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VM team

David T. Lewis
 
The Squeak oversight board suggested that we formalize a VM team
(http://squeakboard.wordpress.com/) and Bert asked if I would be willing
to serve as team leader. I replied that I would be happy to do so.

I'd like to start by asking the list, and specifically the major platform
developers (Ian, John, Andreas) for your support - do you agree that
this is a good idea, and are you willing to have me serve as team
leader?

We will need to set some team objectives, and then establish a plan
to achieve them. For starters, here are some initial ideas for a set
of VM team objectives. All comments, additions, deletions, objections,
etc are welcome.

- Community
  - Communicate status and announcements to the community
  - Periodically update team objectives based on community input
  - Ensure availability of known-good versions (SqueakMap, Universes, SqueakSource)
  - Identify where help is needed (e.g. Sugar, Ubuntu, sound support)
  - Where appropriate, inform Board of resource or funding needs
    (e.g. access to computers for building and testing VM distributions)
- Support Squeak as an open system
  - Support educational goals, an accessible VM is part of Squeak as a learning tool
  - Write it in Squeak, run it in Squeak, debug it in Squeak (InterpreterSimulator should work)
  - Everyone should be able to explore and create their own Squeak VM
  - Ensure license integrity
- Provide solid base to enable VM distributions
  - Support distribution developers (Ian, John, Andreas, Tim, others)
    - Primary support for Mac/Win/unix/iSqueak
    - Enablement for others including RiscOS and SqueakNOS, new projects
    - Identify resources to support distribution developers
  - Coordinate changes across the several platform source trees and VMMaker
  - Ensure owners and maintainers for plugins
  - Drive resolution of Mantis issues
- Provide base to support new ideas for VM
  - Support and enable new development (Spoon, Exupery, Cog, Hydra, others)
  - Enable new image formats (including 64-bit object memory, Cog)
- Support Squeak new directions
  - Support eToys, OLPC, SqueakNOS, Cuis, Pharo
  - Provide common VM where possible, encourage extensions as needed

Dave

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Re: VM team

askoh
Administrator
How do I join the team? Aik-Siong Koh
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Re: VM team

Andreas.Raab
In reply to this post by David T. Lewis
 
Sounds good to me. I see this more as a formalization of the arrangement
we already have, since you have been taking Tim's role lately with doing
most of the integration etc. So you've got my support here.

In terms of what to do I think what we most need is a bit more clarity
for people. For example, how does one actually set up a VMMaker image?
You kinda need bits from the four corners of the world and I don't think
the process is described anywhere. The shorthand in my VMMaker image says:
* Load Speech from http://source.squeakfoundation.org/39a
* Load FFI from Universes
* Load VMMaker from http://squeaksource.com/VMMaker
* Load Balloon3D-Constants, Balloon3D-Plugins from
http://squeaksource.com/Balloon3D
* Load Freetype somehow

This could certainly be improved. The simulator is another piece of the
story where we should spend enough time that it can actually be used for
simulation of various aspects. And then maybe fix the cruel and unusal
UI for VMMaker ;-)

Cheers,
   - Andreas

David T. Lewis wrote:

>  
> The Squeak oversight board suggested that we formalize a VM team
> (http://squeakboard.wordpress.com/) and Bert asked if I would be willing
> to serve as team leader. I replied that I would be happy to do so.
>
> I'd like to start by asking the list, and specifically the major platform
> developers (Ian, John, Andreas) for your support - do you agree that
> this is a good idea, and are you willing to have me serve as team
> leader?
>
> We will need to set some team objectives, and then establish a plan
> to achieve them. For starters, here are some initial ideas for a set
> of VM team objectives. All comments, additions, deletions, objections,
> etc are welcome.
>
> - Community
>   - Communicate status and announcements to the community
>   - Periodically update team objectives based on community input
>   - Ensure availability of known-good versions (SqueakMap, Universes, SqueakSource)
>   - Identify where help is needed (e.g. Sugar, Ubuntu, sound support)
>   - Where appropriate, inform Board of resource or funding needs
>     (e.g. access to computers for building and testing VM distributions)
> - Support Squeak as an open system
>   - Support educational goals, an accessible VM is part of Squeak as a learning tool
>   - Write it in Squeak, run it in Squeak, debug it in Squeak (InterpreterSimulator should work)
>   - Everyone should be able to explore and create their own Squeak VM
>   - Ensure license integrity
> - Provide solid base to enable VM distributions
>   - Support distribution developers (Ian, John, Andreas, Tim, others)
>     - Primary support for Mac/Win/unix/iSqueak
>     - Enablement for others including RiscOS and SqueakNOS, new projects
>     - Identify resources to support distribution developers
>   - Coordinate changes across the several platform source trees and VMMaker
>   - Ensure owners and maintainers for plugins
>   - Drive resolution of Mantis issues
> - Provide base to support new ideas for VM
>   - Support and enable new development (Spoon, Exupery, Cog, Hydra, others)
>   - Enable new image formats (including 64-bit object memory, Cog)
> - Support Squeak new directions
>   - Support eToys, OLPC, SqueakNOS, Cuis, Pharo
>   - Provide common VM where possible, encourage extensions as needed
>
> Dave
>
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Re: VM team

johnmci
 

On 11-Apr-09, at 10:56 AM, Andreas Raab wrote:

> Sounds good to me. I see this more as a formalization of the  
> arrangement we already have, since you have been taking Tim's role  
> lately with doing most of the integration etc. So you've got my  
> support here.
>
> In terms of what to do I think what we most need is a bit more  
> clarity for people. For example, how does one actually set up a  
> VMMaker image? You kinda need bits from the four corners of the  
> world and I don't think the process is described anywhere. The  
> shorthand in my VMMaker image says:
> * Load Speech from http://source.squeakfoundation.org/39a
> * Load FFI from Universes
> * Load VMMaker from http://squeaksource.com/VMMaker
> * Load Balloon3D-Constants, Balloon3D-Plugins from http://squeaksource.com/Balloon3D
> * Load Freetype somehow
>
> This could certainly be improved. The simulator is another piece of  
> the story where we should spend enough time that it can actually be  
> used for simulation of various aspects. And then maybe fix the cruel  
> and unusal UI for VMMaker ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>  - Andreas



Well having pointers to everything on squeakvm.org would help.
People still load a 3.8 vmmaker from squeaksource for example, so a  
bit more of where do I start if I have this platform would help


mac carbon VM build instructions here

http://squeakvm.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/trunk/platforms/Mac%20OS/vm/Documentation/readme?rev=1708&view=auto

--
=
=
=
========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
=
=
=
========================================================================



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Re: VM team

David T. Lewis
In reply to this post by Andreas.Raab
 
Good, thanks. So three things to include the objectives:

  - Clarify (and improve) the process of building a VM; dependencies, what
    is needed, where to get the pieces, how to set up a VMMaker image
  - Make the simulator usable
  - Improve the builder tool UI

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:56:48AM -0700, Andreas Raab wrote:

>
> Sounds good to me. I see this more as a formalization of the arrangement
> we already have, since you have been taking Tim's role lately with doing
> most of the integration etc. So you've got my support here.
>
> In terms of what to do I think what we most need is a bit more clarity
> for people. For example, how does one actually set up a VMMaker image?
> You kinda need bits from the four corners of the world and I don't think
> the process is described anywhere. The shorthand in my VMMaker image says:
> * Load Speech from http://source.squeakfoundation.org/39a
> * Load FFI from Universes
> * Load VMMaker from http://squeaksource.com/VMMaker
> * Load Balloon3D-Constants, Balloon3D-Plugins from
> http://squeaksource.com/Balloon3D
> * Load Freetype somehow
>
> This could certainly be improved. The simulator is another piece of the
> story where we should spend enough time that it can actually be used for
> simulation of various aspects. And then maybe fix the cruel and unusal
> UI for VMMaker ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>   - Andreas
>
> David T. Lewis wrote:
> >
> >The Squeak oversight board suggested that we formalize a VM team
> >(http://squeakboard.wordpress.com/) and Bert asked if I would be willing
> >to serve as team leader. I replied that I would be happy to do so.
> >
> >I'd like to start by asking the list, and specifically the major platform
> >developers (Ian, John, Andreas) for your support - do you agree that
> >this is a good idea, and are you willing to have me serve as team
> >leader?
> >
> >We will need to set some team objectives, and then establish a plan
> >to achieve them. For starters, here are some initial ideas for a set
> >of VM team objectives. All comments, additions, deletions, objections,
> >etc are welcome.
> >
> >- Community
> >  - Communicate status and announcements to the community
> >  - Periodically update team objectives based on community input
> >  - Ensure availability of known-good versions (SqueakMap, Universes,
> >  SqueakSource)
> >  - Identify where help is needed (e.g. Sugar, Ubuntu, sound support)
> >  - Where appropriate, inform Board of resource or funding needs
> >    (e.g. access to computers for building and testing VM distributions)
> >- Support Squeak as an open system
> >  - Support educational goals, an accessible VM is part of Squeak as a
> >  learning tool
> >  - Write it in Squeak, run it in Squeak, debug it in Squeak
> >  (InterpreterSimulator should work)
> >  - Everyone should be able to explore and create their own Squeak VM
> >  - Ensure license integrity
> >- Provide solid base to enable VM distributions
> >  - Support distribution developers (Ian, John, Andreas, Tim, others)
> >    - Primary support for Mac/Win/unix/iSqueak
> >    - Enablement for others including RiscOS and SqueakNOS, new projects
> >    - Identify resources to support distribution developers
> >  - Coordinate changes across the several platform source trees and VMMaker
> >  - Ensure owners and maintainers for plugins
> >  - Drive resolution of Mantis issues
> >- Provide base to support new ideas for VM
> >  - Support and enable new development (Spoon, Exupery, Cog, Hydra, others)
> >  - Enable new image formats (including 64-bit object memory, Cog)
> >- Support Squeak new directions
> >  - Support eToys, OLPC, SqueakNOS, Cuis, Pharo
> >  - Provide common VM where possible, encourage extensions as needed
> >
> >Dave
> >
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Re: VM team

David T. Lewis
In reply to this post by askoh
 
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:11:22AM -0700, askoh wrote:
>  
>
> How do I join the team? Aik-Siong Koh

Excellent question. We have not discussed this yet, but as a going
in position I would say that if you are on this list, and are willing
and able to contribute, then you are a member of the team.

It is quite important that we do careful change management for the
VM itself (platform sources in Subversion, VMMaker project), possibly
with a limited number of people directly involved in updates. The
current controls and procedures seem to be working well for this, so
I see no issues there. And since this part of the process is working
well, it can only be a good thing to get more new people involved in
the team.

Thanks for offering to contribute, and welcome to the VM team.

Dave

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Re: VM team

Ken G. Brown
In reply to this post by David T. Lewis
 
At 11:05 AM -0400 4/11/09, David T. Lewis apparently wrote:

>
>The Squeak oversight board suggested that we formalize a VM team
>(http://squeakboard.wordpress.com/) and Bert asked if I would be willing
>to serve as team leader. I replied that I would be happy to do so.
>
>I'd like to start by asking the list, and specifically the major platform
>developers (Ian, John, Andreas) for your support - do you agree that
>this is a good idea, and are you willing to have me serve as team
>leader?
>
>We will need to set some team objectives, and then establish a plan
>to achieve them. For starters, here are some initial ideas for a set
>of VM team objectives. All comments, additions, deletions, objections,
>etc are welcome.
>
>- Community
>  - Communicate status and announcements to the community
>  - Periodically update team objectives based on community input
>  - Ensure availability of known-good versions (SqueakMap, Universes, SqueakSource)
>  - Identify where help is needed (e.g. Sugar, Ubuntu, sound support)
>  - Where appropriate, inform Board of resource or funding needs
>    (e.g. access to computers for building and testing VM distributions)
>- Support Squeak as an open system
>  - Support educational goals, an accessible VM is part of Squeak as a learning tool
>  - Write it in Squeak, run it in Squeak, debug it in Squeak (InterpreterSimulator should work)
>  - Everyone should be able to explore and create their own Squeak VM
>  - Ensure license integrity
>- Provide solid base to enable VM distributions
>  - Support distribution developers (Ian, John, Andreas, Tim, others)
>    - Primary support for Mac/Win/unix/iSqueak
>    - Enablement for others including RiscOS and SqueakNOS, new projects
>    - Identify resources to support distribution developers
>  - Coordinate changes across the several platform source trees and VMMaker
>  - Ensure owners and maintainers for plugins
>  - Drive resolution of Mantis issues
>- Provide base to support new ideas for VM
>  - Support and enable new development (Spoon, Exupery, Cog, Hydra, others)
>  - Enable new image formats (including 64-bit object memory, Cog)
>- Support Squeak new directions
>  - Support eToys, OLPC, SqueakNOS, Cuis, Pharo
>  - Provide common VM where possible, encourage extensions as needed
>
>Dave

Maybe now would be the time to go through the plugins and make all the names of source folders, plugin names and generated plugin names more consistent with the convention? Some cleanup would surely improve things for the future by reducing the confusion factor.

Way back, I was rooting around everywhere learning where things happened and it being the first time through, I was initially quite confused by the following:

internal plugin B3DEnginePlugin generated as Squeak3D
internal plugin BalloonEnginePlugin generated as B2DPlugin
internal plugin BitBltSimulation generated as BitBltPlugin
internal plugin DSAPlugin generated as DSAPrims
internal plugin DeflatePlugin generated as ZipPlugin
internal plugin FFIPlugin generated as SqueakFFIPrims
internal plugin KlattSynthesizerPlugin generated as Klatt
internal plugin LargeIntegersPlugin generated as LargeIntegers

There most likely are more that I missed.

Ken G. Brown
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Re: VM team

David T. Lewis
 
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 06:02:10PM -0600, Ken G. Brown wrote:

>  
> Maybe now would be the time to go through the plugins and make all the names of source folders, plugin names and generated plugin names more consistent with the convention? Some cleanup would surely improve things for the future by reducing the confusion factor.
>
> Way back, I was rooting around everywhere learning where things happened and it being the first time through, I was initially quite confused by the following:
>
> internal plugin B3DEnginePlugin generated as Squeak3D
> internal plugin BalloonEnginePlugin generated as B2DPlugin
> internal plugin BitBltSimulation generated as BitBltPlugin
> internal plugin DSAPlugin generated as DSAPrims
> internal plugin DeflatePlugin generated as ZipPlugin
> internal plugin FFIPlugin generated as SqueakFFIPrims
> internal plugin KlattSynthesizerPlugin generated as Klatt
> internal plugin LargeIntegersPlugin generated as LargeIntegers
>
> There most likely are more that I missed.

This might be good for some of the plugins that are maintained in the
VMMaker package inself, but in general I worry that we might create
more confusion than we cure. We definitely would not want to change the
actual module names (the 'Bar' part of 'FooPlugin generated as Bar'),
as that would require changes to existing images. It would be OK to
change the class names (the 'FooPlugin' part) in cases where it does
add confusion as to who wrote, owns, or maintains the plugin.

The Pharo folks (I forget who) have started keeping a list of what
plugins are being used where. I think it might be best overall to
adopt that idea - document the plugins better, clarify who maintains
what and where, and finally think about changing naming in cases
where it does not add to the general confusion.

Dave

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Re: VM team

David T. Lewis
 
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 10:37:26AM -0400, David T. Lewis wrote:
>  
> as that would require changes to existing images. It would be OK to
> change the class names (the 'FooPlugin' part) in cases where it does
> add confusion as to who wrote, owns, or maintains the plugin.

I meant to say "in cases where it does not add confusion".

Dave