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Using amber without Node.js

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kilon.alios

Using amber without Node.js

hello , i remember that it was possible to use amber old IDE and even open helios.html without nodes.js installed but trying now and neither of the two works. Has something changed with amber ?

I have followed the instructionsin the Geting started page and cloned amber repo . I then double click index.htlm and helios.html. Nothing happen, both pages dont even display an error. I have not installed Node.js.

Its important for me not to have to install node.js because I want my code to run directly from browser.

I was wondering also if it would possible to even save code via indexDB , google drive api etc instead of having to install node.js . From the looks of it , it looks possible.

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Herby Vojčík

Re: Using amber without Node.js

kilon alios wrote:
> I have followed the instructionsin the Geting started page and cloned
> amber repo . I then double click index.htlm and helios.html. Nothing
> happen, both pages dont even display an error. I have not installed
> Node.js.

But Getting started page does not recommend cloning git repo at all,
unless you are going to change amber itself. For creating an in-browser
application, you should have gone by the recommended way (the second one
that says "use bower").

Even the "clone the repo" says "Do not forget to get the dependencies:
see below."[sic], and to get the dependencies, you need node.js
installed (because you need bower, which need npm, and both need node.js).

> Its important for me not to have to install node.js because I want my
> code to run directly from browser.

The part above is completely orthogonal from the fact how will you serve
your page - the integrated server is just convenient for development. It
is not recommended for production use, anyway.

> I was wondering also if it would possible to even save code via
> indexDB , google drive api etc instead of having to install node.js .
> From the looks of it , it looks possible.

Yes, you would probably need to subclass AmdTransport to use something
else then WebDAV to save.

Herby

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kilon.alios

Re: Using amber without Node.js

thank you for your fast reply

My goal was to extend the Amber IDE and make it work offline only from the browser (user being able to save code) without any dependencies that would require installations from the users. It is also important for this to work on mobile devices too (reason why I am interested into html/js).

I forked the repo because I want to contribute back to Amber. I have done in the past for offering support for a Dark Theme for Helios.

I will dive inside Amber code to see how things work and learn more about node.js and bower. I am new to web development , I just would like to experiment , explore and most importantly learn. If I can help Amber improve so much the better.

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:

kilon alios wrote:

I have followed the instructionsin the Geting started page and cloned
amber repo . I then double click index.htlm and helios.html. Nothing
happen, both pages dont even display an error. I have not installed
Node.js.

But Getting started page does not recommend cloning git repo at all, unless you are going to change amber itself. For creating an in-browser application, you should have gone by the recommended way (the second one that says "use bower").

Even the "clone the repo" says "Do not forget to get the dependencies: see below."[sic], and to get the dependencies, you need node.js installed (because you need bower, which need npm, and both need node.js).

Its important for me not to have to install node.js because I want my
code to run directly from browser.

The part above is completely orthogonal from the fact how will you serve your page - the integrated server is just convenient for development. It is not recommended for production use, anyway.

I was wondering also if it would possible to even save code via
indexDB , google drive api etc instead of having to install node.js .
From the looks of it , it looks possible.

Yes, you would probably need to subclass AmdTransport to use something else then WebDAV to save.

Herby

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Herby Vojčík

Re: Using amber without Node.js

kilon alios wrote:
> thank you for your fast reply

yw

> My goal was to extend the Amber IDE and make it work offline only from
> the browser (user being able to save code) without any dependencies

Just a pointer: this is not the IDE who takes care of this, it just call Package >> commit. Saving package is decoupled from any IDEs.

> that would require installations from the users. It is also important

You can make proper installation somewhere with all the dependencies and zip it as is. But amber is now designed as bower package with bower taking care about dependencies.

> for this to work on mobile devices too (reason why I am interested
> into html/js).
>
> I forked the repo because I want to contribute back to Amber. I have
> done in the past for offering support for a Dark Theme for Helios.

Yeah, if you want to change amber, it's the right way to fork. Just it wasn't apparent from the beginning.

> I will dive inside Amber code to see how things work and lear
n more
> about node.js and bower. I am new to web development , I just would

No need to, in fact (that is, you can, you will learn new things, it's all great, just that it is not needed to understand how Amber works and loads/saves packages). Every saving logic is implemented in Amber itself, loading uses require.js, so if you want to learn something to understand package manipulation, require.js will be better than node.js and bower.

> like to experiment , explore and most importantly learn. If I can help
> Amber improve so much the better.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>
> kilon alios wrote:
>
> I have followed the instructionsin the Geting started page and
> cloned
> amber repo . I then double click index.htlm and helios.html.
> Nothing
> happen, both pages dont even display an error. I have not
> installed
> Node.js.
>
>
>

But Getting started page does not recommend cloning git repo at

> all, unless you are going to change amber itself. For creating an
> in-browser application, you should have gone by the recommended
> way (the second one that says "use bower").
>
> Even the "clone the repo" says "Do not forget to get the
> dependencies: see below."[sic], and to get the dependencies, you
> need node.js installed (because you need bower, which need npm,
> and both need node.js).
>
>
> Its important for me not to have to install node.js because I
> want my
> code to run directly from browser.
>
>
> The part above is completely orthogonal from the fact how will you
> serve your page - the integrated server is just convenient for
> development. It is not recommended for production use, anyway.
>
>
> I was wondering also if it would possible to even save code via
> indexDB , google drive api etc instead of having to ins

tall

> node.js .
> From the looks of it , it looks possible.
>
>
> Yes, you would probably need to subclass AmdTransport to use
> something else then WebDAV to save.
>
> Herby
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to [hidden email]
> <mailto:amber-lang%[hidden email]>.
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "amber-lang" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to [hidden email]
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kilon.alios

Re: Using amber without Node.js

"Just a pointer: this is not the IDE who takes care of this, it just call Package >> commit. Saving package is decoupled from any IDEs."

