VW7.7 method fileout bug???
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If I select a method which has an override and do a file-out,
it files out first the override, then the original. If I then file this in, I end up with the wrong method -- the one that was overridden -- Dennis Smith +1 416.798.7948 Cherniak Software Development Corporation Fax: +1 416.798.0948 509-2001 Sheppard Avenue East [hidden email] Toronto, ON M2J 4Z8 sip:[hidden email] Canada http://www.CherniakSoftware.com Entrance off Yorkland Blvd south of Sheppard Ave east of the DVP _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Re: VW7.7 method fileout bug???
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Yes, this has been previously reported. It is AR 58868, and
is fixed in current 7.8 versions. A fix should be available through
support.
At 07:53 AM 2010-02-22, Dennis Smith wrote: If I select a method which has an override and do a file-out, --
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
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Re: VW7.7 method fileout bug???
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In reply to this post by Dennis smith-4
Alan,
we have seen a considerable number of bug reports for 7.7 recently on this list. I know that NC users are not paying customers and are not entitled to support. Nonetheless: Would it be possible to collect the more important patches in a "patch package" in the public repository, maybe updated once every two or three months (a la Microsoft patch day)? Maybe paying customers would appreciate something like this, too. I am thinking of patches for bugs which risk corruption of a Store repository or another database, patches for security problems, and for bugs which make VW unusable in certain environments, like the problem with the Czech QUERTY keyboard, or which generally leave a bad impression of VW and/or Smalltalk (locale problems, keyboard shortcuts not working etc.). Joachim Geidel > ----- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ----- > Von: Alan Knight > Gesendet: 22.02.10 15:34 Uhr > An: Dennis Smith, VWNC, > Betreff: Re: [vwnc] VW7.7 method fileout bug??? > > Yes, this has been previously reported. It is AR 58868, and is fixed in > current 7.8 versions. A fix should be available through support. > > At 07:53 AM 2010-02-22, Dennis Smith wrote: >> If I select a method which has an override and do a file-out, >> it files out first the override, then the original. >> >> If I then file this in, I end up with the wrong method -- the one that >> was overridden >> >> -- >> Dennis Smith +1 416.798.7948 >> Cherniak Software Development Corporation Fax: +1 416.798.0948 >> 509-2001 Sheppard Avenue East [hidden email] >> Toronto, ON M2J 4Z8 sip:[hidden email] >> Canada http://www.CherniakSoftware.com >> <http://www.cherniaksoftware.com/> >> Entrance off Yorkland Blvd south of Sheppard Ave east of the DVP >> >> _______________________________________________ >> vwnc mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc > > -- > Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk > [hidden email] > [hidden email] > http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Re: VW7.7 method fileout bug???
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In reply to this post by Dennis smith-4
I agree it would certainly be nice to have a separate repository maintained by Cincom with patches applicable to released versions of VisualWorks so they could be replicated and used by NC and C customers alike. Some could be blessed as safe for everyone and some could be blessed to only be used when specific issue is encountered, just like MSDN patches. RSS feed would be a nice touch. _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Re: VW7.7 method fileout bug???
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In reply to this post by Joachim Geidel
We don't normally accumulate multiple patches together,
unless we're going to make an outright patch release. However, individual
support resolutions can be found at
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/ResolutionsApplication/CincomResolutionsPortal
and they can be viewed by release. And yes, I know that thing is very
hard to find via google. When there are sufficiently major resolutions we
highlight them on the front page of that application, although they have
to rise to a fairly high level of severity and applicability before we do
that.
I'm not aware of anything at the moment that risks corruption of a Store repository or other database. We probably will highlight the Glorp login issue like that, although I can't speak for support. We have very little information at the moment about the Czech keyboard issue, certainly not enough to provide a resolution. I'm not sure if we have anything related to locale issues that would be suitable for a patch. There is a resolution there for keyboard shortcuts, though it's a moderately obscure case. At 01:50 PM 2010-02-22, Joachim Geidel wrote: Alan, --
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
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In reply to this post by Dennis smith-4
This customer would certainly
appreciate having patches under centralized version control, preferably in a
public Store. We currently publish each patch to our own repository as its
own package; I think I'd prefer that to a single "7.7 patches"
package.
Cincom used to have a page
"Cincom Smalltalk patches" on the developers' Wiki, which listed about 10-20
patches for each version by the time it had been released for a while. Now that
link takes us to the resolution portal, which lists about 150 resolutions for
7.6, plus 1 critical resolution for all versions up to 7.6 (the 7.6c VM).
