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VAST Seaside problem at startup

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Seth Berman
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Re: VAST Seaside problem at startup

Seth Berman
Hi All,

Resurrecting this old thread since there is a new feature coming in VAST 2021 that will resolve this.
The original issue is that Seaside out-of-the-box requires OpenSSL to be setup and configured.
This is because we need the secure random number generator to provide good quality and safe session ids.

We now have developed EsSecureRandom which is included in the base Kernel.
EsSecureRandom has the same interface as EsRandom but uses the cryptographically strong RNG of the native platform.

- Seth


On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 8:24:22 AM UTC-5, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:


On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 4:29 PM Totally Objects <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, I found that but thought it was worth checking in case that was an old issue (as it mentions 8.6.2 and above!). Also, I wanted to publicise the need to other Seaside users in case they didn't know as I didn't find it easy to sort this out, until Seth helped.


Hi David,

Thanks for your concern, very much appreciated. As of 9.2, we ship two Seaside examples, one called "Hello World" with some basic setup and one called "Traffic Light" with advanced maps organization, packaging, and stack dumping and remote debugger examples. Both examples are shipped with in the manager of the product and they have also been documented. 

Seaside Hello World: <a href="https://www.instantiations.com/docs/92/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm#href=sv/serve104-run-snglex2.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.instantiations.com%2Fdocs%2F92%2Fwwhelp%2Fwwhimpl%2Fjs%2Fhtml%2Fwwhelp.htm%23href%3Dsv%2Fserve104-run-snglex2.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHb6uFq8hDNAFwSOM8DYOXAXZVyDg&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.instantiations.com%2Fdocs%2F92%2Fwwhelp%2Fwwhimpl%2Fjs%2Fhtml%2Fwwhelp.htm%23href%3Dsv%2Fserve104-run-snglex2.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHb6uFq8hDNAFwSOM8DYOXAXZVyDg&#39;;return true;">https://www.instantiations.com/docs/92/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm#href=sv/serve104-run-snglex2.html
Seaside Traffic Light: <a href="https://www.instantiations.com/docs/92/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm#href=sv/serve104-run-snglex3.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.instantiations.com%2Fdocs%2F92%2Fwwhelp%2Fwwhimpl%2Fjs%2Fhtml%2Fwwhelp.htm%23href%3Dsv%2Fserve104-run-snglex3.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGchgLXrZkGSfvCto0RCUKcKeOkkw&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.instantiations.com%2Fdocs%2F92%2Fwwhelp%2Fwwhimpl%2Fjs%2Fhtml%2Fwwhelp.htm%23href%3Dsv%2Fserve104-run-snglex3.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGchgLXrZkGSfvCto0RCUKcKeOkkw&#39;;return true;">https://www.instantiations.com/docs/92/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm#href=sv/serve104-run-snglex3.html

In those you can see that it's explained the dependency of Seaside on OpenSSL. 

Hope this helps too. 

Best,

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Long Haired David
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Re: VAST Seaside problem at startup

Long Haired David
So, I am just a very dense 75 year old finding that my30 years of Smalltalk doesn't help me one bit with this. I have just loaded Seaside into 9.2.2 and got the following error. This is outside my comfort zone so can you please explain my next steps. I thought that I had this sorted in previous 9.0 versions.smalltalk.pngsmalltalk2.png

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 3:17:42 PM UTC+1 Seth Berman wrote:
Hi All,

Resurrecting this old thread since there is a new feature coming in VAST 2021 that will resolve this.
The original issue is that Seaside out-of-the-box requires OpenSSL to be setup and configured.
This is because we need the secure random number generator to provide good quality and safe session ids.

We now have developed EsSecureRandom which is included in the base Kernel.
EsSecureRandom has the same interface as EsRandom but uses the cryptographically strong RNG of the native platform.

- Seth


On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 8:24:22 AM UTC-5, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:


On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 4:29 PM Totally Objects <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, I found that but thought it was worth checking in case that was an old issue (as it mentions 8.6.2 and above!). Also, I wanted to publicise the need to other Seaside users in case they didn't know as I didn't find it easy to sort this out, until Seth helped.


