VAST and Github Open Source Update
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VAST and Github Open Source Update
 
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Greetings folks, Also, we renamed our GitHub account, so please update your links accordingly…even though the repos themselves should automatically redirect. Best regards, Mariano Martinez Peck Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc. Email: [hidden email] Twitter: https://twitter.com/MartinezPeck Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VA Smalltalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/va-smalltalk/CAOUkibGF8BgTDVFxgM_Bs%3D7J%3DXwp7kab3UsrK43%2BfQLZ6_L45g%40mail.gmail.com. |
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Mariano, it is good to see VAST move closer to the world of current open source initiatives. There are many interesting and essential projects that are helpful and which we not only need to be able to get into VAST, but also contribute back to (just think of NeoCSV, NeoJSON, Glorp, Seaside, and many, many more
projects that started on Smalltalk dialects other than VAST but hep us
in everyday life). Being able to use one common repository and source (exchange) format will be a giant leap towards mor exchange and help between Smalltalk dialects. The Babel phase of Smalltalk needs to end and we've dreamed of it long enough now (was it 25 years?). I would say I have some initial experience with Smalltalk, but I still wonder how I would start using git with VAST. Do you have any pointers to documentation on
Would you say that what we have now is ready for the last point? I have the feeling that a lot of building blocks are now existing, but I don't have a full picture on what is possible now and what might be missing. I personally dream of an environment where I can download the latest Glorp, Seaside, whatever version from Github into VAST, fix a bug or write a little improvement and contribute it back to the central repository (creating a pull request, that is) directly into THE Glorp project (which is not existent yet, as long as the Company maintaning Glorp is not willing to share code openly, so Seaside or NeoJSON are probably better examples). How far away are we from this vision? What is there and what is missing? How would I start? Joachim Am Dienstag, 19. Mai 2020 16:12:20 UTC+2 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck:
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Another example which might be a great place to jointly work on an important Open Source Smalltalk project that would help all Smalltalks is this RB reformatting thinigie. See https://groups.google.com/d/msg/va-smalltalk/C59IoRlsiRs/QddytECBAgAJ
-- Am Mittwoch, 20. Mai 2020 06:12:14 UTC+2 schrieb Joachim Tuchel:
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Re: VAST and Github Open Source Update
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In reply to this post by jtuchel
Hi Joachim,
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 1:12 AM Joachim Tuchel <[hidden email]> wrote: > I would say I have some initial experience with Smalltalk, but I still wonder how I would start using git with VAST. Do you have any pointers to documentation on > how to load code from your git repository into VAST > how to export code from VAST into a git repository These two are described in the Tonel README[1], and will be updated soon as the 1.1 milestone is achieved. > how to cooperate with other developers using a git repository The existing ENVY tools continue to provide the value and features as they always did, and you still will need EM/Library to merge, compare, etc. However, the tonel-tools scope is to import/export with the added features like loading from a Tonel based repository into your image, and in most cases also version these changes directly into the library, load prerequisites, etc. > how to port a project on Github (say a new Seaside version, or some simpler project as a start ;-) ) to VAST I wouldn't start by one of the most complex projects among Smalltalk dialects, but even with simple ones there are many caveats, some of which has been addressed, and others that are in the backlog. You can read the recommendations for interoperability [2]. > Would you say that what we have now is ready for the last point? > I have the feeling that a lot of building blocks are now existing, but I don't have a full picture on what is possible now and what might be missing. Most of the building blocks are, but I don't think it is ready for something like that initially. We wanted to provide file based SCM support for VAST users for their applications, and of course choosing a format that is supported by other dialects like Tonel would bridge the gap that there is among dialects, enabling interoperation. And I emphasize the "bridging" part, because some gaps cannot be closed due to strong semantic differences, features support, implementation details, etc. Some limitations are due to these semantic mismatchs, and other due to limitations in the Tonel format itself (which in some cases we worked around). But there are a few cases of people needing to maintain the same project both in VAST and Pharo, and we got quite a feedback (and feature requests) that are also in the backlog to address these things. > I personally dream of an environment where I can download the latest Glorp, Seaside, whatever version from Github into VAST, fix a bug or write a little improvement and contribute it back to the central repository (creating a pull request, that is) directly into THE Glorp project (which is not existent yet, as long as the Company maintaning Glorp is not willing to share code openly, so Seaside or NeoJSON are probably better examples). > > How far away are we from this vision? What is there and what is missing? How would I start? So to summarize, if you use