It might be useful to have
something between "150" and "1", as there used to be. It would also be great if
the resolution app could have permanent URLs. A non-bold font for text and line
breaks between paragraphs would also help readability.
Cheers,
Steve From: [hidden email] on behalf of Alan Knight Sent: Mon 22/02/2010 21:59 To: Joachim Geidel Cc: VWNC Subject: Re: [vwnc] VW7.7 method fileout bug??? We don't normally accumulate multiple patches together, unless
we're going to make an outright patch release. However, individual support
resolutions can be found at http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/ResolutionsApplication/CincomResolutionsPortal
and they can be viewed by release. And yes, I know that thing is very hard to
find via google. When there are sufficiently major resolutions we highlight them
on the front page of that application, although they have to rise to a fairly
high level of severity and applicability before we do that.
I'm not aware of anything at the moment that risks corruption of a Store repository or other database. We probably will highlight the Glorp login issue like that, although I can't speak for support. We have very little information at the moment about the Czech keyboard issue, certainly not enough to provide a resolution. I'm not sure if we have anything related to locale issues that would be suitable for a patch. There is a resolution there for keyboard shortcuts, though it's a moderately obscure case. At 01:50 PM 2010-02-22, Joachim Geidel wrote: Alan, _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
Re: VW7.7 method fileout bug???
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Well, I can pass that along to the people who look after
patches. I note that that's not at all the way that we manage them
internally. We have things in Store, but they published as versions of
the packages that are affected, not as separate packages. But it's just a
small matter of programming :-)
It might be possible to categorize the resolutions according to how many users we expect might be interested in it, allowing some sort of filtering. But in general, if we cut down the number of resolutions available, I suspect we would just annoy the people who had a problem which didn't happen to be covered in the 10 or 20 we chose to put up publicly. We're aware of a good many possible improvements to that application, and they may get done at some point, but it depends on how busy the people on support are with support cases and other work. At 06:22 PM 2010-02-22, Steven Kelly wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;This customer would certainly appreciate having patches under centralized version control, preferably in a public Store. We currently publish each patch to our own repository as its own package; I think I'd prefer that to a single "7.7 patches" package. Cincom used to have a page "Cincom Smalltalk patches" on the developers' Wiki, which listed about 10-20 patches for each version by the time it had been released for a while. Now that link takes us to the resolution portal, which lists about 150 resolutions for 7.6, plus 1 critical resolution for all versions up to 7.6 (the 7.6c VM). It might be useful to have something between "150" and "1", as there used to be. It would also be great if the resolution app could have permanent URLs. A non-bold font for text and line breaks between paragraphs would also help readability. Cheers, Steve From: [hidden email] on behalf of Alan Knight Sent: Mon 22/02/2010 21:59 To: Joachim Geidel Cc: VWNC Subject: Re: [vwnc] VW7.7 method fileout bug??? We don't normally accumulate multiple patches together, unless we're going to make an outright patch release. However, individual support resolutions can be found at http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/ResolutionsApplication/CincomResolutionsPortal and they can be viewed by release. And yes, I know that thing is very hard to find via google. When there are sufficiently major resolutions we highlight them on the front page of that application, although they have to rise to a fairly high level of severity and applicability before we do that. I'm not aware of anything at the moment that risks corruption of a Store repository or other database. We probably will highlight the Glorp login issue like that, although I can't speak for support. We have very little information at the moment about the Czech keyboard issue, certainly not enough to provide a resolution. I'm not sure if we have anything related to locale issues that would be suitable for a patch. There is a resolution there for keyboard shortcuts, though it's a moderately obscure case. At 01:50 PM 2010-02-22, Joachim Geidel wrote: Alan, -- Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk [hidden email] [hidden email] http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc --
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
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Re: VW7.7 method fileout bug???
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In reply to this post by Steven Kelly
Also, what's the benefit you see in having them under
version control if they're to be separate packages which we would expect
to only have one version each?
