VSE migration or upgrade

Hi

Thanks for your response, I posted a second time with more details.

The two apps. we want to migrate are a search engine and a "data analyzer
and reporting" modules.

In the two cases, there is a simple GUI: a log interface (so a window with a
large text area).

The two involved string manipulations (no regex) and large collections and
dictionaries.  We load up to 1 mo of date in memory in order to hash them in
dictionaries, split in collection.... in that way, I really don't want to
port that in Java and test all that.

So i'm looking for a nice IDE, with repository, easy deployment.... we are
already using Java and Eclipse and I read something somewhere about
Smalltalk in Eclipe.

It also can be Windows and/or Linux based.

Thanks again

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerardo Richarte" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: VSE migration or upgrade


***           this signature added by listserv             ***
*** Visit  http://www.listserv.dfn.de/archives/vswe-l.html ***
*** for archive browsing and VSWE-L membership management  ***

>Under the heading of Smalltalk and JavaScript, has everyone seen this:
>http://amber-lang.net/

Yes!, amber-lang and S8 are derived works based on jTalk, Clamato,
 Ceibo and other seminal works based on translation from smalltalk
 to javascript.
In case of S8, it is a set of tools/frameworks at diferent levels
 to enable running smalltalk efficiently and native on diferent
 devices (extending/modifying at smalltalk level, at javascript level,
 and/or at VM level e.g. in C++ for the case of using V8
 execution engine).

In S8, we are interested in migration from VSE and other smalltalk
 dialects and exploiting V8 customization where necesary/convenient;
 and have been working considering our investment in VSE
 during decades.
We used S8 also to migrate frameworks to run on Android devices,
 server side code, windows 8, etc... (S8 is also used outside
 web browser).

Leo


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise
[mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Lee Breisacher
Enviado el: jueves, 27 de octubre de 2011 09:37
Para: [hidden email]
Asunto: Re: VSE migration or upgrade

Under the heading of Smalltalk and JavaScript, has everyone seen this:
http://amber-lang.net/


On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:09:08 +1100, Derek Renouf
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Sharing some of my opinions:
>
>If you have an existing application in VSE then the S8 approach sounds
great because it means that applications running on Win 7/8 can benefit from
multi-processor support and an option for 64 bit, with the potential to hook
into emerging HTML5/JavaScript libraries for the UI.
>
>I think that Win 7/8 in the desktop environment with gesture support is
going to be around for the foreseeable future. Hybrid notebooks and desktops
released next year should have touch screens when Win 8 goes live, offering
a combination of mouse, keyboard and touch.
>
>If you're trying to write a 100% mobile device application then from
>what
I've seen to date the best cross-platform mobile device tools for
consideration is HTML5/JavaScript. PhoneGap for instance (which has been
recently bought by Adobe) allows you to create cross-platform native
applications for mobile devices using this technology. It also lets you tap
into device-specific APIs. Having development tools that compile into
JavaScript and can use related frameworks will be a game changer - S8 has
the potential to do this. You can then code in Smalltalk and deploy on to
fast JavaScript VMs. Goggle's Dart environment already takes this approach
and as I understand it, has strong Smalltalk influences (other than the
syntax).
>
>S8 is in a position to support a modernising of VSE that can reuse the
deluge of coming HTML5/JavaScript frameworks. It may also then facilitate
future Smalltalk-based mobile applications. It is supports 64 bit and
multi-processes in the VM, and if this is made available to VSE, then
certainly modern fat client and heavy-duty server applications can be
written with this technology.
>
>Going out on a limb here: if only Cincom would get behind this effort
>and
make this their standard VM across all of their products, there would be
more opportunities for us all. There would be opportunities then for Cincom
(or other vendors) to write value-added Java, .NET and other UI interfaces
(for their existing product lines, including VSE), as well as other
application frameworks, which could be licensed as part of a package that
includes the S8 VM, or even champion a Smalltalk-based "PhoneGap" style of
tool with this. Just thoughts...
>
>-- Derek
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alejandro F. Reimondo be "smalltalk code",  but running in a modern execution engine  (open source
and mantained by a BIG community).
>I mean mantain smalltalk code and execute as javascript  or another OO
execution engine (with complete object semantics)  that support the
requirements of your application.
>
>The cost to move from VSE to another (old) smalltalk  environment is
>not
small and takes time  (and expert resources) to make it a successfull
experience... and we do not know how much  time will take to an "old"
environment become  obsolete in the current world of software  development
(/bussiness).
>It can be that the smalltalk platform you  choose will vanish before
>you
finish  your migration (or in less than a decade after that).
>
>The size of the community enhancing the execution engine  is also a
>point
to consider, IMO all smalltalk communities  suffer of minimal size to grant
the execution engine (VM)  will be mantained and supported to execute
efficiently  in modern devices.
***           this signature added by listserv             ***
*** Visit  http://www.listserv.dfn.de/archives/vswe-l.html ***
*** for archive browsing and VSWE-L membership management  ***

