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UpdatedPharoByExample

Ben Coman

I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see
there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been
touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not
exist.  What are the current status of these?

[1] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
[2] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample


cheers -ben
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Re: UpdatedPharoByExample

stephane ducasse
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

>
> I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?

I started to check if I can convert pbe into pier but I stopped because first we need to go and clean the pbe document

I have a log here of what I should have a look
        https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lVOTw2d5Bqv_49XPZ9MwUF6zDbsLWf8l7ev2NAgHhhg/edit?usp=drive_web

I pay attention to do it in the frnech and english version in parallel.
Then once this is done we could migrate to pier.

Stef
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:


I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?

[1] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
[2] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample


cheers -ben
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Re: UpdatedPharoByExample

Marcus Denker-4
In reply to this post by Ben Coman
Hello,

We have already a small group of people that you are welcome to join…
        -> Jordi
        -> Yuri
        -> Me

Now sadly I am the bottleneck currently, and sadly this will not change soon so we need to find a way to organise this so I
am not the bottleneck.

        Marcus



On 28 Nov 2013, at 17:35, [hidden email] wrote:

>
> I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?
>
> [1] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
> [2] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample
>
>
> cheers -ben
> _______________________________________________
> Sbe-discussion mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/sbe-discussion


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Re: UpdatedPharoByExample

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by stephane ducasse
I may be missing something, but I don't believe the move to Pier necessarily requires those updates to be done in the Tex version first.  You can just search for the required text in Pier format.  The PDF would still be available to reference for original context.  My understanding is that the Tex source doesn't have page numbers, so this process with Pier would be no different from Tex.  The sooner the move to a CI build of Pier, the lower the barrier of entry is for helpers.

One thing I am concerned about are the current PharoByExample branches.  I was thinking of just merging all of them without much upfront review - doing this after the conversion to Pier.

I am curious about the process to translate the English version to other languages versions, and how they keep in sync.  Rather than manually maintaining a list of things to keep in sync, could you record the last-synched-English-version, then when you do a pass at synching a language you could diff that to the current-English-version.  Getting a bit exotic, perhaps with the book being Smalltalk-based-Pier, if paragraphs were somehow linked between languages, then updates to the English version would show up inline with the language-specific-CI-build.  This might require a two-step CI build - one 'working' version and one 'synched' version.

cheers -ben

stephane ducasse wrote:
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

  
I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?
    

I started to check if I can convert pbe into pier but I stopped because first we need to go and clean the pbe document 

I have a log here of what I should have a look
	https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lVOTw2d5Bqv_49XPZ9MwUF6zDbsLWf8l7ev2NAgHhhg/edit?usp=drive_web

I pay attention to do it in the frnech and english version in parallel.
Then once this is done we could migrate to pier.

Stef
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:


I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?

[1] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
[2] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample


cheers -ben
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Re: UpdatedPharoByExample

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Marcus Denker-4
Marcus Denker wrote:
Hello,

We have already a small group of people that you are welcome to join…
	-> Jordi
	-> Yuri
	-> Me

  

Yes. Please join me.

Now sadly I am the bottleneck currently, and sadly this will not change soon so we need to find a way to organise this so I
am not the bottleneck.

	Marcus
  

What are the details of this bottleneck?  What needs to be done?

cheers -ben



On 28 Nov 2013, at 17:35, [hidden email] wrote:

  
I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?

[1] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
[2] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample


cheers -ben
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Re: UpdatedPharoByExample

stephane ducasse
In reply to this post by Ben Coman
My point is 
- lt us makes the simple and easy things first. = address the feedback we got
- starting a large effort is more likely to fail.

I may be missing something, but I don't believe the move to Pier necessarily requires those updates to be done in the Tex version first.  You can just search for the required text in Pier format.  The PDF would still be available to reference for original context.  My understanding is that the Tex source doesn't have page numbers, so this process with Pier would be no different from Tex. 
I do not understand the point with page number.

The sooner the move to a CI build of Pier, the lower the barrier of entry is for helpers.

I do not think so. Latex is not that complex. 


One thing I am concerned about are the current PharoByExample branches. 

which ones? there is only one version of PharoByExample

I was thinking of just merging all of them without much upfront review - doing this after the conversion to Pier.

I do not understand what merging french english would mean (if branches = languages). 
Else I do not understand what are the branches.


I am curious about the process to translate the English version to other languages versions, and how they keep in sync. 
so far it was totally ad-hoc and this is why we should minimize the changes. 

Rather than manually maintaining a list of things to keep in sync, could you record the last-synched-English-version, then when you do a pass at synching a language you could diff that to the current-English-version.
I was thinking that we could analysis the diff in english and port that to each language.


  Getting a bit exotic, perhaps with the book being Smalltalk-based-Pier, if paragraphs were somehow linked between languages, then updates to the English version would show up inline with the language-specific-CI-build.  This might require a two-step CI build - one 'working' version and one 'synched' version.

cheers -ben

stephane ducasse wrote:
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

  
I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?
    

I started to check if I can convert pbe into pier but I stopped because first we need to go and clean the pbe document 

I have a log here of what I should have a look
	https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lVOTw2d5Bqv_49XPZ9MwUF6zDbsLWf8l7ev2NAgHhhg/edit?usp=drive_web

I pay attention to do it in the frnech and english version in parallel.
Then once this is done we could migrate to pier.

Stef
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:


I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?

[1] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
[2] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample


cheers -ben
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Re: UpdatedPharoByExample

Ben Coman
stephane ducasse wrote:
My point is 
	- lt us makes the simple and easy things first. = address the feedback we got
	- starting a large effort is more likely to fail
I may be missing something, but I don't believe the move to Pier necessarily requires those updates to be done in the Tex version first.  You can just search for the required text in Pier format.  The PDF would still be available to reference for original context.  My understanding is that the Tex source doesn't have page numbers, so this process with Pier would be no different from Tex. 
    
I do not understand the point with page number.
  

Converting to Pier likely reformats a bit such that feedback reported for particular page numbers might not align correctly with the Pier produced document.  My point was that should not be a problem since you can get context from the Tex-produced-PDF.

  
The sooner the move to a CI build of Pier, the lower the barrier of entry is for helpers.
    

I do not think so. Latex is not that complex. 
  

Latex is not so complex, but setting up the build environment (at least on Windows) is more work than just waiting for the CI build to pick up the changes - or building Pier locally.
btw, Where can I find some info on that?

  
One thing I am concerned about are the current PharoByExample branches. 
    

which ones? there is only one version of PharoByExample
  

See attached image, branches by seven people listed on the left side need to be merged.  Perhaps I should have said "forks".  Some will be redundant and need to be redone for Pharo 3, but I feel we should just get them in so nothing is lost and do the main review in Pier.

  
I was thinking of just merging all of them without much upfront review - doing this after the conversion to Pier. 
    

I do not understand what merging french english would mean (if branches = languages). 
Else I do not understand what are the branches.
  

Not merging languages.  I meant forks within the English version. 

I am curious about the process to translate the English version to other languages versions, and how they keep in sync. 
    
so far it was totally ad-hoc and this is why we should minimize the changes. 

  
Rather than manually maintaining a list of things to keep in sync, could you record the last-synched-English-version, then when you do a pass at synching a language you could diff that to the current-English-version.
    
I was thinking that we could analysis the diff in english and port that to each language.
  

I am having a quick look into Transifex [1]. Seems to be a service for managing translations with fine grained synchronization between languages plus CI integration [2] and free for open source projects.  Would there be any interest in using something like this?  Though I'm not sure yet if its entirely suited for books, or just for strings used with software. 

[1] https://www.transifex.com/features/translation-management/
[2] https://www.transifex.com/features/continuous-localization/


  
  Getting a bit exotic, perhaps with the book being Smalltalk-based-Pier, if paragraphs were somehow linked between languages, then updates to the English version would show up inline with the language-specific-CI-build.  This might require a two-step CI build - one 'working' version and one 'synched' version.

cheers -ben

stephane ducasse wrote:
    
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

  
      
I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?
    
        
I started to check if I can convert pbe into pier but I stopped because first we need to go and clean the pbe document 

I have a log here of what I should have a look
	https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lVOTw2d5Bqv_49XPZ9MwUF6zDbsLWf8l7ev2NAgHhhg/edit?usp=drive_web

I pay attention to do it in the frnech and english version in parallel.
Then once this is done we could migrate to pier.

Stef
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:


I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?

[1] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
[2] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample


cheers -ben


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Re: UpdatedPharoByExample

Ben Coman

Now that Pillar has been extracted from Pier, I guess it is more correct to say PBE will be done in Pillar rather than Pier.   Is Pillar able to contain executable components? So that output from examples can be generated?  Also it would be useful to generate some of the images (eg World menu, Settings Dialog) so that future changes in look-and-feel are picked up automatically.  Is that currently possible?  If not, I'd be happy to have a go at filling that gap. 

cheers -ben


[hidden email] wrote:
stephane ducasse wrote:
My point is 
	- lt us makes the simple and easy things first. = address the feedback we got
	- starting a large effort is more likely to fail
I may be missing something, but I don't believe the move to Pier necessarily requires those updates to be done in the Tex version first.  You can just search for the required text in Pier format.  The PDF would still be available to reference for original context.  My understanding is that the Tex source doesn't have page numbers, so this process with Pier would be no different from Tex. 
    
I do not understand the point with page number.
  

Converting to Pier likely reformats a bit such that feedback reported for particular page numbers might not align correctly with the Pier produced document.  My point was that should not be a problem since you can get context from the Tex-produced-PDF.

  
The sooner the move to a CI build of Pier, the lower the barrier of entry is for helpers.
    

I do not think so. Latex is not that complex. 
  

Latex is not so complex, but setting up the build environment (at least on Windows) is more work than just waiting for the CI build to pick up the changes - or building Pier locally.
btw, Where can I find some info on that?

I have found the PharoForTheEnterprise CI configuration as a starting point.  Any other pointers will be welcome.


  
One thing I am concerned about are the current PharoByExample branches. 
    

which ones? there is only one version of PharoByExample
  

See attached image, branches by seven people listed on the left side need to be merged.  Perhaps I should have said "forks".  Some will be redundant and need to be redone for Pharo 3, but I feel we should just get them in so nothing is lost and do the main review in Pier.

  
I was thinking of just merging all of them without much upfront review - doing this after the conversion to Pier. 
    

I do not understand what merging french english would mean (if branches = languages). 
Else I do not understand what are the branches.
  

Not merging languages.  I meant forks within the English version. 

I am curious about the process to translate the English version to other languages versions, and how they keep in sync. 
    
so far it was totally ad-hoc and this is why we should minimize the changes. 

  
Rather than manually maintaining a list of things to keep in sync, could you record the last-synched-English-version, then when you do a pass at synching a language you could diff that to the current-English-version.
    
I was thinking that we could analysis the diff in english and port that to each language.
  

I am having a quick look into Transifex [1]. Seems to be a service for managing translations with fine grained synchronization between languages plus CI integration [2] and free for open source projects.  Would there be any interest in using something like this?  Though I'm not sure yet if its entirely suited for books, or just for strings used with software. 

[1] https://www.transifex.com/features/translation-management/
[2] https://www.transifex.com/features/continuous-localization/

  
  Getting a bit exotic, perhaps with the book being Smalltalk-based-Pier, if paragraphs were somehow linked between languages, then updates to the English version would show up inline with the language-specific-CI-build.  This might require a two-step CI build - one 'working' version and one 'synched' version.

cheers -ben

stephane ducasse wrote:
    
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

  
      
I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?
    
        
I started to check if I can convert pbe into pier but I stopped because first we need to go and clean the pbe document 

I have a log here of what I should have a look
	https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lVOTw2d5Bqv_49XPZ9MwUF6zDbsLWf8l7ev2NAgHhhg/edit?usp=drive_web

I pay attention to do it in the frnech and english version in parallel.
Then once this is done we could migrate to pier.

Stef
On Nov 28, 2013, at 5:35 PM, [hidden email] wrote:


I was thinking of having another go at updating Pharo By Example.  I see there is a new repository UpdatedPharoByExample [1], bu tit hasn't been touched for two months.  Also its referenced CI job [2] seem to not exist.  What are the current status of these?

[1] https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoByExample
[2] https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/UpdatedPharoByExample


cheers -ben





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Re: UpdatedPharoByExample

Marcus Denker-4
In reply to this post by Ben Coman

On 29 Nov 2013, at 19:41, [hidden email] wrote:

> Marcus Denker wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> We have already a small group of people that you are welcome to join…
>> -> Jordi
>> -> Yuri
>> -> Me
>>
>>  
>
> Yes. Please join me.
>
>> Now sadly I am the bottleneck currently, and sadly this will not change soon so we need to find a way to organise this so I
>> am not the bottleneck.
>>
>> Marcus
>>  
>
> What are the details of this bottleneck?  What needs to be done?
>

-> read all the mails
-> think about everything
-> decide
-> act

Sometimes there is so much going on that I just can’t do the thinking part… my solution is to then be involved in less
things so that I can think about those. Thinking about too many things at once does not work for me.

        Marcus


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