the tonel-vast tools you will be able to use a file based SCM to export/import VAST apps [3] and use the convenience of git features, and it is very likely you will be able to import existing packages from other dialects. But I'd say it's early for that vision in the current milestone, once the 1.2 milestone is reached I think we'll be closer. You can watch the slides from my presentation [4] to get an overview, some of the features in the roadmap were already completed, and new ones are being introduced as adoption grows. If you have further questions, I'll be happy to answer them or update the documentation accordingly. Best regards, [1] https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast/#programmatically [2] https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast/blob/master/docs/compatibility.md [3] Except for shadow applications [4] https://www.slideshare.net/FASTPresentations/tonel-repositories-in-va-smalltalk-by-esteban-maringolo -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VA Smalltalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/va-smalltalk/CAJMgPC%2B_oQuw8k-WhCw0G1UZbeK_PL7a%3DwcXuDDjeiKCSnunjg%40mail.gmail.com. |
Re: VAST and Github Open Source Update
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Hi,
-- We have tried this with some student projects. Is it planned to import/export the real developer (name of the EmUser) and the timestamp of a method? Should i this would improve the teamwork in the team even more, if it is traceable who has worked on this method and when (not only through the git history, but in envy) Thansk for your work! Best regards Am Mittwoch, 20. Mai 2020 22:03:12 UTC+2 schrieb Esteban Maringolo: Hi Joachim, You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VA Smalltalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/va-smalltalk/84b30ed6-f4c3-4882-ae59-522327e1a7a5%40googlegroups.com. |
Re: VAST and Github Open Source Update
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On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 5:35 PM Simon Franz <[hidden email]> wrote:
That's great to hear! We have fixed and improved a bunch of things since the first release, that will be released soon in Tonel 1.1. But...aside from that, any feedback is more than welcome!
That's a good idea in my opinion. For the first time we concentrate on not to write less than what the typical "file out" does. If you check the File Out now it doesn't write anything about ENVY. But I can see it being useful. Could you please create an issue in https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast/issues ? Thanks for the feedback! Mariano Martinez Peck Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc. Email: [hidden email] Twitter: https://twitter.com/MartinezPeck Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VA Smalltalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/va-smalltalk/CAOUkibEPg%2B1-71C-nWVednsVXyeQ70GKkZdGEHOyDiouEuxYZg%40mail.gmail.com. |
Re: VAST and Github Open Source Update
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Thanks Mariano.
-- I've added this as an issue / feature request. Am Mittwoch, 20. Mai 2020 22:51:58 UTC+2 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck:
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Re: VAST and Github Open Source Update
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In reply to this post by jtuchel
Greetings Joachim, Thanks for your enthusiasm and feedback. It's very much appreciated! The vision and your personal dream that you describe is aligned with mine as well. My personal list also includes better support for Docker, SmalltalkCI, etc. As you know, Instantiations' push for Git, Tonel, and open-source was not by accident. It was a purposeful decision to invest in these areas. If customers continue to have a need for these approaches and technologies, then we'll keep pushing development forward at a rapid pace. Otherwise, they will move to a lower priority in our roadmap. Ultimately, customer needs take priority, but we're certain that the community will benefit too. Currently, we have the support to export and import apps and maps through Tonel. You'll still need to use Git (if you want to) outside VAST to version (add, commit, push, pull, etc) that source code. We also have some support to ease the moving of code from/to other Smalltalk dialects supporting Tonel. It's really important to have a clear goal and vision for where we want to be, so we'll keep the community up-to-date on what that is. Check the roadmap [1], current milestones [2], as well as all the opened issues [3] to see what we have in mind for Tonel. We're still generating the building blocks at this point, and it's potentially a long road towards the ultimate vision. Finally, note that everything on the Instantiations GitHub account (like Tonel) is open-source, so you are always welcome to join us in our efforts and help turn this vision into a reality faster. Hopefully this has made things clearer. Best regards, Mariano [1] https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast/blob/master/docs/roadmap.md [2] https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast/milestones [3] https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast/issues On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 1:12 AM Joachim Tuchel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Mariano Martinez Peck Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc. Email: [hidden email] Twitter: https://twitter.com/MartinezPeck Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VA Smalltalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [hidden email]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/va-smalltalk/CAOUkibGLpMXEeWkbLL-kFuDnFXf4v%2B_JhhpY69jSSRaT9fdh6w%40mail.gmail.com. |
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