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VisualWorks and Undockable Toolbars - A contradictory combination?

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Gruenewald, Tom
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VisualWorks and Undockable Toolbars - A contradictory combination?

Gruenewald, Tom

Hello forum.

The main window of our application is composed of two parts. A navigation bar on the left side. And a CAD view on the right side.
Simultaneously we use several sub windows to display further information. This includes things like robot status, event viewers and result protocols.
The robot status window can be also used as a software based emergency shutdown, beside the existing hardware based safety system.

Unfortunately the information windows may distract users from the main window. Or they block the user's view to the main window. Or if the user maximizes the main window, all the information windows will be covered - what is also an undesired state.

Now the idea is, to organize the information windows as a kind of undockabel toolbar.

If we disregard all software limits, which are maybe given by the VisualWorks development environment, the preferred solution would look like this.

  1. An additional toolbar located on the right side of the main window.
  2. The user can press the toolbar buttons to show or hide information.
    The information is displayed in several windows which are docked on the window frame (or toolbar). So whenever the main window is moved or resized, the information windows will be relocated.
  3. The user can press the toolbar buttons to execute actions (e.g. an emergency shutdown).
  4. The user can drag a docked information window (by using its mouse) to detach the window from the window frame. So it may can be arranged on a second exiting monitor.
  5. The user can drag an independent information window nearby the main window frame, so it will be docked to the main window.
  6. The user can press the toolbar buttons to show or hide independent information windows.

And now the question:
Is there any chance to implement that kind of undockable toolbar in a reasonable amount of time?
Has anyone of you experience with this kind of programming? Is there maybe a existing parcel for undockabel toolbars?

In my opinion the main problem is the part with the docked windows. Hiding and unhiding windows is no big deal. But to make a window a part of another window frame might be very hard to do with VisualWorks. (And other development environments too.) Especially when they are user-specific located.

Any recommendation?

Thank you for your answers.

Best regards,
Tom Grünewald

________

Carl Zeiss Industrielle Messtechnik GmbH
Softwareentwicklung/Software Development

T o m G r ü n e w a l d

73446 Oberkochen, Germany
tel: +49.7364.20-8541
fax: +49.7364.20-4800
email: [hidden email]
http://www.zeiss.de/imt

Carl Zeiss Industrielle Messtechnik GmbH
Carl–Zeiss–Straße 22, 73447 Oberkochen
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Dr. Hermann Gerlinger
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Rainer Ohnheiser, Felix Hoben, Axel Jaeger
Sitz der Gesellschaft: 73446 Oberkochen, Deutschland
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Ulm, HRB 501561
USt–IdNr.: DE 811 515 346

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Steven Kelly
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Re: VisualWorks and Undockable Toolbars - A contradictorycombination?

Steven Kelly
It would be great if VW had dockable toolbars, and I imagine it's perfectly possible - just a fair bit of work.
 
We did a poor imitation of this back in VW 2.0, just using a separate window for the toolbar and VW's parent/slave relationship. Parent/slave forwards window events from the parent window to the slave window, and I think those could include move and resize, so it should be possible to make the toolbar window move with the right hand edge of the main window.
 
The most annoying thing was the large area taken up by the window title bar and other decoration, but the IRC client (Typeless) showed how to make windows without their decorations - at least on Windows. And the second most annoying part was that the toolbar was always a separate window, i.e. not dockable.
 
In VW 3.0 we moved to having our own areas of the toolbar, and changing the toolbar layout algorithm to allow it to split over multiple lines, either just wrapping or with "hard line breaks". The toolbar areas could be turned on and off from a View | Toolbar | ... menu. Despite being implemented as a nasty composite of hacks and overrides, that's worked well for us and supports all platforms.
 
Steve
 
 

 
From: [hidden email] on behalf of Gruenewald, Tom
Sent: Tue 12/07/2011 16:11
To: vwnc
Subject: [vwnc] VisualWorks and Undockable Toolbars - A contradictorycombination?

Hello forum.

The main window of our application is composed of two parts. A navigation bar on the left side. And a CAD view on the right side.
Simultaneously we use several sub windows to display further information. This includes things like robot status, event viewers and result protocols.
The robot status window can be also used as a software based emergency shutdown, beside the existing hardware based safety system.

Unfortunately the information windows may distract users from the main window. Or they block the user's view to the main window. Or if the user maximizes the main window, all the information windows will be covered - what is also an undesired state.

Now the idea is, to organize the information windows as a kind of undockabel toolbar.

If we disregard all software limits, which are maybe given by the VisualWorks development environment, the preferred solution would look like this.

  1. An additional toolbar located on the right side of the main window.
  2. The user can press the toolbar buttons to show or hide information.
    The information is displayed in several windows which are docked on the window frame (or toolbar). So whenever the main window is moved or resized, the information windows will be relocated.
  3. The user can press the toolbar buttons to execute actions (e.g. an emergency shutdown).
  4. The user can drag a docked information window (by using its mouse) to detach the window from the window frame. So it may can be arranged on a second exiting monitor.
  5. The user can drag an independent information window nearby the main window frame, so it will be docked to the main window.
  6. The user can press the toolbar buttons to show or hide independent information windows.

And now the question:
Is there any chance to implement that kind of undockable toolbar in a reasonable amount of time?
Has anyone of you experience with this kind of programming? Is there maybe a existing parcel for undockabel toolbars?

