VM Crash after adding ram
Locked
 
|
So I've just upgraded my Ubuntu 14.04 machine to 16 gig of ram from 8
gig of ram and suddenly I can no longer start my Pharo VM; I don't understand why adding ram would make the vm stop working, I've been using it for year without problems. Can anyone interpret this: no objects after the end of memory pharo VM version: 3.9-7 #1 Tue May 6 08:26:29 UTC 2014 gcc 4.8.1 [Production ITHB VM] Built from: NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 May 6 2014 With: NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 May 6 2014 Revision: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: ef5832e6f70e5b24e8b9b1f4b8509a62b6c88040 Date: 2014-01-26 15:34:28 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> Jenkins build #14794 Build host: Linux wani07 2.6.24-32-xen #1 SMP Mon Dec 3 16:12:25 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/ [default: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/] C stack backtrace: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm[0x809add3] /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm(error+0x17)[0x809af37] /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm[0x806ee94] [0xb72ca6cd] [0xb72b0700] [0xb72ca2ca] [0xb72b0ccd] [0xb72b1989] [0xb72b0c5b] [0xb72b0700] [0xb8080227] [0xb807c7e1] [0xb807ca01] [0xb72b05c0] Smalltalk stack dump: 0xffa39fc8 M ExternalAddress class(Behavior)>allInstancesDo: 0xb86ca450: a(n) ExternalAddress class 0xffa39fec I ExternalAddress class>startUp: 0xb86ca450: a(n) ExternalAddress class 0xffa3a008 M ExternalObject class>startUp: 0xb86c8820: a(n) ExternalObject class 0xffa3a030 M [] in SmalltalkImage>send:toClassesNamedIn:with: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage 0xffa3a04c M BlockClosure>on:do: 0xc30bd160: a(n) BlockClosure 0xffa3a07c M [] in SmalltalkImage>send:toClassesNamedIn:with: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage 0xffa3a0a4 I OrderedCollection>do: 0xb75c4d54: a(n) OrderedCollection 0xffa3a0cc I SmalltalkImage>send:toClassesNamedIn:with: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage 0xffa3a0f8 I SmalltalkImage>processStartUpList: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage 0xffa3a124 I SmalltalkImage>snapshot:andQuit:embedded: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage 0xc26d5f90 s SmalltalkImage>snapshot:andQuit: 0xc2bff710 s WorldState class>saveAndQuit 0xc2bff76c s [] in ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>invokeWithEvent: 0xc2bff7c8 s BlockClosure>ensure: 0xc26d5114 s CursorWithMask(Cursor)>showWhile: 0xc26d50a4 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>invokeWithEvent: 0xc2bff824 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>mouseUp: 0xc2bff880 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>handleMouseUp: 0xc2bff8dc s MouseButtonEvent>sentTo: 0xc2bff938 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(Morph)>handleEvent: 0xc26d4f80 s MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchDefault:with: 0xc26d4fdc s MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: 0xc2bfefe0 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(Morph)>processEvent:using: 0xc2bff03c s MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchDefault:with: 0xc2bff098 s MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: 0xc2bff0f4 s MenuMorph(Morph)>processEvent:using: 0xc2bff150 s MenuMorph(Morph)>processEvent: 0xc2bff1ac s MenuMorph>handleFocusEvent: 0xc2bff208 s [] in HandMorph>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: 0xc2bff264 s [] in PasteUpMorph>becomeActiveDuring: 0xc2bff2c0 s BlockClosure>on:do: 0xc26d4e8c s PasteUpMorph>becomeActiveDuring: 0xc26d4e14 s HandMorph>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: 0xc2bff9f0 s HandMorph>sendEvent:focus:clear: 0xc26d4da0 s HandMorph>sendMouseEvent: 0xc26d4d38 s HandMorph>handleEvent: 0xc2bffa4c s HandMorph>processEvents 0xc2bffaa8 s [] in WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: 0xc2bffb04 s Array(SequenceableCollection)>do: 