Hi David,

Thanks for your concern, very much appreciated. As of 9.2, we ship two Seaside examples, one called "Hello World" with some basic setup and one called "Traffic Light" with advanced maps organization, packaging, and stack dumping and remote debugger examples. Both examples are shipped with in the manager of the product and they have also been documented. 


In those you can see that it's explained the dependency of Seaside on OpenSSL. 

Hope this helps too. 

Best,

--
Mariano Martinez Peck
Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc.

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David
Totally Objects
Doing Smalltalk since 1989
Louis LaBrunda
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Re: VAST Seaside problem at startup

Louis LaBrunda
In reply to this post by Long Haired David
Hi Dave,

Someone from Instantiations will probably give you a definitive answer but till then I think you need openssl or its equivalent.  If you have the package there maybe a problem with the .ini file you are using in that it may not be pointing to the correct DLL or so file.  Check the CRYPTO_LIB= entry.
 
Lou



On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:33:51 PM UTC-4, Totally Objects wrote:
I have recently installed 8.6 as a clean install. I have loaded the Seaside feature and run up my code that was working under earlier versions of 8. When I try to log into the main Seaside control web page I get the following come up.

<a href="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gSnYAgcGCfw/VzOI9DXMZ6I/AAAAAAAAADE/mECWkXP8Es0BG48gPZPFKSvcTAwV6JWggCLcB/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-05-11%2Bat%2B20.30.56.png" style="margin-left:1em;margin-right:1em" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gSnYAgcGCfw/VzOI9DXMZ6I/AAAAAAAAADE/mECWkXP8Es0BG48gPZPFKSvcTAwV6JWggCLcB/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-05-11%2Bat%2B20.30.56.png&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gSnYAgcGCfw/VzOI9DXMZ6I/AAAAAAAAADE/mECWkXP8Es0BG48gPZPFKSvcTAwV6JWggCLcB/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-05-11%2Bat%2B20.30.56.png&#39;;return true;">


I know nothing about the Seaside internals. Can anyone tell me how to get this sorted please?


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Long Haired David
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Re: VAST Seaside problem at startup

Long Haired David
I know that Lou. I thought that they had removed the need for any extra work. Maybe, as usual, I misunderstood. I know how to sort it if nothing has changed as I have been doing it for the last few versions.
David
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 6:27:19 PM UTC+1 [hidden email] wrote:
Hi Dave,

Someone from Instantiations will probably give you a definitive answer but till then I think you need openssl or its equivalent.  If you have the package there maybe a problem with the .ini file you are using in that it may not be pointing to the correct DLL or so file.  Check the CRYPTO_LIB= entry.
 
Lou



On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:33:51 PM UTC-4, Totally Objects wrote:
I have recently installed 8.6 as a clean install. I have loaded the Seaside feature and run up my code that was working under earlier versions of 8. When I try to log into the main Seaside control web page I get the following come up.


I know nothing about the Seaside internals. Can anyone tell me how to get this sorted please?


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David
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Long Haired David
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Re: VAST Seaside problem at startup

Long Haired David
Ah - "coming in 2021". In my enthusiasm, I missed that. Do'h! I am off to sort it out.

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 8:03:45 PM UTC+1 Totally Objects wrote:
I know that Lou. I thought that they had removed the need for any extra work. Maybe, as usual, I misunderstood. I know how to sort it if nothing has changed as I have been doing it for the last few versions.
David
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 6:27:19 PM UTC+1 [hidden email] wrote:
Hi Dave,

Someone from Instantiations will probably give you a definitive answer but till then I think you need openssl or its equivalent.  If you have the package there maybe a problem with the .ini file you are using in that it may not be pointing to the correct DLL or so file.  Check the CRYPTO_LIB= entry.
 
Lou



On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:33:51 PM UTC-4, Totally Objects wrote:
I have recently installed 8.6 as a clean install. I have loaded the Seaside feature and run up my code that was working under earlier versions of 8. When I try to log into the main Seaside control web page I get the following come up.


I know nothing about the Seaside internals. Can anyone tell me how to get this sorted please?


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David
Totally Objects
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Mariano Martinez Peck-2
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Re: VAST Seaside problem at startup

Mariano Martinez Peck-2
Greeting all,

Yes, as pointed out, you are missing OpenSSL configuration: 

The reason is that Seaside for VAST uses OpenSSL to general secure randoms for the session cache. However, this is changing for VAST 2021. In fact, in the build being done today, we are introducing a really good Random generator class completely decoupled from OpenSSL and that will be included in a lower level app. So.... Seaside itself won't need OpenSSL anymore for generating randoms as it can now use that new class. Of course, if you want to serve HTTPS with Sst, then of course you still need OpenSSL ;)

Cheers,   

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 4:04 PM Totally Objects <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ah - "coming in 2021". In my enthusiasm, I missed that. Do'h! I am off to sort it out.

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 8:03:45 PM UTC+1 Totally Objects wrote:
I know that Lou. I thought that they had removed the need for any extra work. Maybe, as usual, I misunderstood. I know how to sort it if nothing has changed as I have been doing it for the last few versions.
David
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 6:27:19 PM UTC+1 [hidden email] wrote:
Hi Dave,

Someone from Instantiations will probably give you a definitive answer but till then I think you need openssl or its equivalent.  If you have the package there maybe a problem with the .ini file you are using in that it may not be pointing to the correct DLL or so file.  Check the CRYPTO_LIB= entry.
 
Lou



On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:33:51 PM UTC-4, Totally Objects wrote:
I have recently installed 8.6 as a clean install. I have loaded the Seaside feature and run up my code that was working under earlier versions of 8. When I try to log into the main Seaside control web page I get the following come up.


I know nothing about the Seaside internals. Can anyone tell me how to get this sorted please?


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Richard Sargent
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Re: VAST Seaside problem at startup

Richard Sargent
Administrator
Hopefully, 2021 will also see SstShaEngine decoupled from the continent of corequisite code that it's been packaged with. :-(


On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 12:23:45 PM UTC-7, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Greeting all,

Yes, as pointed out, you are missing OpenSSL configuration: 
<a href="https://www.instantiations.com/docs/FAQ/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm#href=va09002.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.instantiations.com%2Fdocs%2FFAQ%2Fwwhelp%2Fwwhimpl%2Fjs%2Fhtml%2Fwwhelp.htm%23href%3Dva09002.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGRgqnE6WSwC_Ccq3nD79l4u8xv7g&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.instantiations.com%2Fdocs%2FFAQ%2Fwwhelp%2Fwwhimpl%2Fjs%2Fhtml%2Fwwhelp.htm%23href%3Dva09002.html\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNGRgqnE6WSwC_Ccq3nD79l4u8xv7g&#39;;return true;">
https://www.instantiations.com/docs/FAQ/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm#href=va09002.html

The reason is that Seaside for VAST uses OpenSSL to general secure randoms for the session cache. However, this is changing for VAST 2021. In fact, in the build being done today, we are introducing a really good Random generator class completely decoupled from OpenSSL and that will be included in a lower level app. So.... Seaside itself won't need OpenSSL anymore for generating randoms as it can now use that new class. Of course, if you want to serve HTTPS with Sst, then of course you still need OpenSSL ;)

Cheers,   

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 4:04 PM Totally Objects <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="gBc-d7roBAAJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">da...@...> wrote:
Ah - "coming in 2021". In my enthusiasm, I missed that. Do'h! I am off to sort it out.

On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 8:03:45 PM UTC+1 Totally Objects wrote:
I know that Lou. I thought that they had removed the need for any extra work. Maybe, as usual, I misunderstood. I know how to sort it if nothing has changed as I have been doing it for the last few versions.
David
On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 6:27:19 PM UTC+1 [hidden email] wrote:
Hi Dave,

Someone from Instantiations will probably give you a definitive answer but till then I think you need openssl or its equivalent.  If you have the package there maybe a problem with the .ini file you are using in that it may not be pointing to the correct DLL or so file.  Check the CRYPTO_LIB= entry.
 
