Use of examples from Hasso-Plattner-Institut's tutorial
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Use of examples from Hasso-Plattner-Institut's tutorial
 
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In a previous mail Stephane Ducasse wanted to know the license of the
code in the tutorial from Hasso-Plattner-Institut. Nobody replied with an official position. In the About us section of the tutorial says that Michael Perscheid is the contact for feedback. Instead of writing a private mail to him, I chose to send it to the list so it can be used as a public position regarding the use of the examples, techniques and information contained in the tutorial. I refer only to the code and not to the text. As I understand it, if you buy a book about data structures in C, for example, you can use the techniques in it because it is meant to learn the language or the techniques. The same logic applies to the code and techniques you read in a forum on the web. The code in the forum's threads are for learning and is common to use the code verbatim or with little modifications in your own project. You get my point. Can you, please, clarify this point? Regards, Miguel Cobá _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Use of examples from Hasso-Plattner-Institut's tutorial
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Hi Miguel,
On Nov 15, 2007 6:23 AM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez <[hidden email]> wrote: > I refer only to the code and not to the text. As I understand it, if you > buy a book about data structures in C, for example, you can use the > techniques in it because it is meant to learn the language or the > techniques. The same logic applies to the code and techniques you read > in a forum on the web. The code in the forum's threads are for learning > and is common to use the code verbatim or with little modifications in > your own project. You get my point. > > Can you, please, clarify this point? here is the position you are asking for. Of course you can use idioms from the ToDo application to demonstrate how certain things work. We'd be happy if you could give appropriate credit and point to the tutorial for reference. As long as you don't reuse entire parts of the application, there is no problem. If you do, you will require express permission from us to do so. As for the tutorial *text*, any reuse of existing material is subject to express permission from the authors. This is how things are for now. We are sorting out licensing details but have not yet come to a conclusion. I hope this clarifies things. Best, Michael _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Use of examples from Hasso-Plattner-Institut's tutorial
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> Of course you can use idioms from the ToDo application to demonstrate
> how certain things work. We'd be happy if you could give appropriate > credit and point to the tutorial for reference. As long as you don't > reuse entire parts of the application, there is no problem. If you do, > you will require express permission from us to do so. The problem is that the idea of building a ToDo application is not new. In 2006 Avi and Andrew presented such an application as part of their "Advanced Seaside" tutorial at Smalltalk Solutions in Toronto [1]. I used a similar example as part of my "The Art of Seaside" and "Web 2.0" presentations at ESUG 2006 in Prague [2]. Also the article published this year in IEEE Software uses this example [3]. Furthermore, I know of a few other projects where the domain of a ToDo application was or is used. I think it is a perfect example, and I don't have anything against reusing it. However you have to pay attention what license you pick, otherwise you could shoot yourself in the foot as well. Cheers, Lukas [1] http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/files/jarober/nfrStS2006Report.pdf [2] http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/smalltalk/seaside/ [3] http://www.computer.org/portal/cms_docs_software/software/homepage/2007/S507/s5056.pdf -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Use of examples from Hasso-Plattner-Institut's tutorial
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Hi Lukas,
On Nov 15, 2007 2:08 PM, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]> wrote: > The problem is that the idea of building a ToDo application is not new. I wasn't implying that we were the first ones to ever use a ToDo application in the context of Seaside. :-) If, however, code snippets are taken from *our* flavour of implementing a ToDo application in Seaside, we would like to be referenced, at least. That's all. There is too much bad crediting style out there, which we don't want to suffer. BTW our application is completely "clean-room". The people that have developed it were aware of at least the existence of the IEEE Software article, but have not seen any code related to that. Not to worry. We're fond of OSS. But as long as we haven't come to a firm conclusion about how to license *our* code, this is the status quo. Best, Michael _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Use of examples from Hasso-Plattner-Institut's tutorial
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In reply to this post by Michael Haupt-3
On Nov 15, 2007 4:10 AM, Michael Haupt <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Miguel, Ok, that's enough for me. In no way have I the intention of verbatim copy or reuse sections of your application. I just wanted to know that it is ok to use the ideas and techniques. They are very useful because it is very hard to find examples in the net about, for example, how to do a login system or how to integrate with GOODS in a full app. Of course, that is just a way to do it, but an implementation shows you not only a working example about how to solve a particular problem but also it opens your mind about the ways you could do it in a different way without using the original code. It is a sort of bootstrap for your app. That way you can begin your app and concentrate in your app's very own functionality and later, when you feel more confortable or have more experience, you can return to the code and recode it in a different way, in your own style and with better integration to your app. In fact that kind of development style is encouraged by Smalltalk.
Yeah, that is the way almost all understand it. The text is copyrighted.
I hope you can reach an agreement where the text is copyrighted but the code is available to anyone (MIT license or public domain) because:
1. It would reach a wider audience 2. It would be most useful to people learning Seaside 3. It would help to promote Seaside (something we all here want) 4. It should be in the spirit of the academy, with the learning and knowledge diffusion as the foremost objective.
Yes, a lot, thank you.
Regards, Miguel Cobá
_______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
Re: Use of examples from Hasso-Plattner-Institut's tutorial
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Hi Miguel,
On Nov 15, 2007 5:33 PM, Miguel Cobá <[hidden email]> wrote: > Ok, that's enough for me. In no way have I the intention of verbatim copy or > reuse sections of your application. I just wanted to know that it is ok to > use the ideas and techniques. They are very useful because it is very hard > to find examples in the net about, for example, how to do a login system or > how to integrate with GOODS in a full app. ... that was exactly the idea driving the development of such a tutorial. By the way, material on Magma and Magritte is there, only not yet released, and we're working on GemStone material. It's ever growing. :-) > I hope you can reach an agreement where the text is copyrighted but the code > is available to anyone (MIT license or public domain) because: ... As I wrote in a different e-mail in this thread, we are very fond of OSS. Best, Michael _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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