Yes I meant from a user perspective.

"You can make proper installation somewhere with all the dependencies and zip it as is. But amber is now designed as bower package with bower taking care about dependencies."

What I want to do is this, send a user to a webpage. That webpage wont demand, third party installation but rather be a web app ready to use. It will still be the Amber IDE, with the ability to save code. The web app should also work offline. AFAIK amber currently cannot do these things as it is.

"No need to, in fact (that is, you can, you will learn new things, it's all great, just that it is not needed to understand how Amber works and loads/saves packages). Every saving logic is implemented in Amber itself, loading uses require.js, so if you want to learn something to understand package manipulation, require.js will be better than node.js and bower."

See I did not know that, and probably there is tons more to learn. If I can make amber work offline and without any dependency to backends, it would be great. I have taken a look at require.js and as far I saw its a module management system. I did not expect that amber use it for storing js files, i thought all that is done with node.js.

Herby Vojčík

Re: Using amber without Node.js

kilon alios wrote:

>
>
> "Just a pointer: this is not the IDE who takes care of this, it just
> call Package >> commit. Saving package is decoupled from any IDEs."
>
> Yes I meant from a user perspective.
>
> "You can make proper installation somewhere with all the dependencies
> and zip it as is. But amber is now designed as bower package with
> bower taking care about dependencies."
>
> What I want to do is this, send a user to a webpage. That webpage wont
> demand, third party installation but rather be a web app ready to use.

I don't understand this. Amber as a webpage does not demand any
third-part installation even now. It works fine without any third-party
tools, if it has all dependencies present.

Just, to get them, the simplest thing is to install node.js, npm, bower
and run bower install. But after that, Amber does not care. It's just
web, nothing more (sans saving code, it's different thing).

> It will still be the Amber IDE, with the ability to save code
. The web
Amber saves code by issuing PUT HTTP request. So either have server that
accepts it and saves, or use you must use your own kind of transport,
which saves different way.

> app should also work offline. AFAIK amber currently cannot do these

Amber can works offline, if all files are in browser cache already and
are loaded from there (sans saving code, again).

> things as it is.
>
> "No need to, in fact (that is, you can, you will learn new things,
> it's all great, just that it is not needed to understand how Amber
> works and loads/saves packages). Every saving logic is implemented in
> Amber itself, loading uses require.js, so if you want to learn
> something to understand package manipulation, require.js will be
> better than node.js and bower."
>
> See I did not know that, and probably there is tons more to learn. If
> I can make amber work offline and without any dependency to backends,

Sans saving code, it already works now (and always worked). Amb
er is just bunch of .html and .js files, from browser point of view.

> it would be great. I have taken a look at require.js and as far I saw
> its a module management system. I did not expect that amber use it for
> storing js files, i thought all that is done with node.js.

It derives the address where to store files using require.toUrl. And of
course, loads files using it.

Herby

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kilon.alios

Re: Using amber without Node.js

I dont know how else to put it to you, I want amber to be usable outside the box, with zero installation on user computer and ability to run offline. As It is in order to run amber and be able to store my code I have 2 options a) having it online with a server backend that will take care of storing the code each time the user presses save b) Telling the user to install the dependencies so amber can store the code (js files) in his computer.

No idea what "sans saving" means sorry. I have googled it I get nothing meanigful.

"Just, to get them, the simplest thing is to install node.js, npm, bower and run bower install. But after that, Amber does not care."

I dont want my user to install anything, no dependancies , nothing and still be able to save code and work offline. I want code to be stored in his computer and not online.

I hope I am crystal clear now.

kilon.alios

Re: Using amber without Node.js

"Amber can works offline, if all files are in browser cache already and are loaded from there (sans saving code,"

So that means its possible to include all dependencies on client side ?

What I am,trying to do is same with pharo, where everything is contained in a single folder no installation required.

"Amber saves code by issuing PUT HTTP request. So either have server that accepts it and saves, or use you must use your own kind of transport, which saves different way."

yes I will implement my own way using indexedDB or other persistence library.

I am very fresh with web development and still trying to find a good way of doing this.

"It derives the address where to store files using require.toUrl. And of course, loads files using it."

ah ok thanks for the info. Looks like what I expected.

" Amb

er is just bunch of .html and .js files, from browser point of view."

that was my understanding too, but I am not sure about the role of node.js into this. I thought node.js was used to store code into js and st files. Maybe I am confused :D

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 1:31 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:

I dont know how else to put it to you, I want amber to be usable outside the box, with zero installation on user computer and ability to run offline. As It is in order to run amber and be able to store my code I have 2 options a) having it online with a server backend that will take care of storing the code each time the user presses save b) Telling the user to install the dependencies so amber can store the code (js files) in his computer.

No idea what "sans saving" means sorry. I have googled it I get nothing meanigful.

"Just, to get them, the simplest thing is to install node.js, npm, bower and run bower install. But after that, Amber does not care."

I dont want my user to install anything, no dependancies , nothing and still be able to save code and work offline. I want code to be stored in his computer and not online.

I hope I am crystal clear now.