At 06:22 PM 2010-02-22, Steven Kelly wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;This customer would certainly appreciate having patches under centralized version control, preferably in a public Store. We currently publish each patch to our own repository as its own package; I think I'd prefer that to a single "7.7 patches" package. Cincom used to have a page "Cincom Smalltalk patches" on the developers' Wiki, which listed about 10-20 patches for each version by the time it had been released for a while. Now that link takes us to the resolution portal, which lists about 150 resolutions for 7.6, plus 1 critical resolution for all versions up to 7.6 (the 7.6c VM). It might be useful to have something between "150" and "1", as there used to be. It would also be great if the resolution app could have permanent URLs. A non-bold font for text and line breaks between paragraphs would also help readability. Cheers, Steve From: [hidden email] on behalf of Alan Knight Sent: Mon 22/02/2010 21:59 To: Joachim Geidel Cc: VWNC Subject: Re: [vwnc] VW7.7 method fileout bug??? We don't normally accumulate multiple patches together, unless we're going to make an outright patch release. However, individual support resolutions can be found at http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/ResolutionsApplication/CincomResolutionsPortal and they can be viewed by release. And yes, I know that thing is very hard to find via google. When there are sufficiently major resolutions we highlight them on the front page of that application, although they have to rise to a fairly high level of severity and applicability before we do that. I'm not aware of anything at the moment that risks corruption of a Store repository or other database. We probably will highlight the Glorp login issue like that, although I can't speak for support. We have very little information at the moment about the Czech keyboard issue, certainly not enough to provide a resolution. I'm not sure if we have anything related to locale issues that would be suitable for a patch. There is a resolution there for keyboard shortcuts, though it's a moderately obscure case. At 01:50 PM 2010-02-22, Joachim Geidel wrote: Alan, -- Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk [hidden email] [hidden email] http://www.cincom.com/smalltalk _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc --
Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
_______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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In reply to this post by Dennis smith-4
The reasons to have the patches as separate packages, rather
than / as well as in the normal version history in the dev repository are: 1)
Each patch would be a patch to the 7.7. base, rather than to
some intermediate stage of the development of 7.8. Loading a 7.8 version, or
even just the diffs from that version to its parents, often won’t work
properly in 7.7. (I know support’s patches are to a particular base release,
but the current Store versions you mention aren’t) 2)
Patches often affect several packages, but we want to load each
as a single unit. The reasons to have the patches as separate packages, rather
than / as well as zipped files: 3)
Can find patches using normal VW mechanisms, i.e. unloaded
packages with a certain name (AR* or Res*), or searching for versions of a
particular method. 4)
Can load patches using normal VW build mechanisms, i.e. Store,
and automate loading of desired set of patches (e.g. with a local bundle . Admittedly
this probably requires the ability to specify prereqs or inclusion from a
specific repository – which would be GREAT!) 5)
Can express prereqs (e.g. to other patches) using normal VW
mechanisms (unlike .st files) 6)
Sometimes there are indeed multiple versions of patches, and
almost certainly there are versions internally before general release (e.g.
first cut is just the set of version diffs from the 7.8 dev stream’s
packages, next version is backported to work in 7.7, release version is tested
for compatibility with other patches) The argument that “we would just annoy people by choosing
the wrong set of packages” isn’t particularly strong. That’s
part of offering any service: which features you add in the next version of VW,
or how much effort you place on different platform VMs. You have to pick the
important ones, and of course you’re capable of doing that sufficiently
accurately for it to be useful – it doesn’t need to be perfect. I
for one am happy with the choice and quality of current patches, and the choice
of the subset that used to be made more public in earlier versions: it’s
the current discovery and delivery mechanisms that need tweaking. Obviously it’s all work, but it doesn’t take long to
remove bold from a CSS file. James Robertson’s Seaside blog app added
permanent URLs in 3 minutes 25 seconds: http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/cincom/blogView?content=seaside_tutorial11 http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView?entry=3400736789
And it’s easy to write a script that publishes every
current patch file to a suitable Store repository, with its text file contents
as the package comment (although admittedly that change would also require
communication to others and a change to processes to get new patches added,
which does take time. Unless of course you automate it in a background process
like the Store RSS feed). All the best, Steve From: Alan Knight
[mailto:[hidden email]] Well, I can pass that along to the people who look after
patches. I note that that's not at all the way that we manage them internally.
We have things in Store, but they published as versions of the packages that
are affected, not as separate packages. But it's just a small matter of programming
:-) It might be possible to categorize the resolutions according
to how many users we expect might be interested in it, allowing some sort of
filtering. But in general, if we cut down the number of resolutions available,
I suspect we would just annoy the people who had a problem which didn't happen
to be covered in the 10 or 20 we chose to put up publicly.
Content-Type:
multipart/alternative; From:
[hidden email] on behalf of Alan Knight Alan,
-- Alan Knight [|], Engineering Manager, Cincom Smalltalk _______________________________________________ vwnc mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc |
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