at 09:49, Torsten Bergmann wrote:

> +1
>
>
> --
> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

----------------------------
Johan Brichau
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Re: Underscore assignments

Michael Roberts-2
In reply to this post by Torsten Bergmann
Hi torsten , just curious what mailer you use? it seems that all your
emails break the threading. This is very apparent when reading the
list via gmail. I wasn't sure if you knew. Just thought I would
mention it.
Mike

On Wednesday, November 4, 2009, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1
>
>
> --
> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>

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Re: Underscore assignments

Lukas Renggli
> Hi torsten , just curious what mailer you use? it seems that all your
> emails break the threading. This is very apparent when reading the
> list via gmail. I wasn't sure if you knew. Just thought I would
> mention it.

It annoys me too :-)

Lukas


> Mike
>
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2009, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> +1
>>
>>
>> --
>> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>



--
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Re: Underscore assignments

Lukas Renggli
I committed SLICE-DoNotCompileUnderscoreAssignments-LukasRenggli.1.mcz.

The only change is that the compiler refuses to compile underscore
assignments. It seems to be problematic to throw a deprecated message,
as this can happen in all kind of weird situations. So now you just
get a syntax error, or in interactive mode (when loading with
Monticello) a popup that gives you the possibility to fix the code. I
suggest to integrate that into Pharo 1.0. Loading old code is a bit
cumbersome, but I guess most people already fixed their code-base.

Next we can add underscore characters to the compiler in Pharo 1.1.
Supporting underscore identifiers and assignments at the same time
seems to be tricky, as there are all kinds of new ambiguities:
a_1negated could be an assignment of 1 negated to a, or an access of
the variable a_1negated :-/

Lukas

2009/11/4 Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>:

>> Hi torsten , just curious what mailer you use? it seems that all your
>> emails break the threading. This is very apparent when reading the
>> list via gmail. I wasn't sure if you knew. Just thought I would
>> mention it.
>
> It annoys me too :-)
>
> Lukas
>
>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2009, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> +1
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>



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http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: Underscore assignments

Stéphane Ducasse

On Nov 4, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> I committed SLICE-DoNotCompileUnderscoreAssignments-LukasRenggli.
> 1.mcz.
>
> The only change is that the compiler refuses to compile underscore
> assignments. It seems to be problematic to throw a deprecated message,
> as this can happen in all kind of weird situations. So now you just
> get a syntax error, or in interactive mode (when loading with
> Monticello) a popup that gives you the possibility to fix the code. I
> suggest to integrate that into Pharo 1.0. Loading old code is a bit
> cumbersome, but I guess most people already fixed their code-base.

really in 1.0
we should pay attention because we want as few as possible of fixes in  
1.0 :)

> Next we can add underscore characters to the compiler in Pharo 1.1.
> Supporting underscore identifiers and assignments at the same time
> seems to be tricky, as there are all kinds of new ambiguities:
> a_1negated could be an assignment of 1 negated to a, or an access of
> the variable a_1negated :-/

so for selector first :)

>
> Lukas
>
> 2009/11/4 Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>:
>>> Hi torsten , just curious what mailer you use? it seems that all  
>>> your
>>> emails break the threading. This is very apparent when reading the
>>> list via gmail. I wasn't sure if you knew. Just thought I would
>>> mention it.
>>
>> It annoys me too :-)
>>
>> Lukas
>>
>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2009, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]>  
>>> wrote:
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>>>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lukas Renggli
>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: Underscore assignments

Lukas Renggli
>> The only change is that the compiler refuses to compile underscore
>> assignments. It seems to be problematic to throw a deprecated message,
>> as this can happen in all kind of weird situations. So now you just
>> get a syntax error, or in interactive mode (when loading with
>> Monticello) a popup that gives you the possibility to fix the code. I
>> suggest to integrate that into Pharo 1.0. Loading old code is a bit
>> cumbersome, but I guess most people already fixed their code-base.
>
> really in 1.0
> we should pay attention because we want as few as possible of fixes in
> 1.0 :)

It is not a fix. It just throws an error when somebody tries to
compile code with underscore assignments.

I thought that this would give people some time to think about their
code, but probably it is not that useful after all and we better just
fix the real thing.

Lukas

--
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http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: Underscore assignments

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1410


On Nov 4, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> I committed SLICE-DoNotCompileUnderscoreAssignments-LukasRenggli.
> 1.mcz.
>
> The only change is that the compiler refuses to compile underscore
> assignments. It seems to be problematic to throw a deprecated message,
> as this can happen in all kind of weird situations. So now you just
> get a syntax error, or in interactive mode (when loading with
> Monticello) a popup that gives you the possibility to fix the code. I
> suggest to integrate that into Pharo 1.0. Loading old code is a bit
> cumbersome, but I guess most people already fixed their code-base.
>
> Next we can add underscore characters to the compiler in Pharo 1.1.
> Supporting underscore identifiers and assignments at the same time
> seems to be tricky, as there are all kinds of new ambiguities:
> a_1negated could be an assignment of 1 negated to a, or an access of
> the variable a_1negated :-/
>
> Lukas
>
> 2009/11/4 Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>:
>>> Hi torsten , just curious what mailer you use? it seems that all  
>>> your
>>> emails break the threading. This is very apparent when reading the
>>> list via gmail. I wasn't sure if you knew. Just thought I would
>>> mention it.
>>
>> It annoys me too :-)
>>
>> Lukas
>>
>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2009, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]>  
>>> wrote:
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>>>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lukas Renggli
>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: Underscore assignments

Schwab,Wilhelm K
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
I for one can live w/o underscore assignment :)



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lukas Renggli
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:58 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Underscore assignments

I committed SLICE-DoNotCompileUnderscoreAssignments-LukasRenggli.1.mcz.

The only change is that the compiler refuses to compile underscore assignments. It seems to be problematic to throw a deprecated message, as this can happen in all kind of weird situations. So now you just get a syntax error, or in interactive mode (when loading with
Monticello) a popup that gives you the possibility to fix the code. I suggest to integrate that into Pharo 1.0. Loading old code is a bit cumbersome, but I guess most people already fixed their code-base.

Next we can add underscore characters to the compiler in Pharo 1.1.
Supporting underscore identifiers and assignments at the same time seems to be tricky, as there are all kinds of new ambiguities:
a_1negated could be an assignment of 1 negated to a, or an access of the variable a_1negated :-/

Lukas

2009/11/4 Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>:

>> Hi torsten , just curious what mailer you use? it seems that all your
>> emails break the threading. This is very apparent when reading the
>> list via gmail. I wasn't sure if you knew. Just thought I would
>> mention it.
>
> It annoys me too :-)
>
> Lukas
>
>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2009, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> +1
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
>>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>



--
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http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: Underscore assignments

Martin McClure-2
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Supporting underscore identifiers and assignments at the same time
> seems to be tricky, as there are all kinds of new ambiguities:
> a_1negated could be an assignment of 1 negated to a, or an access of
> the variable a_1negated :-/

GemStone has supported both for the past couple of years. The rule we
use is that _ must have whitespace on both sides to be considered
assignment, otherwise it's part of a selector or variable name.

This allowed us to continue using _ in selectors and variables, which
we'd allowed from the very beginning, and made it easier to port Squeak
code to GemStone.

I'm not sure we've run across *any* code in actual use that uses
underscore assignment without surrounding it with whitespace; certainly
most code does put whitespace around assignments.


Regards,

-Martin

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Re: Underscore assignments

Lukas Renggli
I probably better go to bed now. In this case I am blind too. Eliot
already implemented this, we should just "enable the disabling of
underscore assignments" as fast as possible:

    Preferences disable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment

Cheers,
Lukas

2009/11/4 Martin McClure <[hidden email]>:

> Lukas Renggli wrote:
>
>> Supporting underscore identifiers and assignments at the same time
>> seems to be tricky, as there are all kinds of new ambiguities:
>> a_1negated could be an assignment of 1 negated to a, or an access of
>> the variable a_1negated :-/
>
> GemStone has supported both for the past couple of years. The rule we
> use is that _ must have whitespace on both sides to be considered
> assignment, otherwise it's part of a selector or variable name.
>
> This allowed us to continue using _ in selectors and variables, which
> we'd allowed from the very beginning, and made it easier to port Squeak
> code to GemStone.
>
> I'm not sure we've run across *any* code in actual use that uses
> underscore assignment without surrounding it with whitespace; certainly
> most code does put whitespace around assignments.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> -Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>



--
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http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: Underscore assignments

Adrian Lienhard

On Nov 4, 2009, at 21:09 , Lukas Renggli wrote:

> I probably better go to bed now. In this case I am blind too. Eliot
> already implemented this, we should just "enable the disabling of
> underscore assignments" as fast as possible:
>
>    Preferences disable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment

I did that, but I can still compile assignments with underscores.

Do I miss anything?

Cheers,
Adrian

>
> Cheers,
> Lukas
>
> 2009/11/4 Martin McClure <[hidden email]>:
>> Lukas Renggli wrote:
>>
>>> Supporting underscore identifiers and assignments at the same time
>>> seems to be tricky, as there are all kinds of new ambiguities:
>>> a_1negated could be an assignment of 1 negated to a, or an access of
>>> the variable a_1negated :-/
>>
>> GemStone has supported both for the past couple of years. The rule we
>> use is that _ must have whitespace on both sides to be considered
>> assignment, otherwise it's part of a selector or variable name.
>>
>> This allowed us to continue using _ in selectors and variables, which
>> we'd allowed from the very beginning, and made it easier to port  
>> Squeak
>> code to GemStone.
>>
>> I'm not sure we've run across *any* code in actual use that uses
>> underscore assignment without surrounding it with whitespace;  
>> certainly
>> most code does put whitespace around assignments.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Martin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: Underscore assignments

Lukas Renggli
>>    Preferences disable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment
>
> I did that, but I can still compile assignments with underscores.
>
> Do I miss anything?

No, it is me that is totally confused tonight.

You also need to evaluate the following expression:

  (Scanner classPool at: #TypeTable) at: $_ asciiValue put: #xLetter

Afterwards you can create classes, inst-vars, methods, etc. that have
an underscore inside.

Lukas

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Re: Underscore assignments

Stéphane Ducasse
don;t worry lukas some days I go to bed at 8h30 because I'm dead  
(yesterday for example).

;-D

Stef
On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:35 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

>>>    Preferences disable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment
>>
>> I did that, but I can still compile assignments with underscores.
>>
>> Do I miss anything?
>
> No, it is me that is totally confused tonight.
>
> You also need to evaluate the following expression:
>
>  (Scanner classPool at: #TypeTable) at: $_ asciiValue put: #xLetter
>
> Afterwards you can create classes, inst-vars, methods, etc. that have
> an underscore inside.
>
> Lukas
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: Underscore assignments

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by Lukas Renggli
so does it make sense that I integrate your changes?

Stef

On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:35 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

>>>    Preferences disable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment
>>
>> I did that, but I can still compile assignments with underscores.
>>
>> Do I miss anything?
>
> No, it is me that is totally confused tonight.
>
> You also need to evaluate the following expression:
>
>  (Scanner classPool at: #TypeTable) at: $_ asciiValue put: #xLetter
>
> Afterwards you can create classes, inst-vars, methods, etc. that have
> an underscore inside.
>
> Lukas
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project


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Re: Underscore assignments

Lukas Renggli
Please wait, I can prepare a complete patch for Pharo 1.1.

I suggest that we just set the following preference in Pharo 1.0:

     Preferences disable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment

Lukas



2009/11/5 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:

> so does it make sense that I integrate your changes?
>
> Stef
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:35 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
>
>>>>    Preferences disable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment
>>>
>>> I did that, but I can still compile assignments with underscores.
>>>
>>> Do I miss anything?
>>
>> No, it is me that is totally confused tonight.
>>
>> You also need to evaluate the following expression:
>>
>>  (Scanner classPool at: #TypeTable) at: $_ asciiValue put: #xLetter
>>
>> Afterwards you can create classes, inst-vars, methods, etc. that have
>> an underscore inside.
>>
>> Lukas
>>
>> --
>> Lukas Renggli
>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>



--
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http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: Underscore assignments

Stéphane Ducasse
ok when you are reayd update the bugtracker
so that I can follow from chili.

Stef

On Nov 5, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

> Please wait, I can prepare a complete patch for Pharo 1.1.
>
> I suggest that we just set the following preference in Pharo 1.0:
>
>     Preferences disable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment
>
> Lukas
>
>
>
> 2009/11/5 Stéphane Ducasse <[hidden email]>:
>> so does it make sense that I integrate your changes?
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:35 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:
>>
>>>>>    Preferences disable: #allowUnderscoreAssignment
>>>>
>>>> I did that, but I can still compile assignments with underscores.
>>>>
>>>> Do I miss anything?
>>>
>>> No, it is me that is totally confused tonight.
>>>
>>> You also need to evaluate the following expression:
>>>
>>>  (Scanner classPool at: #TypeTable) at: $_ asciiValue put: #xLetter
>>>
>>> Afterwards you can create classes, inst-vars, methods, etc. that  
>>> have
>>> an underscore inside.
>>>
>>> Lukas
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lukas Renggli
>>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pharo-project mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Lukas Renggli
> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
>
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