***           this signature added by listserv             ***
*** Visit  http://www.listserv.dfn.de/archives/vswe-l.html ***
*** for archive browsing and VSWE-L membership management  ***

Thanks a lot

One of the two apps. already run on VisualWorks 3.0, the other one on VSE

I will take a look at the evaluation version.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nowak, Helge" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:22 AM
Subject: AW: VSE migration or upgrade


***           this signature added by listserv             ***
*** Visit  http://www.listserv.dfn.de/archives/vswe-l.html ***
*** for archive browsing and VSWE-L membership management  ***

Hi,
In case of using S8 platform you can exploit node.js
 server frameworks, regExp searching capabilities
 and V8 perfomance.
The perfomance of the system will not degradate
 on smalltalk execution, and you can bind to any
 framework implemented at the level of
 convenience (smalltalk, js or C++) linked
 at the sorce level it must be.
Ale.

Refs. on node.js
http://nodejs.org/
http://nodejs.org/jsconf2010.pdf


----- Original Message -----
From: "Chantal Thibodeau" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: AW: VSE migration or upgrade


***           this signature added by listserv             ***
*** Visit  http://www.listserv.dfn.de/archives/vswe-l.html ***
*** for archive browsing and VSWE-L membership management  ***

This is a different story. As you said, you've hit the 4GB limit, and
that's a sign, probably, that the data shouldn't be in memory at all
(you may hit the next limit sooner than you think, or not).

Since the GUI is not your limitation, and the application is apparently
data and process intensive, I'd suggest taking a look at Gemstone +
Pharo. The tools are good, and I think it's a good opportunity, since
you are going to invest time in porting, to jump to Gemstone, and
eventually drop the SQL (Gemstone can deal with SQL too, but it's not
really the best way to have storage if you are using Gemstone)

Gemstone is free for commercial use, has lots and lots of experience in
datasets larger than what we can grasp, and in applications with
realtime requirements. And though I don't think they offer free support
officially, they are usually very responsive in the mailing lists.

Then, again, the other two options (since speed is a must for your app)
I would say are VW and Instantiations. Though if you have already to
maintain an app in Visual Works, and have people who swim in VW already,
that kind of puts a bias to the decision, doesn't it? :)

    gera

On 10/27/2011 10:48 AM, Chantal Thibodeau wrote:
> Thank you all.
>
> We have a lot a Smalltalk code still running, some with "real" user
> interfaces.  The two applications we are looking at to move on are
> - a search engine (so, processing code a lot, Strings and Collections, a
> really lite interface to show the current resquest and that's all)
> - a data analyzer, wich lookup in a SQL databases to compare Strings and
> load tons of data in memory to generate summarized reports.

***           this signature added by listserv             ***
*** Visit  http://www.listserv.dfn.de/archives/vswe-l.html ***
*** for archive browsing and VSWE-L membership management  ***

Hi Chantal

My advice to you would be to evaluate the vendors and communities carefully before choosing a platform. Your choice of platform will result in a very strong vendor lock-in, and you need to make sure that this lock-in won't give you trouble down the road.



--
Henrik Høyer
Chief Software Architect
[hidden email] * (+45) 4029 2092
Marievej 15 * 4600 Køge
www.sPeople.dk * (+45) 7023 7775


-----Original Message-----
From: Using Visual Smalltalk for Windows/Enterprise [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chantal Thibodeau
Sent: 26. oktober 2011 15:16
To: [hidden email]
Subject: VSE migration or upgrade

Hi

We are a business with about 15 years of development, part in Smalltalk, part in Java.  The old stuff was done in Smalltalk and all the new stuff is done in Java.  But we still have large portion of code maintained and improved in Smalltalk.  Be we have the limit of it 16 bits: 4 go max file size, 1 go of allocated RAM memory...

We are thinking of migrating all this Smallalk code to Java or migrating it to a new version of Smalltalk (wich I prefer because i love so much that language).

Do you have any recommendations about GNU, Squeak, Pharo, Cincom (we previously upgraded a bit to VisualWorks 3.0 but I didn't love it) ?

Thanks a lot

***           this signature added by listserv             ***
*** Visit  http://www.listserv.dfn.de/archives/vswe-l.html ***
*** for archive browsing and VSWE-L membership management  ***

***           this signature added by listserv             ***
*** Visit  http://www.listserv.dfn.de/archives/vswe-l.html ***
*** for archive browsing and VSWE-L membership management  ***