VW 7.8 - Unloadable definitions of ExternalInterface

When I load one of our packages that has a couple of ExternalInterfaces
one of the interfaces ends up with unloadable definitions.
If I reconcile and reload the package, the load is successful.

Is there a fix/workaround for this. I don't want to be required
to do a reload.

Thanks.

Terry
 
===========================================================
Terry Raymond
Crafted Smalltalk
80 Lazywood Ln.
Tiverton, RI  02878
(401) 624-4517      [hidden email]
<http://www.craftedsmalltalk.com>
===========================================================



_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Terry:

> When I load one of our packages that has a couple of ExternalInterfaces
> one of the interfaces ends up with unloadable definitions.
> If I reconcile and reload the package, the load is successful.
>
> Is there a fix/workaround for this. I don't want to be required
> to do a reload.

I would love to have an example of this, because we know it _could_ happen, but haven't been able to cobble together a way to reproduce it ourselves.

There are several possible reasons:

One ExternalInteface is a subclass or sibling of another, and there is a complex interrelationship between definitions in one to the other.

The "problem" ExternalInterface has deeply intertwined definitions/typedefs/etc.

For ExternalInterfaces, we try two initial, and for any still unloadable methods, one more pass at compiling the methods. If the interrelationships are deeper than that, it could fail, only succeeding once stuff is in the image, and the delta load you mention occurs.

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?





_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Terry and Sam,

We have encountered the same problem (started when we moved from VW7.2 to VW7.7).  Also, the problem does not occur consistently.  I have repeated a load >10 times successfully with Atomic Loading turned on....on the 11th build we hit an unloadable definition?

We now just turn off Atomic Loading and have no issues with our ExternalInterface subclasses.

Regards,

Igor

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Samuel S. Shuster
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 3:00 PM
To: Terry Raymond
Cc: VWNC
Subject: Re: [vwnc] VW 7.8 - Unloadable definitions of ExternalInterface

Terry:

> When I load one of our packages that has a couple of ExternalInterfaces
> one of the interfaces ends up with unloadable definitions.
> If I reconcile and reload the package, the load is successful.
>
> Is there a fix/workaround for this. I don't want to be required
> to do a reload.

I would love to have an example of this, because we know it _could_ happen, but haven't been able to cobble together a way to reproduce it ourselves.

There are several possible reasons:

One ExternalInteface is a subclass or sibling of another, and there is a complex interrelationship between definitions in one to the other.

The "problem" ExternalInterface has deeply intertwined definitions/typedefs/etc.

For ExternalInterfaces, we try two initial, and for any still unloadable methods, one more pass at compiling the methods. If the interrelationships are deeper than that, it could fail, only succeeding once stuff is in the image, and the delta load you mention occurs.

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?





_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

We had similar issues, but instead of disabling the atomic loader, I
moved all of our external interfaces into a single package and published
it binary. We haven't had a problem since.

-Boris

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Dmytryk, Igor
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:18 AM
To: 'Samuel S. Shuster'; Terry Raymond
Cc: VWNC
Subject: Re: [vwnc] VW 7.8 - Unloadable definitions of ExternalInterface

Terry and Sam,

We have encountered the same problem (started when we moved from VW7.2
to VW7.7).  Also, the problem does not occur consistently.  I have
repeated a load >10 times successfully with Atomic Loading turned
on....on the 11th build we hit an unloadable definition?

We now just turn off Atomic Loading and have no issues with our
ExternalInterface subclasses.

Regards,

Igor

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Samuel S. Shuster
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 3:00 PM
To: Terry Raymond
Cc: VWNC
Subject: Re: [vwnc] VW 7.8 - Unloadable definitions of ExternalInterface

Terry:

> When I load one of our packages that has a couple of
> ExternalInterfaces one of the interfaces ends up with unloadable
definitions.
> If I reconcile and reload the package, the load is successful.
>
> Is there a fix/workaround for this. I don't want to be required to do
> a reload.

I would love to have an example of this, because we know it _could_
happen, but haven't been able to cobble together a way to reproduce it
ourselves.

There are several possible reasons:

One ExternalInteface is a subclass or sibling of another, and there is a
complex interrelationship between definitions in one to the other.

The "problem" ExternalInterface has deeply intertwined
definitions/typedefs/etc.

For ExternalInterfaces, we try two initial, and for any still unloadable
methods, one more pass at compiling the methods. If the
interrelationships are deeper than that, it could fail, only succeeding
once stuff is in the image, and the delta load you mention occurs.

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?





_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Igor:

> We have encountered the same problem (started when we moved from VW7.2 to VW7.7).  Also, the problem does not occur consistently.  I have repeated a load >10 times successfully with Atomic Loading turned on....on the 11th build we hit an unloadable definition?
>
> We now just turn off Atomic Loading and have no issues with our ExternalInterface subclasses.


Yeah, that's kind of what we have seen if/when we can reproduce it at all.

That said, something I'm working on now, which may not be ready till 7.9 (sorry) may fix it by doing a more careful unloadable recompile before giving up.

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, Store Project
Smalltalk Enables Success -- What Are YOU Using?





_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc