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Update: Progress ...

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Matt Selway

Re: Update: Progress ...

I am not 100% sure where this came from Angelo?

Looking at the history of this thread the only mention of Jython is from Dimitris Chloupis who was basically critiquing the idea of implementing languages in the JVM as something that is not strictly necessary as there are other means of integrating across languages. Jython was used as an example in a discussion about why James was wanting to implement Smalltalk on the JVM. The point of having a scripting language inside a Java application is one use case that potentially counters his argument but not all of it.

Considering that Jython does not appear to have a release newer than 2.7 (back in May 2015), according to jython.org, and that it does not support Python 3 I would say that Dimitris' argument about alternative implementations having a smaller user base than the core implementation seems warranted. (Also supported by the fact we do not have huge hordes of interested parties offering support to get Redline into a production state ;-) )

Also, as far as I am aware, Jython cannot access everything from the Python ecosystem as there are numerous incompatibilities (as there typically are in all alternative implementations).

Maybe I am missing some context that prompted you to reply to such an old thread Angelo?

Personally I think people should use whichever language and implementation meets their requirements. To me Smalltalk on the JVM would meet my requirements. :-)

Now if only I had the time to keep contributing to Redline... :-|

On Monday, 18 March 2019 13:20:22 UTC+10:30, Angelo Schneider wrote:

Regarding your comments about Jython: people use it to script Java Applications, may it be desktop applications or server applications on a backend. I think you completely missed its purpose: a Scripting language that completely integrated into the Java ecosystem and can access everything from the Python ecosystem.

And there are millions of people using it. I myself used it during the last 10 years in plenty of projects, many of the have an install base going into the thousands or have thousands of users.

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Angelo Schneider-2

Re: Update: Progress ...

Hi,

if understood him correctly, his argument was: no one uses or needs Jython, because instead of programming in Jython on the JVM, you are better of using Python or CPython.

The use case for Jython however is scripting Java applications and not „I want to have a Python on the JVM“. As I pointed out I know dozens of software projects which are in Java and use Jython as scripting language, most often via JSR 223. (Scripting language in the sense of configuration, error checking, automation of user interaction, automated UI tests etc.)

Jython can use all of Python unless it is a C-extension or written in CPython. Java classes can inherit from Jython and Jython classes can inherit from Java classes. It is not 100% transparent as you have to glue them together by instantiating a Jython interpreter.

Smalltalk on the JVM would be a killer if it had an image. There once was one - well the company still exists, but their Smalltalk is no longer image based Exelent or something was the name.

Hope that helped :D

Matt Selway

Re: Update: Progress ...

Yeah, fair enough. I've used Jython myself in exactly that way. The fact it is no longer maintained though kind of speaks for itself and I wonder if its use in that context will start to drop off (if it hasn't already) as there are plenty of other JSR 223 compatible scripting languages. Some may even integrate better than Jython, e.g., Groovy.

I had a look but couldn't find the company you mentioned (Exelent?). But I did come across some work that was done in 2014 where some people implemented a JVM in Smalltalk/X

Wrong way around for what I want but I found it interesting :-)

Cheers,

Matt

On Monday, 18 March 2019 20:16:12 UTC+10:30, Angelo Schneider wrote:

Hi,

if understood him correctly, his argument was: no one uses or needs Jython, because instead of programming in Jython on the JVM, you are better of using Python or CPython.
The use case for Jython however is scripting Java applications and not „I want to have a Python on the JVM“. As I pointed out I know dozens of software projects which are in Java and use Jython as scripting language, most often via JSR 223. (Scripting language in the sense of configuration, error checking, automation of user interaction, automated UI tests etc.)

Jython can use all of Python unless it is a C-extension or written in CPython. Java classes can inherit from Jython and Jython classes can inherit from Java classes. It is not 100% transparent as you have to glue them together by instantiating a Jython interpreter.

Smalltalk on the JVM would be a killer if it had an image. There once was one - well the company still exists, but their Smalltalk is no longer image based Exelent or something was the name.

Hope that helped :D

picoVerse

Re: Update: Progress ...

In reply to this post by Apokalypse Software Corp

You seem to be describing GNU Smalltalk

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