Lou



On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:33:51 PM UTC-4, Totally Objects wrote:
I have recently installed 8.6 as a clean install. I have loaded the Seaside feature and run up my code that was working under earlier versions of 8. When I try to log into the main Seaside control web page I get the following come up.

<a href="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gSnYAgcGCfw/VzOI9DXMZ6I/AAAAAAAAADE/mECWkXP8Es0BG48gPZPFKSvcTAwV6JWggCLcB/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-05-11%2Bat%2B20.30.56.png" style="margin-left:1em;margin-right:1em" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href=&#39;https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gSnYAgcGCfw/VzOI9DXMZ6I/AAAAAAAAADE/mECWkXP8Es0BG48gPZPFKSvcTAwV6JWggCLcB/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-05-11%2Bat%2B20.30.56.png&#39;;return true;" onclick="this.href=&#39;https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gSnYAgcGCfw/VzOI9DXMZ6I/AAAAAAAAADE/mECWkXP8Es0BG48gPZPFKSvcTAwV6JWggCLcB/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2016-05-11%2Bat%2B20.30.56.png&#39;;return true;">


I know nothing about the Seaside internals. Can anyone tell me how to get this sorted please?


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Re: VAST Seaside problem at startup

jtuchel
In reply to this post by John O'Keefe-3
Hi John,

the link doesn't work any more for version 9.2 (HTTP 404) for this link: https://www.instantiations.com/docs/FAQ/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm#href=va09002.html

BTW: Shouldn't this info be in the installation guide under some "Extra preparations for Seaside and other SSL related stuff" headline?

Joachim

John O'Keefe schrieb am Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2016 um 17:14:35 UTC+2:
David -

Beginning in VAST 8.6.2 Seaside prereqs the new Smalltalk Crypto support. The Crypto support requires OpenSSL DLLs (see Where do I get OpenSSL Libraries from and how do I set them up for VA Smalltalk 8.6.2 and above?). If these libraries are not available, this is the error you will get.

John


On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:33:51 PM UTC-4, Totally Objects wrote:
I have recently installed 8.6 as a clean install. I have loaded the Seaside feature and run up my code that was working under earlier versions of 8. When I try to log into the main Seaside control web page I get the following come up.


I know nothing about the Seaside internals. Can anyone tell me how to get this sorted please?


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Mariano Martinez Peck-2
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Re: VAST Seaside problem at startup

Mariano Martinez Peck-2
Hi Joachim, 

The new link is this one: https://www.instantiations.com/docs/FAQ/#page/FAQ/va09002.html  You can always get to it by searching "OpenSSL" in https://www.instantiations.com/docs/FAQ/

It might not be in the most findable place, but if you look here: https://www.instantiations.com/docs/922/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm#href=sv/serve104-run-snglex2.html  it says:



I agree it could be put in a place easier to find....but, honestly, this dependency on OpenSSL is going away in 10.x so I am not sure its worth.... 


Kind regards,


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 6:33 AM Joachim Tuchel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi John,

the link doesn't work any more for version 9.2 (HTTP 404) for this link: https://www.instantiations.com/docs/FAQ/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm#href=va09002.html

BTW: Shouldn't this info be in the installation guide under some "Extra preparations for Seaside and other SSL related stuff" headline?

Joachim

John O'Keefe schrieb am Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2016 um 17:14:35 UTC+2:
David -

Beginning in VAST 8.6.2 Seaside prereqs the new Smalltalk Crypto support. The Crypto support requires OpenSSL DLLs (see Where do I get OpenSSL Libraries from and how do I set them up for VA Smalltalk 8.6.2 and above?). If these libraries are not available, this is the error you will get.

John


On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:33:51 PM UTC-4, Totally Objects wrote:
I have recently installed 8.6 as a clean install. I have loaded the Seaside feature and run up my code that was working under earlier versions of 8. When I try to log into the main Seaside control web page I get the following come up.


I know nothing about the Seaside internals. Can anyone tell me how to get this sorted please?


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Mariano Martinez Peck
Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc.

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