In my opinion the main problem is the part with the docked windows. Hiding and unhiding windows is no big deal. But to make a window a part of another window frame might be very hard to do with VisualWorks. (And other development environments too.) Especially when they are user-specific located.

Any recommendation?

Thank you for your answers.

Best regards,
Tom Grünewald

________

Carl Zeiss Industrielle Messtechnik GmbH
Softwareentwicklung/Software Development

T o m G r ü n e w a l d

73446 Oberkochen, Germany
tel: +49.7364.20-8541
fax: +49.7364.20-4800
email: [hidden email]
http://www.zeiss.de/imt

Carl Zeiss Industrielle Messtechnik GmbH
Carl–Zeiss–Straße 22, 73447 Oberkochen
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Dr. Hermann Gerlinger
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Rainer Ohnheiser, Felix Hoben, Axel Jaeger
Sitz der Gesellschaft: 73446 Oberkochen, Deutschland
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Ulm, HRB 501561
USt–IdNr.: DE 811 515 346

----------------------------------------
This message is intended for a particular addressee only and may contain business or company secrets. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the message immediately. Any use of this email, including saving, publishing, copying, replication or forwarding of the message or the contents is not permitted.


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Madhu-21
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Re: VisualWorks and Undockable Toolbars - A contradictorycombination?

Madhu-21
In reply to this post by Gruenewald, Tom
Hi,
 
If your application is on windows only then you could try out this ActiveX control:
 
 
We use this control in our application (developed in ObjectStudio) and most of the work like dragging the docking pane, detaching it from main window, attaching to the main window, hiding/showing docking pane is already done for you. You just have to provide the window handle that needs to be docked and set properties according to your requirements.
 
Regards,
Madhu.

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 3:11 PM
Subject: [vwnc] VisualWorks and Undockable Toolbars - A contradictorycombination?

Hello forum.

The main window of our application is composed of two parts. A navigation bar on the left side. And a CAD view on the right side.
Simultaneously we use several sub windows to display further information. This includes things like robot status, event viewers and result protocols.
The robot status window can be also used as a software based emergency shutdown, beside the existing hardware based safety system.

Unfortunately the information windows may distract users from the main window. Or they block the user's view to the main window. Or if the user maximizes the main window, all the information windows will be covered - what is also an undesired state.

Now the idea is, to organize the information windows as a kind of undockabel toolbar.

If we disregard all software limits, which are maybe given by the VisualWorks development environment, the preferred solution would look like this.

  1. An additional toolbar located on the right side of the main window.
  2. The user can press the toolbar buttons to show or hide information.
    The information is displayed in several windows which are docked on the window frame (or toolbar). So whenever the main window is moved or resized, the information windows will be relocated.
  3. The user can press the toolbar buttons to execute actions (e.g. an emergency shutdown).
  4. The user can drag a docked information window (by using its mouse) to detach the window from the window frame. So it may can be arranged on a second exiting monitor.
  5. The user can drag an independent information window nearby the main window frame, so it will be docked to the main window.
  6. The user can press the toolbar buttons to show or hide independent information windows.

And now the question:
Is there any chance to implement that kind of undockable toolbar in a reasonable amount of time?
Has anyone of you experience with this kind of programming? Is there maybe a existing parcel for undockabel toolbars?

In my opinion the main problem is the part with the docked windows. Hiding and unhiding windows is no big deal. But to make a window a part of another window frame might be very hard to do with VisualWorks. (And other development environments too.) Especially when they are user-specific located.

Any recommendation?

Thank you for your answers.

Best regards,
Tom Grünewald

________

Carl Zeiss Industrielle Messtechnik GmbH
Softwareentwicklung/Software Development

T o m G r ü n e w a l d

73446 Oberkochen, Germany
tel: +49.7364.20-8541
fax: +49.7364.20-4800
email: [hidden email]
http://www.zeiss.de/imt

Carl Zeiss Industrielle Messtechnik GmbH
Carl–Zeiss–Straße 22, 73447 Oberkochen
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Dr. Hermann Gerlinger
Geschäftsführer: Dr. Rainer Ohnheiser, Felix Hoben, Axel Jaeger
Sitz der Gesellschaft: 73446 Oberkochen, Deutschland
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Ulm, HRB 501561
USt–IdNr.: DE 811 515 346

----------------------------------------
This message is intended for a particular addressee only and may contain business or company secrets. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the message immediately. Any use of this email, including saving, publishing, copying, replication or forwarding of the message or the contents is not permitted.

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[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

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Runar Jordahl
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Re: VisualWorks and Undockable Toolbars - A contradictory combination?

Runar Jordahl
In reply to this post by Gruenewald, Tom

Sorry for going off topic, but in my mind toolbars have a bit of 1990s feel. Just look at how ( http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jensenh/ ) Microsoft had to leave these ideas in Office. The trend is going towards a single window for working with one "entity". By "entity" I mean for example a document. So each document typically gets its own OS window. Especially Microsoft Office’s ability to dock/undock and configure toolbars was a big support burden.


I think this trend fits VisualWorks: Trying to implement good support for docking toolbars like Office 2003 will be hard. Implementing a Ribbon-like interface will be a lot easier.


Our product continues to use standard toolbars (non-configurable). I want to get rid of them, not enhance them. We did some specialization to creation of application windows on Windows. They are found here:

http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/publicRepository/Epigent%20Application%20Window%20Styles.html


Runar Jordahl

blog.epigent.com


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