0xc2bffb60 s WorldState>handsDo: 0xc26d4bd4 s WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: 0xc2bffbbc s WorldState>doOneCycleFor: 0xc2bffc18 s PasteUpMorph>doOneCycle 0xc240332c s [] in Project class>spawnNewProcess 0xc2403078 s [] in BlockClosure>newProcess Most recent primitives at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: < basicNew: findSubstringViaPrimitive:in:startingAt:matchTable: new: basicNew new: at:put: at:put: perform:with: perform:with: at: at: perform:with: perform:with: someInstance nextInstance millisecondClockValue signal at:put: at:put: primSignal:atMilliseconds: millisecondClockValue wait primGetNextEvent: millisecondClockValue wait signal at:put: at:put: millisecondClockValue primSignal:atMilliseconds: millisecondClockValue wait signal wait atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance atAllPut: nextInstance stack page bytes 4096 available headroom 3300 minimum unused headroom 3540 (no objects after the end of memory) Aborted (core dumped) -- Ramon Leon |
|
|
Hi,
did you try a fresh Pharo image (without loaded code)? ExternalObject and ExternalAddress are FFI so… problem *could* be there… no idea what can be happening, but well… it could be there :) cheers, Esteban > On 30 Jul 2015, at 20:27, Ramon Leon <[hidden email]> wrote: > > So I've just upgraded my Ubuntu 14.04 machine to 16 gig of ram from 8 gig of ram and suddenly I can no longer start my Pharo VM; I don't understand why adding ram would make the vm stop working, I've been using it for year without problems. Can anyone interpret this: > > no objects after the end of memory > > pharo VM version: 3.9-7 #1 Tue May 6 08:26:29 UTC 2014 gcc 4.8.1 [Production ITHB VM] > Built from: NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 May 6 2014 > With: NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 May 6 2014 > Revision: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: ef5832e6f70e5b24e8b9b1f4b8509a62b6c88040 Date: 2014-01-26 15:34:28 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> Jenkins build #14794 > Build host: Linux wani07 2.6.24-32-xen #1 SMP Mon Dec 3 16:12:25 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux > plugin path: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/ [default: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/] > > > C stack backtrace: > /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm[0x809add3] > /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm(error+0x17)[0x809af37] > /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm[0x806ee94] > [0xb72ca6cd] > [0xb72b0700] > [0xb72ca2ca] > [0xb72b0ccd] > [0xb72b1989] > [0xb72b0c5b] > [0xb72b0700] > [0xb8080227] > [0xb807c7e1] > [0xb807ca01] > [0xb72b05c0] > > > Smalltalk stack dump: > 0xffa39fc8 M ExternalAddress class(Behavior)>allInstancesDo: 0xb86ca450: a(n) ExternalAddress class > 0xffa39fec I ExternalAddress class>startUp: 0xb86ca450: a(n) ExternalAddress class > 0xffa3a008 M ExternalObject class>startUp: 0xb86c8820: a(n) ExternalObject class > 0xffa3a030 M [] in SmalltalkImage>send:toClassesNamedIn:with: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage > 0xffa3a04c M BlockClosure>on:do: 0xc30bd160: a(n) BlockClosure > 0xffa3a07c M [] in SmalltalkImage>send:toClassesNamedIn:with: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage > 0xffa3a0a4 I OrderedCollection>do: 0xb75c4d54: a(n) OrderedCollection > 0xffa3a0cc I SmalltalkImage>send:toClassesNamedIn:with: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage > 0xffa3a0f8 I SmalltalkImage>processStartUpList: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage > 0xffa3a124 I SmalltalkImage>snapshot:andQuit:embedded: 0xb75c4c24: a(n) SmalltalkImage > 0xc26d5f90 s SmalltalkImage>snapshot:andQuit: > 0xc2bff710 s WorldState class>saveAndQuit > 0xc2bff76c s [] in ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>invokeWithEvent: > 0xc2bff7c8 s BlockClosure>ensure: > 0xc26d5114 s CursorWithMask(Cursor)>showWhile: > 0xc26d50a4 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>invokeWithEvent: > 0xc2bff824 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>mouseUp: > 0xc2bff880 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(MenuItemMorph)>handleMouseUp: > 0xc2bff8dc s MouseButtonEvent>sentTo: > 0xc2bff938 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(Morph)>handleEvent: > 0xc26d4f80 s MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchDefault:with: > 0xc26d4fdc s MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: > 0xc2bfefe0 s ToggleMenuItemMorph(Morph)>processEvent:using: > 0xc2bff03c s MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchDefault:with: > 0xc2bff098 s MorphicEventDispatcher>dispatchEvent:with: > 0xc2bff0f4 s MenuMorph(Morph)>processEvent:using: > 0xc2bff150 s MenuMorph(Morph)>processEvent: > 0xc2bff1ac s MenuMorph>handleFocusEvent: > 0xc2bff208 s [] in HandMorph>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: > 0xc2bff264 s [] in PasteUpMorph>becomeActiveDuring: > 0xc2bff2c0 s BlockClosure>on:do: > 0xc26d4e8c s PasteUpMorph>becomeActiveDuring: > 0xc26d4e14 s HandMorph>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: > 0xc2bff9f0 s HandMorph>sendEvent:focus:clear: > 0xc26d4da0 s HandMorph>sendMouseEvent: > 0xc26d4d38 s HandMorph>handleEvent: > 0xc2bffa4c s HandMorph>processEvents > 0xc2bffaa8 s [] in WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: > 0xc2bffb04 s Array(SequenceableCollection)>do: > 0xc2bffb60 s WorldState>handsDo: > 0xc26d4bd4 s WorldState>doOneCycleNowFor: > 0xc2bffbbc s WorldState>doOneCycleFor: > 0xc2bffc18 s PasteUpMorph>doOneCycle > 0xc240332c s [] in Project class>spawnNewProcess > 0xc2403078 s [] in BlockClosure>newProcess > > Most recent primitives > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > at:put: > < > basicNew: > findSubstringViaPrimitive:in:startingAt:matchTable: > new: > basicNew > new: > at:put: > at:put: > perform:with: > perform:with: > at: > at: > perform:with: > perform:with: > someInstance > nextInstance > millisecondClockValue > signal > at:put: > at:put: > primSignal:atMilliseconds: > millisecondClockValue > wait > primGetNextEvent: > millisecondClockValue > wait > signal > at:put: > at:put: > millisecondClockValue > primSignal:atMilliseconds: > millisecondClockValue > wait > signal > wait > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > atAllPut: > nextInstance > > stack page bytes 4096 available headroom 3300 minimum unused headroom 3540 > > (no objects after the end of memory) > Aborted (core dumped) > > -- > Ramon Leon > > |
|
|
In reply to this post by Ramon Leon-5
Hm, I updated my Ubuntu 14.04 64 machine (just a normal update).2015-07-30 20:27 GMT+02:00 Ramon Leon <[hidden email]>: So I've just upgraded my Ubuntu 14.04 machine to 16 gig of ram from 8 gig of ram and suddenly I can no longer start my Pharo VM; I don't understand why adding ram would make the vm stop working, I've been using it for year without problems. Can anyone interpret this: |
|
|
On 07/30/2015 01:05 PM, Nicolai Hess wrote:
> It crashes right after startup and not at the same call, the crash dumps > show different stacktraces. > Maybe a change from Ubuntu? Same here, different stack trace each time, seemingly at random places. pharo VM version: 3.9-7 #1 Tue May 6 08:26:29 UTC 2014 gcc 4.8.1 [Production ITHB VM] Built from: NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 May 6 2014 With: NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 May 6 2014 Revision: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: ef5832e6f70e5b24e8b9b1f4b8509a62b6c88040 Date: 2014-01-26 15:34:28 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> Jenkins build #14794 Build host: Linux wani07 2.6.24-32-xen #1 SMP Mon Dec 3 16:12:25 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i686 GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/ [default: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/] C stack backtrace: /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm[0x809add3] /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm[0x809b0d3] [0xf77cc420] /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libX11.so.6(_XVIDtoVisual+0x65)[0xf716ee75] /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libXrender.so.1(XRenderQueryFormats+0x50d)[0xb4e2094d] /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libXrender.so.1(XRenderQueryVersion+0x32)[0xb4e20b62] /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libXcursor.so.1(/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libXcursor.so.1(XcursorSupportsARGB+0x1b)[0xb4e28d0b] /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libXcursor.so.1(XcursorNoticeCreateBitmap+0x26)[0xb4e2b756] /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libX11.so.6(_XNoticeCreateBitmap+0xa6)[0xf714a926] /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libX11.so.6(XCreatePixmap+0xb4)[0xf714af14] /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libX11.so.6(XCreateBitmapFromData+0x51)[0xf7149df1] /usr/lib/pharo-vm/vm-display-X11.so(+0x703e)[0xf77b503e] /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm/usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm(interpret+0x2780)[0x8091ac0] /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm(enterSmalltalkExecutiveImplementation+0x4e)[0x80945ce] /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm(interpret+0x1c7)[0x808f507] /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm(main+0x2b7)[0x805b427] /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xf3)[0xf75aba83] /usr/lib/pharo-vm/pharo-vm[0x805b75d] more attached -- Ramon Leon |
crash.dmp (205K) |
|
In reply to this post by Nicolai Hess
Hi guys
Thanks for reporting. We are sorry about such problem. This is strange. Esteban is back and I'm will be back at work next wednesday (even I'm totally stupid and helpless about the vm) I can support peopler around :). Stef Le 30/7/15 22:05, Nicolai Hess a
écrit :
|
|
|
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
On 07/30/2015 11:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
> Hi, > > did you try a fresh Pharo image (without loaded code)? ExternalObject and ExternalAddress are FFI so… problem*could* be there… no idea what can be happening, but well… it could be there:) > > cheers, > Esteban After poking around the net a bit with some of the error messages I saw Inconsistency detected by ld.so: dl-open.c: 610: _dl_open: Assertion `_dl_debug_initialize (0, args.nsid)->r_state == RT_CONSISTENT' failed! it was apparently some corrupted Ubuntu lib's that after running updates again and rebooting seem to have repaired themselves. The VM starting working fine after this last reboot which is admittedly the first reboot since I got the PC back up with the new amount of ram. So, apparently not a VM issue, thanks for the advice anyway. -- Ramon Leon |
|
|
Thanks for the info. Am 01.08.2015 2:03 vorm. schrieb "Ramon Leon" <[hidden email]>:
On 07/30/2015 11:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: |
|
|
In reply to this post by Ramon Leon-5
Thanks for the info.
I hope you are going well :) Le 1/8/15 02:03, Ramon Leon a écrit : > On 07/30/2015 11:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> Hi, >> >> did you try a fresh Pharo image (without loaded code)? ExternalObject >> and ExternalAddress are FFI so… problem*could* be there… no idea what >> can be happening, but well… it could be there:) >> >> cheers, >> Esteban > > After poking around the net a bit with some of the error messages I saw > > Inconsistency detected by ld.so: dl-open.c: 610: _dl_open: Assertion > `_dl_debug_initialize (0, args.nsid)->r_state == RT_CONSISTENT' failed! > > it was apparently some corrupted Ubuntu lib's that after running > updates again and rebooting seem to have repaired themselves. The VM > starting working fine after this last reboot which is admittedly the > first reboot since I got the PC back up with the new amount of ram. > So, apparently not a VM issue, thanks for the advice anyway. > |
«
Return to Pharo Smalltalk Users
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |